.44 Magnum with 180gr jacketed bullet

Sevens · August 6, 2014, 02:07 PM

Does anyone have any experience worth sharing on this (seemingly odd) combination?

I happened to get a small pile of blemished 180gr XTP's on a pretty good sale quite some time ago and I hadn't done anything with them. My plan for these is to shoot them from my 7.5-inch barreled Ruger Redhawk at 100 and 200 yards at an 8-inch steel gong.

I happen to have -seven- different powders on hand that might work for this task.

I've been gathering different published "opinions" on where I might fall for a charge weight with these powders:
AA#7
AA#9
Alliant Blue Dot
Alliant 2400
Alliant Power Pro-300MP
IMR-4227
IMR-800X

I think the powder I most wish to use will be Alliant 2400. It's the right combo of powder with lots of published data and I happen to have a lot of it on hand. I also have a lot of AA#9 and Power Pro-300MP, but load data is either scarce or non-existent. I have a small handful of printed Western/Accurate guides going all the way back to '89, but only one of those guides suggests a load using AA#9, so Accurate must really not care for that powder in this role.

I only listed 800X, Blue Dot and IMR-4227 because those are left-over powders that I have no future plans to use or purchase again.

I'm sure that I can safely make loads that will fling a 180gr XTP from my big Redhawk, but I'm curious if anyone else had hands-on load experience with these light-for-caliber bullets in .44 Magnum.

Any thoughts you care to share will be interesting!

NoSecondBest · August 6, 2014, 02:17 PM

Nothing "odd" about the 180grain XTP in 44cal. It's been around a very long time and many countless thousands have been shot or Hornady would have quit making them a long time ago. I used to use them quite a bit when I hunted woodchucks with the handgun. They expand very well even in a lowly woodchuck when driven by a good charge of WW296. I've also shot a couple of deer with them and they expanded quite well from the look of the exit wound on the animal. In each case they were a complete pass through. Although a short bullet for the caliber, they shot quite well in the Super Blackhawk and 629 I owned at the time. Shooting the lighter bullet tamed the recoil of the 44mag quite a bit also. I have no idea what your shooting abilities are but I could easily get sub 2" five shot groups off a rest at 50 yards with them "back in the day" when I was shooting handgun every day.

Sevens · August 6, 2014, 02:23 PM

Well, it kind of seems like Hornady produces these bullets for use in the .44 Special and published load data for 180 grain slugs simply pales in comparison to 240 and 300 grain bullets in .44 Magnum.

So while it's not some crazy, unknown bullet weight, I'd have to suggest that it is indeed "light for caliber" and outside the mainstream when it comes to .44 Magnum.

My shooting abilities will help

(at least that is the hope!) but when ringing steel at long range, it's all going to be a simple PASS or FAIL. I don't intend to shoot for groups with this load. I want some ring-a-ding audible feedback because that will make me go -->

Mike / Tx · August 6, 2014, 04:28 PM

Years ago I shot hundreds of the Sierra 180's from my 44 at top end velocities. I had a Leupold 4X mounted on top and from a rest shot many groups that were under 2" at 100yds with it. I always wanted to get me a deer with it but none ever cooperated with my plans.

Of the powders you liasted the slower ones should work just fine. I have used AA-9 quite a bit as well as 2400, but the main load used 296 lit with Win LP primers.

What you might find as I did is that the crimp WILL make a difference in your accuracy. All you need is just enough to roll the lip over into the cannalure and hold it still. Your case tension should do most of the work. Experiment with it and see how it pans out for you. I know last time I worked up some loads, I had shots all over the paper until I backed off the crimp and started over.

zeke · August 6, 2014, 08:14 PM

Bout 90% of my 44 mag reloading is with the 180 jhp. Used to be the Rem was cheaper and available, now the Hdy is available more often.

11.0 grains of unique under a 180 jhp, Fed 150 primer, heavy LFC gets 1250 fps from 4 inch Mt gun. This load has been very accurate in every 44 mag owned, including S&W, Ruger and Marlin. Add bout 300 fps from 16 in lever.

Have also used V V N-110 and 105 for higher velocity's, still very accurate.

