thinkin bout getting into reloading my own...

[1shot2kills]

Awesome, Thanks Fn.

i trust that there is a lot of information and knowledge to be gathered from people in this forum. and im wanting to learn what i can, whether its reading old posts or just starting new topics

Do you own a Five-seveN? I'm trying to find someone with one i can shoot on a trip to the range. ive heard awesome things about them. I just wanna make my own opinion.

ahh new gun to reload for too... i just got a 20g break barrel shotgun too . i was wondering if there any way to reload shot shells with your standard reloading press or is it necessary to go with like a MEC shot shell specific press?

if these deals on firearms keep fallin in my lap i dont know what im going to do lol.

And Thanks for having me on TFL...Rock on

[dmazur]

Note what this link says -

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadg...hot%20only.pdf

This is an extremely sensitive caliber, not one tolerant to slight errors in reloading such as the .45ACP. If you're going to reload this one, you have to pay attention to everything and get it right!

Here's more info on the 5.7x28 -

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...by28mm_200811/

In re shotshell reloading, I believe it takes a special press. There are lots more steps involved than for brass cartridges. The press I have for reloading .410 requires the operator to insert a hull and a wad (at different stations) for each handle pull, but performs repriming, powder charge and shot charge, and crimping.

Also, the interior dimensions of hulls isn't an industry standard, so the "recipe" for reloading a shotshell can vary from one hull type to another.

Crimp and wad column height must be just right, or you won't develop the velocity you want.

And, unlike brass cartridge reloading, there's no real "working up loads" and watching for pressure signs. If you experiment with shotshell reloading, you're kind of off the charts in more ways than one.

[GeauxTide]

ok while i can see those arguments being made and how the largely gun and ammo unknowing public can believe that or wut ever, i look at it like this

After reading your posts the past 20 minutes, I have a headache down to my buttocks. About the only thing I could surmise was reloading for self defense. Negative.

[1shot2kills]

wow.... are you saying i could die if i experiment with shotshell recipes? that off the map thing kinda scared me

so would you say maybe getting used to regular brass reloading for a minute and having a few successful rounds with that before getting into the more intricate shotshells? that sounds like it might be a good idea... though it really doesn't sound too much different. with shot shells you have to worry about the wadding depth and stuff kind of like you have to worry about OAL and how deep the projectile is seating in brass reloading... is that a reasonable thing to say?

Wow that was pretty interesting i don't think id ever "experiment" with that recipe. i'd be checking like every powder charge just to make sure i wasnt going to die seriously id be paranoid.

oh and a quick question: ok im a big fan of muzzle flash, in reloading is there any way to increase it? i was thinking maybe using like a slightly slower burning powder mixed with standard burn rate powder or something. just thought it would be sweet to up the muzzle flash on a few pracitice rounds for those night time shooting sessions at the farm . sorry im a nerd :P

[1shot2kills]

Geauxtide: After reading your posts the past 20 minutes, I have a headache down to my buttocks. About the only thing I could surmise was reloading for self defense. Negative.

lol are you saying im a pain in the @$$? jk yeah sometimes i dont make sense to myself... though its far fetched to say im a pain in my buttocks im glad that you gave it a good solid ole 'scout try

[Crashbox]

Well, I'm gonna start getting into reloading myself, mainly so I can attempt to clone SD ammo for practice. I just received my Hornady LNL AP a couple of hours ago and I've got everything except all the brass I want hehehe...

I have found that whenever venturing into previously unsurveyed territory such as I'm doing now it really pays to read, read, read and then read some more. I've bought several books so far and have done a lot of cautious reading on the 'net. It seems to me that if I am going to produce the highest-quality ammunition for myself I must diligently prepare my reloading station and be prepared as well- much like painting a house, except reloading must be done ***to the letter*** and with absolute undivided attention to what you are doing. If I'm going to be picking rutabagas with a stepladder I do not want it due to carelessness at my bench. In this discipline, complacency and inattention kills.

Anyway, I plan on reloading .357 Magnum brass with Alliant 2400 and whatever my Lyman Reloading Manual recommends as a minimum, then go from there. I figure the 2400 is a good powder to start with for several reasons, it did well in Lyman tests with the .357 and it is rather slow-burning which makes it voluminous, thus minimizing the chance of double-charging (but I didn't get a Powder Cop for no reason!). In addition, I feel it is very important to weigh a certain percentage of samples even if the Powder Cop is employed- you can NEVER be too cautious when dealing with explosives!!!!!!! I'll probably sample one in five or one in ten, I ain't sure yet.

