380/32 Comparison

Roland Thunder · May 20, 2016, 10:21 AM

I have a Kahr PM9 that I carry (when I carry). I had been thinking about selling and getting something lighter and smaller. So, I put together this matrix comparing the various 380/32 pistols.

It looks to me like I would have to settle for a Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP (or something else not in this comparison) if I want to go smaller/lighter. I love the looks of the Walther PPK and CZ-83 but I would be giving up power for something bigger with less power. Single action cocked and locked are not an option for me.

As a disclaimer, the specs came from the following website:
http://whichgun.com/pistols/

This is a nice website for comparing gun specs.

PSP · May 20, 2016, 11:10 AM

If you want a small .32 or .380, don't forget Seecamp. Much small than the Kel Tec or Ruger. Very reliable and well made.

link to size comparisons.
http://seecamp.com/overlays.htm

tallball · May 20, 2016, 12:34 PM

That's why I ended up with the P3AT. I wanted the smallest and lightest 380.

ifithitu · May 20, 2016, 01:44 PM

I like the BG 380 & G42 380,and I keep them loaded with hollow points.Can't speak for others,but I thank they are the best.

Bill DeShivs · May 20, 2016, 03:55 PM

"Power" is not all it's purported to be.
Having a gun is the most important thing.

Cheapshooter · May 20, 2016, 04:04 PM

Quote:

If you want a small .32 or .380, don't forget Seecamp. Much small than the Kel Tec or Ruger. Very reliable and well made.

Almost 50% heavier, and twice the price of the three best choices on the list.
For a truly small, and light, easy to carry pocket gun, stick with the Kel-Tec P32, P3at, or Ruger LCP.

dahermit · May 20, 2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Power" is not all it's purported to be.
Having a gun is the most important thing.

Yup...that is why I carry a .22 rimfire short.

TailGator · May 20, 2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Single action cocked and locked are not an option for me.

Darn, took the wind out of my sails. I can wax poetic about the Sig P238.

cjwils · May 20, 2016, 04:41 PM

At my local indoor range, I have rented and fired several light weight double-action-only 380's with blow back actions, and I hated them all. Nasty trigger pulls and nasty recoil. That forced me to consider single-action-only, such as Sig 238 or Colt Mustang; even though I am not totally comfortable with carrying cocked and locked. Or to consider single/double, such as the Walther PPK or its clones. I have not made a final decision yet, but I am certain that I will not be choosing a double-action-only. I might go back to my S&W J frame revolver for my concealed carry gun.

Cheapshooter · May 20, 2016, 05:25 PM

Quote:

At my local indoor range, I have rented and fired several light weight double-action-only 380's with blow back actions

Then you haven't shot a P3at, or LCP!
They are locked breech, tilting barrel delayed blowback. Just like the Sig 238.

Quote:

Or to consider single/double, such as the Walther PPK or its clones.

That one is a blow back action.

AK103K · May 20, 2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

"Power" is not all it's purported to be.
Having a gun is the most important thing.

True.

And having a more realistic gun as the primary is higher on the list.

Quote:

If you want a small .32 or .380, don't forget Seecamp. Much small than the Kel Tec or Ruger. Very reliable and well made.

Almost 50% heavier, and twice the price of the three best choices on the list.
For a truly small, and light, easy to carry pocket gun, stick with the Kel-Tec P32, P3at, or Ruger LCP.

Ive had a number of "small" back up guns over the years, including a P32 and LCP, and the Seecamps are still the one the others wish they were.

As far as Im concerned, the Seecamp is the one that sets the bar, and so far, none of the others have beat it.

Quote:

Nasty trigger pulls and nasty recoil. That forced me to consider single-action-only, such as Sig 238 or Colt Mustang; even though I am not totally comfortable with carrying cocked and locked.

You may also want to consider the Glock 42's. Very soft shooters and as accurate as their bigger siblings out to about as far as you can shoot those.

One of the "zack" type trigger guard holsters makes them more palatable to those who are Glock phobic. Would also work for the P238, etc too.

Quote:

That one is a blow back action.

Most of the .380's are blowback. Some more comfortable to shoot than others. Those are usually on the larger side, and with better grips.

deerslayer303 · May 20, 2016, 05:42 PM

The CZ82 IS a blow back designed DA / SA pistol chambered in 9X18 Makarov. It can be carried in the cocked and locked fashion or in the DA mode (hammer down) first round will be DA all subsequent shots will be in SA mode. While I love my CZ82 to no end, I would strike it from your list due mainly to ammo availability. And most small 380's ARE NOT blow back. The LCP, P3AT, TCP, etc are locked breach. While your CZ82, 83, PPQ, Makarovs, etc are blow back design. With all that said if you want a small, light, highly concealable pistol you're gonna get some recoil to go along with it. It's a trade off. I don't like firing a bunch of rounds through the TCP but it's not a range hound and I love carrying it.