SHR970 · August 6, 2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I have a small handful of printed Western/Accurate guides going all the way back to '89, but only one of those guides suggests a load using AA#9, so Accurate must really not care for that powder in this role.

But my older Hornady manual lists a range for #9. If you really want it I'll send you the specifics.

I tried Rem. 180's in the past. Started with W296....lots of flash, huge boom, and so so accuracy. Tried AA#7...worked much better. Less flash, big bang, better accuracy. I never got to #9 with those bullets.

I've found that for light for caliber bullets in magnum rounds that #7 can do better than the slower powders with the right combo. I've even seen better velocities coupled with better accuracy. YMMV, void where prohibited, no warranties expressed or implied.

BOOMST1CK · August 6, 2014, 11:24 PM

I only listed 800X, Blue Dot and IMR-4227 because those are left-over powders that I have no future plans to use or purchase again.

I really like imr-4227 and 800x in 357 and 44 mag. I mostly shoot 240 gr plated bullets, but I do have a bunch of 180 gr xtp too that I shoot now and then.

243winxb · August 7, 2014, 07:57 AM

IMR-4227 worked well for me years ago with 180 gr jacketed in scoped model 29.

madmo44mag · August 7, 2014, 08:04 AM

I use to hunt white take deer with a 180 JHP in 44mag from a 10 inch bull barrel Ruger SBH.
This was back in the day when I over loaded just about every 44 mag round I shot.
I loaded a Speer 180gn JHP over 25.5 of 2400 with a mag primer with a heavy roll crimp.
One heck of a deer killer round.
This was a load I worked up for that pistol and do not recommend loading this round without 1st working it up from a lower starting charge.
I started out using a 240gn JHP over 22.5 gn of 2400 but it did to much damage even after backing the charge weight down so I went to a lighter bullet and more velocity and ended up with a real nice white tail round.
Never found a powder I liked better than 2400 for full house 44mag loads.
IMR 4227 is as close as I ever found to match the performance of 2400.
One thing with magnum type pistol rounds is filling the case is very important. Faster burning powders work but don't have the ignition consistency of a powder that fills the case.

WESHOOT2 · August 8, 2014, 03:39 PM

Of the listed choices I'd start with 2400.

I prefer N350.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · August 9, 2014, 08:40 AM

Never had much luck in load development with the 180 gr. Bought a new Ruger 44 auto back in the early 70s. I tried to reload 180gr.HP's for it. Fast but but where did that bullet go!>?@#!__ type of ammo. (not at all accurate) when using 296 up & down its powder scale listing. The rifle actually shot its best with 240 gr. Disappointed I couldn't develop a lighter bullet for its use. It entered forced retirement._

salvadore · August 9, 2014, 11:19 AM

I bought a box of 180gr. XTPs some years back and still have them. Not a lot of data for that bullet in 44 spec.s using a heavy frame revolver.

**44 AMP** · August 9, 2014, 11:33 AM

I loaded some 180gr JHC (sierra) over 20+gr of AA#9 (exact charge PM me), back in 99 and my Desert Eagle (90 vintage) loves them.

Should work fine in a revolver, too.

Sevens · August 9, 2014, 12:30 PM

As I eluded to in my OP, I have a decent array of Accurate published guides. I've got their '89, '92 and 2003 guides and also their more modern/current ones, the same that are accessible via .pdf download right now.

Only the '89 guide is willing to show 180gr JHP data, the XTP in fact (the bullet I'm using) and it shows a 23.0gr start charge (1,300fps from 7.5" Blackhawk) to a 26.5gr max charge with a 1,525fps estimation.

That seems like a HEAP of AA#9 to me.

Curiously, they list a light load of AA#2 (which is not my style and never would I try) but they don't list a 180gr load in .44 Mag with their #7 powder, which is what they must have decided after this guide was published, because that seems to be Accurate's "go to" choice for 180gr slugs in .44 Mag.

I'll probably just build these with Alliant 2400 and hope I can hold steady enough to bang steel at 200 yards with it.

SHR970 · August 9, 2014, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Only the '89 guide is willing to show 180gr JHP data, the XTP in fact

I have print outs of the mid 2000's on line data in several calibers including the 44 Mag for both rifle and pistol. They also listed the 180 gr. XTP....no data for #9 but #7 is listed. At Wide Open Throttle they clocked 1707 fps out of a 7 1/2" Redhawk.