[dmazur]

are you saying i could die if i experiment with shotshell recipes? that off the map thing kinda scared me.

Well, I'm certainly not a shotshell reloading expert, but I believe I do understand the basics of reloading. As shotshell hulls can vary in volume (for the same external size), you can't substitute components without some risk. This is very much the same as using metallic cartridge load data for a different caliber, assuming it must be "close".

Here's something from one publisher of shotshell load data - (and they want you to acknowledge reading it before proceeding to their site to download data!)

Shotshell Reloading Data
To view reloading data, you first need to read our warnings and disclaimers:

WARNING: Where data contained here, on labels and in catalogs and booklets list specific components, no changes or substitutions for these components can be made, except substitutions of shot sizes that will equate to the same weight charge listed, without risking significant changes in the level of ballistic performance and/or safety of the loads shown. Follow loading data exactly and do not substitute components. We make no warranties express or implied, limited or full. Failure to comply with these and other standards of reloading may result in accidents with serious injury and/or death to the shooter and/or bystanders.

No, I wasn't implying that loading shotshells was more intricate than metallic cartridge reloading, although there are a few more components involved. My understanding is what I said, there aren't any warning signs. Warning signs in metallic reloading (such as flattened primers, difficult extraction, etc.) are fairly well-documented, though nobody can predict exactly when they might occur in a given load/rifle combination. Thus the recommendation to "start low and work up".

The cautions on 5.7x28 were motivated by a similar concern. It is a "sensitive" caliber, which means it won't tolerate even small errors in the reloading process that a more "forgiving" caliber might. I'm referring to such things as bullet seating depth, headspace, and powder charge. As the 5.7x28 is a bottleneck cartridge, you're dealing with the same problems as reloading for a rifle. (Cartridge headspace, neck stretch, trimming and all that.)

Most reloaders consider reloading pistol cartridges the easiest, followed by reloading rifle cartridges. And, due to the requirement for absolute reliability in chambering at speed, reloading for gas-operated semi-auto rifles as the most difficult.

In re the "muzzle flash" question, about all I can think of is to shoot a cartridge in something with a shorter barrel than it is intended for. Short-barreled .44 Mag revolvers are a good example, as are the various AR-15 pistols chambered for 5.56 NATO.

I'm not sure there is a "high muzzle flash" rating on the powder mfgrs sites, but I've seen "low muzzle flash" billed as a positive thing. Many who reload for self-defense are concerned about muzzle flash as a distracting, blinding event and try to minimize it. Target shooters who shoot in daylight conditions only may not be as concerned.

i was thinking maybe using like a slightly slower burning powder mixed with standard burn rate powder or something

Well, all I can say is that there is a complete lack of understanding going on here. You haven't done your reading yet, so it's to be expected. NEVER EVER MIX POWDER TYPES! (caps intentional...) Even if you carefully measure everything, as you say you're going to do, you have created a complete unknown by mixing. There is no data for your mixture! So, it doesn't matter how careful you are in measuring, you have no data to follow when you weigh the charge...

Good luck with all of this. The reloading manuals cover a lot of what you're asking, in around 100 pages or less. It isn't hard to read, but I found it quite challenging to understand.

[1shot2kills]

yeah i figured mixing powders probably was'nt the best idea because of the fact that i haven't read anything about anybody else doing it, but it was just a thought in the muzzle flash idea if there really isn't a way to do it thats cool i just thought it would be pretty sweet to have a huge flame shooting out of my muzzle at night when im at my aunts house in a "not for defense" target shooting session, or for a video recorded shooting session you know what i mean? i can see how muzzle flash can be a problem in high stress situations where your life or some one elses is at stake and you need to see everything that is going on. IE why a desert eagle wouldnt really make a good SD weapon for night time purposes

I didn't mean intricate is a way of saying harder, but more like you said, you have more things you have to be mindful of, details and everything being at least "close" to whats prescribed in the books.