AK103K · May 20, 2016, 05:48 PM

Quote:

And most small 380's ARE NOT blow back.

Thats news to me. "Most" of the .380's Ive owned and shot over the years were blowback.

deerslayer303 · May 20, 2016, 05:51 PM

Depends on which ones you're talking about. The small 380's are locked while some of the bigger ones are.

Cheapshooter · May 20, 2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Most of the .380's are blowback. Some more comfortable to shoot than others. Those are usually on the larger side, and with better grips.

Over ten years ago, prior to the Kel-Tec P3at.
The ones most popular now are all delayed blow back,locked breech, tilting barrel actions. That is what enables them to be so small! The larger,newer designs like the Ruger LC380, based on the LC9, the Glock G42, and the Walther P380 to name a few are all locked breech,delayed blow back, not blow back. The difference is the tilting barrel vs the fixedbarrel of tthe Walther PPK, CZ 83, PA63, and other bigger, older designs.

Cheapshooter · May 20, 2016, 06:01 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQIPMYgP6E

Bart Noir · May 20, 2016, 07:01 PM

Locked breach pistols are most certainly not delayed blowback.

They use a design called short recoil. The slide and barrel are locked together as they recoil and then the barrel disconnects from the slide, which continues back while the barrel stops.

The term long recoil is used for those where the barrel travels back more than the length of a cartridge. At least I think that it what separates short from long recoil guns. Long recoil is not a common design in pistols.

Bart Noir

franco45 · May 20, 2016, 07:14 PM

If you're happy with your PM9 why not consider a Kahr 380? There is the deluxe model P380, the budget CW380 and the slightly larger budget CT380. Kahr triggers are very consistent across the product line and the bar dot sights are too.

briandg · May 20, 2016, 08:23 PM

I believe that you should ignore the .32. I draw my personal line there, I don't think that a .32 reaches a level of damage that is acceptable for a six round handgun a big knife can do as much damage, maybe more.

Either the lcp, the bodyguard, or some other compact .380 will stand far above the .32, at a very similar size. The bodyguard and lcp are not blowback, you should avoid blowback operated guns, imo.

Even the tiny .380 pistols carry seven rounds, can fire top quality ammo. It's not a 9 or 38, but the tiny little thing will be fine for deep cover when you aren't willing to carry larger.

ttarp · May 20, 2016, 08:46 PM

Knives do way more damage than most handgun calibers, I think .32 is ok, .25 is where I draw the line.

Bill DeShivs · May 20, 2016, 09:02 PM

In the real world, there isn't much difference in .32 and .380 (or .25!)

Knives only work at contact distance. Any of the above calibers will work from much further away.

tirod · May 21, 2016, 07:59 AM

The point of the smaller gun is more comfort in carry.

The OP mentioned he had a PM9 - yet the CW380 is yet to be mentioned as a lighter weight smaller gun.

Compared to the LCP:
It's the same size package overall.
It's within a fraction of an ounce in unloaded weight.
Same magazine capacity but a Plus 1 kit is available.
It uses a Browning style ramp lock up, making it pleasant to shoot.
Kahr trigger at 6 pounds and easy to pull, plus it's the same as a Glock 19 in travel, ie not that long.
It has a slide hold open designed to be used to chamber the first round in the mag, which means NOT having to rack it against a loaded mag column.

I had a first gen LCP and shooting it was no joy. The Kahr is something you can and have fun doing it. More practice with it means more ability and confidence when you need it, vs a gun you never want to practice with, with nasty recoil, and is hard to reload.

I've got a simple test you can perform if the mags are available - load up one round each LCP vs Kahr and space them out on a table. Shoot for time and accuracy loading each one in sequence and let the better gun be your choice.

The LCP takes longer to load racking the slide each time and the sights aren't all that. The Kahr will usually be easier, faster, and more accurate because you can take a bit longer to squeeze off a better shot. If you plan to carry a second magazine then it has importance.

LCP's are certainly less expensive but you get what you pay for.

KEYBEAR · May 21, 2016, 09:11 AM

I have had a Sig 230 in 380 for years and like it a lot .

briandg · May 21, 2016, 12:01 PM

Bill, I have to disagree. The ..25, .32, and.380 are not all equal.

.380 has about twice the mass, over 200 fps increase, probably double expanded diameter, and probably, possibly far deeper penetration. The .25, according to history, was created to be equal to the .22 lr, but in a far more reliable form; center fire and jacketed with a profile that would feed in a pocket semiautomatic.