Sevens · August 9, 2014, 01:00 PM

It leads me to believe that certainly, AA#9 will work under a 180 grain bullet in .44 Magnum, but Accurate seems to believe that it's senseless to do so when their own AA#7 does a far better job. Of course, that's just how it "seems" to me.

Published load data changes over time for many reasons, but to me...
I've always found the older guides to be a fine resource. I don't run to one particular guide, take ONLY that information and consider it gospel, but I do figure that if the powder manufacturer/distributor thought enough about it to publish it, I keep it as a genuine point of interest.

I take a LOT of different published opinions in to account when I decide how I plan to develop a load.

The only reason I'm even discussing AA#9 in a role where Accurate (seemingly) does not suggest it should be used is because I happen to have a great supply of it and I really have gotten fine use of it under "proper" bullet weights in .327, .357, .44 Magnum.

Sevens · August 9, 2014, 01:13 PM

Hahaha, speak of the devil!

It appears as though Western Powders has a new .pdf guide that I did not realize was newer than my trusty 3.5 guide. It's the 5.0 edition and wouldn't you just know it...

...they list a load for the 180gr XTP in .44 Magnum with AA#9.

Start=21.6gr for 1,455fps
Max=24.0gr for 1,675fps
...both are lofty numbers from 8.275" barrel.

I've had a good laugh over this.

Arub · August 9, 2014, 04:44 PM

I use 22.0 grains 2400 at an OAL of 1.60. Measured velocity is 1890 ft/sec 10 feet from the muzzle launched from a 20" Marlin 1894. More loads available at Handloaders.com.

cdoc42 · August 11, 2014, 07:04 PM

38 years ago I started with Hercules 2400, 180gr Rem JHP and a CCI 350 primer. Book velocity was with a max of 26.0gr for 1600FPS.

Over time I moved to H110 and graphed the 180 JHP at 1782fps (average) with 28.0 gr of powder. I used the same load with Hornady's 180XTP.

Used these loads in both Ruger Super Black Hawk and my current Super Red Hawk and with the latter was able to hit bowling pins at 200 yards with a non-magnified red dot sight.

I've not experimented further for at least the last 35 years.

black mamba · August 12, 2014, 08:25 PM

One of the most accurate loads I've found for any of my handguns is the 180 XTP over 16.0 gr. of HS6 and CCI-350 primer for right at 1500 fps out of my 6" Model 629 Classic. It consistently shoots 1.5 to 1.7 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards from a sandbag rest.

Of the powders you list, Accurate #7 is the closest in burn rate, although still a little slower. It would be the first one I'd try.

August 6, 2014, 02:07 PM	#1
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	.44 Magnum with 180gr jacketed bullet Does anyone have any experience worth sharing on this (seemingly odd) combination? I happened to get a small pile of blemished 180gr XTP's on a pretty good sale quite some time ago and I hadn't done anything with them. My plan for these is to shoot them from my 7.5-inch barreled Ruger Redhawk at 100 and 200 yards at an 8-inch steel gong. I happen to have -seven- different powders on hand that might work for this task. I've been gathering different published "opinions" on where I might fall for a charge weight with these powders: AA#7 AA#9 Alliant Blue Dot Alliant 2400 Alliant Power Pro-300MP IMR-4227 IMR-800X I think the powder I most wish to use will be Alliant 2400. It's the right combo of powder with lots of published data and I happen to have a lot of it on hand. I also have a lot of AA#9 and Power Pro-300MP, but load data is either scarce or non-existent. I have a small handful of printed Western/Accurate guides going all the way back to '89, but only one of those guides suggests a load using AA#9, so Accurate must really not care for that powder in this role. I only listed 800X, Blue Dot and IMR-4227 because those are left-over powders that I have no future plans to use or purchase again. I'm sure that I can safely make loads that will fling a 180gr XTP from my big Redhawk, but I'm curious if anyone else had hands-on load experience with these light-for-caliber bullets in .44 Magnum. Any thoughts you care to share will be interesting! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 6, 2014, 02:23 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Well, it kind of seems like Hornady produces these bullets for use in the .44 Special and published load data for 180 grain slugs simply pales in comparison to 240 and 300 grain bullets in .44 Magnum. So while it's not some crazy, unknown bullet weight, I'd have to suggest that it is indeed "light for caliber" and outside the mainstream when it comes to .44 Magnum. My shooting abilities will help (at least that is the hope!) but when ringing steel at long range, it's all going to be a simple PASS or FAIL. I don't intend to shoot for groups with this load. I want some ring-a-ding audible feedback because that will make me go --> __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 6, 2014, 04:28 PM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Years ago I shot hundreds of the Sierra 180's from my 44 at top end velocities. I had a Leupold 4X mounted on top and from a rest shot many groups that were under 2" at 100yds with it. I always wanted to get me a deer with it but none ever cooperated with my plans. Of the powders you liasted the slower ones should work just fine. I have used AA-9 quite a bit as well as 2400, but the main load used 296 lit with Win LP primers. What you might find as I did is that the crimp WILL make a difference in your accuracy. All you need is just enough to roll the lip over into the cannalure and hold it still. Your case tension should do most of the work. Experiment with it and see how it pans out for you. I know last time I worked up some loads, I had shots all over the paper until I backed off the crimp and started over. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