i can definitely see how rifle cartridges could be considered a little harder or "finicky" i mean your dealing with projectiles that are a little longer than those in handguns. i can see how a little issue of maybe a slightly bent case neck, or a distorted neck could put a hurt on accuracy and cause chambering issues so you really have to keep your brass in good shape. not to mention theres more of a likely hood of crushing the case walls and messing it up that way. make sure you have your powder measure as close as you can possibly get it to your preferred amount, personally id probably error on the safe side and have the measure be slightly under what i want then to have it be slightly over. and keep your powder cop or your worm light on so you can make sure the load is there so your sure it will go bang every time you pull that trigger so you dont have to dig a dud out in the middle of your target practice session, or lose your life because his went bang and yours just went click in a SD situation.

basically heres what im thinking, figure out a process that works for you get it down to a ritual and keep it there. make sure you do everything, everytime. whether you clean up your cases just after you get back from your shooting session and then prime them and store your cases primed. its a good idea so your sure that everything works properly and you can depend on your ammo do what its supposed to when you pull the trigger. does that make sense?

you're right i havent read any books that i went out and bought yet, most of its been just what i could find online and print out on my trusty printer. do i make any sense with what im saying or should i just forget what i know and go buy some books and start relearning? cause i don't wanna go in to it being fully retarded i wanna have some kind of good idea of what should be going on when i get started here in a couple days or so. got my order coming here today or tomorrow, but i will let it sit for a while if i have no confidence in what im doing, like im gonna be doing anyways while i read manuals and the couple books i have coming with my equipment and supplies

[dmazur]

The reason why rifle is more difficult isn't because they are longer, other than that makes for more resizing effort and requires case lube. It's because you have to worry about adjusting the resizing die for headspace. As brass work-hardens, or for different mfgrs with different brass thickness, you may have to adjust this to stay in spec. And, as bottleneck cartridges typically get longer with each reloading cycle, they have to be trimmed to length to keep the brass from being "crimped" by the rifling, causing a dangerous overpressure. Bullets have to be seated to the correct depth, of course, but you're also dealing with case issues.

With pistol, the main concern is seating bullets so they don't hit the lands. Pistol brass doesn't get any longer, so if they are the correct length to start with, you're good.

And, yes, I agree with the stickies. You need to read a reloading manual. The first few chapters explain the process much better than the bits you can get off the Internet. There are usually pictures that show "good" vs "bad" reloaded rounds, as well as typical case defects that you might encounter. General reloading safety is addressed by most of these manuals, too.

Reloading may be kind of like learning to drive, perhaps. You can't get experience without driving, but you'd better proceed with extreme caution the first few trips. Keep them close to home, keep the speeds down, and stay off the freeway. Eventually, you get the hang of steering, braking and turning and you make progress.

The reason why you read about getting an experienced reloader to "coach" you is like getting someone to help you learn to drive. Can you do it without an instructor? Sure. It's more difficult, but it can be done.

All I was trying to express was the need for caution. The "how do I make a big muzzle flash and powder mixing" question sounds an awful lot like a new driver asking to take the car out and see how fast it will go on the freeway...not a good idea, but especially not a good idea for a beginning driver.

And, what recommendation do you make to the beginning driver who doesn't really understand how much there is to learn, because he hasn't read any driver's manuals yet?

[Winterhawk56]

[DWARREN123]

Out of about 10,000 reloads I have had 3 not go off even after multiple strikes. 5 rounds for 3,700 rounds of factory ammo.
I trust my hand loaded ammo as much as factory and believe they will do what I reloaded them for.

[twice barrel]

To make it short and simple; reloading is easy as long as you're not in a hurry, understand what it is you are doing and trying to accomplish, and you pay attention to what you're doing.

Shotshell reloading for me was A-1 simple.

Getting a 22 Hornet load that would group 5-shots under a dime at 100 yds each and every time?...that was a booger! Without handloading and systematically eliminating variables it wasn't going to happen with my rifle.

But I feel reloading is best done by a detail oriented person. You don't need to purchase expensive equipment but you do need equipment in good working order. And while a good load reference is important you don't need 10 of them. Also, don't waste too much time talking about it. Until you actually do it all the talk in the world won't give you the appreciation of what folks attempt to convey to you online.

Acquire some gear, set up shop, select and study a good load reference, and set to it. Sure, you'll goof up ever once in a while but if you are concientous about it you'll ask intelligent questions and odds are you'll know an intelligent answer when you hear it.

Regards,

TB

[Shane Tuttle]

Holy Cow! How in the world did this thread slip past me I just don't know.

Closed due to getting a headache the size of Texas trying decipher the botched English...