The guy who made the seecamp said right up front that the .32 was incapable of serious damage and that his pistol was impossible to fire accurately at any range beyond a few yards because it had no sights. He said "this isn't meant to be a combat gun, it's a close in last resort gun. Your supposed to stick it in the other guy's face and pull the trigger." (Not his exact words, except for that last sentence.)

If you look at the.380,it's the same bore size as the luger. It's only 20 grains lighter, and 300 fps, give or take, slower. There is no question that the 9mm is a very effective combat weapon within its limitations. The .380 is even identical to the makarov, and God knows how many people have been killed with that round.

AK103K · May 21, 2016, 12:30 PM

Over the years, I remember reading a number of articles that more or less back up Bills thoughts. At least in regards to the .32's/.380's. The police in Europe used them for a good long time and seemed to have faith in them. Not that Im really using that as an endorsement. They have different ideas on a few things.

Contrary to Larry Seecamps supposed comment (first Ive heard it anyway), At realistic ranges, the Seecamps do quite well, even without sights. I have no troubles making "good" hits on photo silhouette targets, even at 15 yards. Not that Id want that to be my only gun and the distance of choice with it.

I agree, all these "little" guns, are basically "third line" last ditch guns, meant for use at basically contact distance. Any more, except on rare occasions, Ive replaced mine with a good fixed blade knife, simply because, at those distances, I believe it will be more effective and useful.

Its kind of a moot point though too, as if Im down to that, Im already in a world of hurt, as Id already have gone through 61 rounds of 9mm.

May 20, 2016, 10:21 AM	#1
Roland Thunder Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Gwinnett County Georgia Posts: 1,136	380/32 Comparison I have a Kahr PM9 that I carry (when I carry). I had been thinking about selling and getting something lighter and smaller. So, I put together this matrix comparing the various 380/32 pistols. It looks to me like I would have to settle for a Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP (or something else not in this comparison) if I want to go smaller/lighter. I love the looks of the Walther PPK and CZ-83 but I would be giving up power for something bigger with less power. Single action cocked and locked are not an option for me. As a disclaimer, the specs came from the following website: http://whichgun.com/pistols/ This is a nice website for comparing gun specs. __________________ Do not follow where the path may lead, go, instead where there is no path and leave a trail - Ralph Waldo Emerson

May 20, 2016, 01:44 PM	#4
ifithitu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2016 Location: Derby City KY. Posts: 243	I like the BG 380 & G42 380,and I keep them loaded with hollow points.Can't speak for others,but I thank they are the best. __________________ USMC Vietnam Veteran,0311 Grunt. 6/68 to 7/69 Semper Fi

May 20, 2016, 03:55 PM	#5
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,987	"Power" is not all it's purported to be. Having a gun is the most important thing. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

May 20, 2016, 05:42 PM	#12
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,654	The CZ82 IS a blow back designed DA / SA pistol chambered in 9X18 Makarov. It can be carried in the cocked and locked fashion or in the DA mode (hammer down) first round will be DA all subsequent shots will be in SA mode. While I love my CZ82 to no end, I would strike it from your list due mainly to ammo availability. And most small 380's ARE NOT blow back. The LCP, P3AT, TCP, etc are locked breach. While your CZ82, 83, PPQ, Makarovs, etc are blow back design. With all that said if you want a small, light, highly concealable pistol you're gonna get some recoil to go along with it. It's a trade off. I don't like firing a bunch of rounds through the TCP but it's not a range hound and I love carrying it. Last edited by deerslayer303; May 20, 2016 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Spelling

May 20, 2016, 06:01 PM	#16
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQIPMYgP6E __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

May 20, 2016, 11:10 AM	#2
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	If you want a small .32 or .380, don't forget Seecamp. Much small than the Kel Tec or Ruger. Very reliable and well made. link to size comparisons. http://seecamp.com/overlays.htm

May 20, 2016, 12:34 PM	#3
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	That's why I ended up with the P3AT. I wanted the smallest and lightest 380.

May 20, 2016, 04:41 PM	#9
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	At my local indoor range, I have rented and fired several light weight double-action-only 380's with blow back actions, and I hated them all. Nasty trigger pulls and nasty recoil. That forced me to consider single-action-only, such as Sig 238 or Colt Mustang; even though I am not totally comfortable with carrying cocked and locked. Or to consider single/double, such as the Walther PPK or its clones. I have not made a final decision yet, but I am certain that I will not be choosing a double-action-only. I might go back to my S&W J frame revolver for my concealed carry gun.

May 20, 2016, 05:51 PM	#14
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,654	Depends on which ones you're talking about. The small 380's are locked while some of the bigger ones are.