August 8, 2014, 03:39 PM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I'm with you Of the listed choices I'd start with 2400. I prefer N350. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 9, 2014, 11:33 AM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	I loaded some 180gr JHC (sierra) over 20+gr of AA#9 (exact charge PM me), back in 99 and my Desert Eagle (90 vintage) loves them. Should work fine in a revolver, too. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 6, 2014, 02:17 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Nothing "odd" about the 180grain XTP in 44cal. It's been around a very long time and many countless thousands have been shot or Hornady would have quit making them a long time ago. I used to use them quite a bit when I hunted woodchucks with the handgun. They expand very well even in a lowly woodchuck when driven by a good charge of WW296. I've also shot a couple of deer with them and they expanded quite well from the look of the exit wound on the animal. In each case they were a complete pass through. Although a short bullet for the caliber, they shot quite well in the Super Blackhawk and 629 I owned at the time. Shooting the lighter bullet tamed the recoil of the 44mag quite a bit also. I have no idea what your shooting abilities are but I could easily get sub 2" five shot groups off a rest at 50 yards with them "back in the day" when I was shooting handgun every day.

August 6, 2014, 08:14 PM	#5
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Bout 90% of my 44 mag reloading is with the 180 jhp. Used to be the Rem was cheaper and available, now the Hdy is available more often. 11.0 grains of unique under a 180 jhp, Fed 150 primer, heavy LFC gets 1250 fps from 4 inch Mt gun. This load has been very accurate in every 44 mag owned, including S&W, Ruger and Marlin. Add bout 300 fps from 16 in lever. Have also used V V N-110 and 105 for higher velocity's, still very accurate.

August 6, 2014, 11:24 PM	#7
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	I only listed 800X, Blue Dot and IMR-4227 because those are left-over powders that I have no future plans to use or purchase again. I really like imr-4227 and 800x in 357 and 44 mag. I mostly shoot 240 gr plated bullets, but I do have a bunch of 180 gr xtp too that I shoot now and then.

August 7, 2014, 07:57 AM	#8
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	IMR-4227 worked well for me years ago with 180 gr jacketed in scoped model 29.

August 7, 2014, 08:04 AM	#9
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	I use to hunt white take deer with a 180 JHP in 44mag from a 10 inch bull barrel Ruger SBH. This was back in the day when I over loaded just about every 44 mag round I shot. I loaded a Speer 180gn JHP over 25.5 of 2400 with a mag primer with a heavy roll crimp. One heck of a deer killer round. This was a load I worked up for that pistol and do not recommend loading this round without 1st working it up from a lower starting charge. I started out using a 240gn JHP over 22.5 gn of 2400 but it did to much damage even after backing the charge weight down so I went to a lighter bullet and more velocity and ended up with a real nice white tail round. Never found a powder I liked better than 2400 for full house 44mag loads. IMR 4227 is as close as I ever found to match the performance of 2400. One thing with magnum type pistol rounds is filling the case is very important. Faster burning powders work but don't have the ignition consistency of a powder that fills the case. __________________ Texas - Not just a state but an attitude! For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW

August 9, 2014, 08:40 AM	#11
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Never had much luck in load development with the 180 gr. Bought a new Ruger 44 auto back in the early 70s. I tried to reload 180gr.HP's for it. Fast but but where did that bullet go!>?@#!__ type of ammo. (not at all accurate) when using 296 up & down its powder scale listing. The rifle actually shot its best with 240 gr. Disappointed I couldn't develop a lighter bullet for its use. It entered forced retirement._

August 9, 2014, 11:19 AM	#12
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I bought a box of 180gr. XTPs some years back and still have them. Not a lot of data for that bullet in 44 spec.s using a heavy frame revolver.

August 9, 2014, 12:30 PM	#14
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	As I eluded to in my OP, I have a decent array of Accurate published guides. I've got their '89, '92 and 2003 guides and also their more modern/current ones, the same that are accessible via .pdf download right now. Only the '89 guide is willing to show 180gr JHP data, the XTP in fact (the bullet I'm using) and it shows a 23.0gr start charge (1,300fps from 7.5" Blackhawk) to a 26.5gr max charge with a 1,525fps estimation. That seems like a HEAP of AA#9 to me. Curiously, they list a light load of AA#2 (which is not my style and never would I try) but they don't list a 180gr load in .44 Mag with their #7 powder, which is what they must have decided after this guide was published, because that seems to be Accurate's "go to" choice for 180gr slugs in .44 Mag. I'll probably just build these with Alliant 2400 and hope I can hold steady enough to bang steel at 200 yards with it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 9, 2014, 01:00 PM	#16
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	It leads me to believe that certainly, AA#9 will work under a 180 grain bullet in .44 Magnum, but Accurate seems to believe that it's senseless to do so when their own AA#7 does a far better job. Of course, that's just how it "seems" to me. Published load data changes over time for many reasons, but to me... I've always found the older guides to be a fine resource. I don't run to one particular guide, take ONLY that information and consider it gospel, but I do figure that if the powder manufacturer/distributor thought enough about it to publish it, I keep it as a genuine point of interest. I take a LOT of different published opinions in to account when I decide how I plan to develop a load. The only reason I'm even discussing AA#9 in a role where Accurate (seemingly) does not suggest it should be used is because I happen to have a great supply of it and I really have gotten fine use of it under "proper" bullet weights in .327, .357, .44 Magnum. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 9, 2014, 01:13 PM	#17
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Hahaha, speak of the devil! It appears as though Western Powders has a new .pdf guide that I did not realize was newer than my trusty 3.5 guide. It's the 5.0 edition and wouldn't you just know it... ...they list a load for the 180gr XTP in .44 Magnum with AA#9. Start=21.6gr for 1,455fps Max=24.0gr for 1,675fps ...both are lofty numbers from 8.275" barrel. I've had a good laugh over this. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 9, 2014, 04:44 PM	#18
Arub Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2001 Location: UCLA (upper corner of lower Alabama) Posts: 533	I use 22.0 grains 2400 at an OAL of 1.60. Measured velocity is 1890 ft/sec 10 feet from the muzzle launched from a 20" Marlin 1894. More loads available at Handloaders.com.

August 11, 2014, 07:04 PM	#19
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	38 years ago I started with Hercules 2400, 180gr Rem JHP and a CCI 350 primer. Book velocity was with a max of 26.0gr for 1600FPS. Over time I moved to H110 and graphed the 180 JHP at 1782fps (average) with 28.0 gr of powder. I used the same load with Hornady's 180XTP. Used these loads in both Ruger Super Black Hawk and my current Super Red Hawk and with the latter was able to hit bowling pins at 200 yards with a non-magnified red dot sight. I've not experimented further for at least the last 35 years.

August 12, 2014, 08:25 PM	#20
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	One of the most accurate loads I've found for any of my handguns is the 180 XTP over 16.0 gr. of HS6 and CCI-350 primer for right at 1500 fps out of my 6" Model 629 Classic. It consistently shoots 1.5 to 1.7 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards from a sandbag rest. Of the powders you list, Accurate #7 is the closest in burn rate, although still a little slower. It would be the first one I'd try.