May 20, 2016, 07:01 PM	#17
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	Locked breach pistols are most certainly not delayed blowback. They use a design called short recoil. The slide and barrel are locked together as they recoil and then the barrel disconnects from the slide, which continues back while the barrel stops. The term long recoil is used for those where the barrel travels back more than the length of a cartridge. At least I think that it what separates short from long recoil guns. Long recoil is not a common design in pistols. Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

May 20, 2016, 07:14 PM	#18
franco45 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2010 Location: Toledo Ohio Posts: 474	If you're happy with your PM9 why not consider a Kahr 380? There is the deluxe model P380, the budget CW380 and the slightly larger budget CT380. Kahr triggers are very consistent across the product line and the bar dot sights are too.

May 20, 2016, 08:23 PM	#19
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I believe that you should ignore the .32. I draw my personal line there, I don't think that a .32 reaches a level of damage that is acceptable for a six round handgun a big knife can do as much damage, maybe more. Either the lcp, the bodyguard, or some other compact .380 will stand far above the .32, at a very similar size. The bodyguard and lcp are not blowback, you should avoid blowback operated guns, imo. Even the tiny .380 pistols carry seven rounds, can fire top quality ammo. It's not a 9 or 38, but the tiny little thing will be fine for deep cover when you aren't willing to carry larger. __________________ None.

May 20, 2016, 08:46 PM	#20
ttarp Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 888	Knives do way more damage than most handgun calibers, I think .32 is ok, .25 is where I draw the line.

May 20, 2016, 09:02 PM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,987	In the real world, there isn't much difference in .32 and .380 (or .25!) Knives only work at contact distance. Any of the above calibers will work from much further away. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

May 21, 2016, 07:59 AM	#22
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	The point of the smaller gun is more comfort in carry. The OP mentioned he had a PM9 - yet the CW380 is yet to be mentioned as a lighter weight smaller gun. Compared to the LCP: It's the same size package overall. It's within a fraction of an ounce in unloaded weight. Same magazine capacity but a Plus 1 kit is available. It uses a Browning style ramp lock up, making it pleasant to shoot. Kahr trigger at 6 pounds and easy to pull, plus it's the same as a Glock 19 in travel, ie not that long. It has a slide hold open designed to be used to chamber the first round in the mag, which means NOT having to rack it against a loaded mag column. I had a first gen LCP and shooting it was no joy. The Kahr is something you can and have fun doing it. More practice with it means more ability and confidence when you need it, vs a gun you never want to practice with, with nasty recoil, and is hard to reload. I've got a simple test you can perform if the mags are available - load up one round each LCP vs Kahr and space them out on a table. Shoot for time and accuracy loading each one in sequence and let the better gun be your choice. The LCP takes longer to load racking the slide each time and the sights aren't all that. The Kahr will usually be easier, faster, and more accurate because you can take a bit longer to squeeze off a better shot. If you plan to carry a second magazine then it has importance. LCP's are certainly less expensive but you get what you pay for.

May 21, 2016, 09:11 AM	#23
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	I have had a Sig 230 in 380 for years and like it a lot .

May 21, 2016, 12:01 PM	#24
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Bill, I have to disagree. The ..25, .32, and.380 are not all equal. .380 has about twice the mass, over 200 fps increase, probably double expanded diameter, and probably, possibly far deeper penetration. The .25, according to history, was created to be equal to the .22 lr, but in a far more reliable form; center fire and jacketed with a profile that would feed in a pocket semiautomatic. The guy who made the seecamp said right up front that the .32 was incapable of serious damage and that his pistol was impossible to fire accurately at any range beyond a few yards because it had no sights. He said "this isn't meant to be a combat gun, it's a close in last resort gun. Your supposed to stick it in the other guy's face and pull the trigger." (Not his exact words, except for that last sentence.) If you look at the.380,it's the same bore size as the luger. It's only 20 grains lighter, and 300 fps, give or take, slower. There is no question that the 9mm is a very effective combat weapon within its limitations. The .380 is even identical to the makarov, and God knows how many people have been killed with that round. __________________ None.

May 21, 2016, 12:30 PM	#25
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Over the years, I remember reading a number of articles that more or less back up Bills thoughts. At least in regards to the .32's/.380's. The police in Europe used them for a good long time and seemed to have faith in them. Not that Im really using that as an endorsement. They have different ideas on a few things. Contrary to Larry Seecamps supposed comment (first Ive heard it anyway), At realistic ranges, the Seecamps do quite well, even without sights. I have no troubles making "good" hits on photo silhouette targets, even at 15 yards. Not that Id want that to be my only gun and the distance of choice with it. I agree, all these "little" guns, are basically "third line" last ditch guns, meant for use at basically contact distance. Any more, except on rare occasions, Ive replaced mine with a good fixed blade knife, simply because, at those distances, I believe it will be more effective and useful. Its kind of a moot point though too, as if Im down to that, Im already in a world of hurt, as Id already have gone through 61 rounds of 9mm.