What sort of penetration might I expect.

Panfisher · March 24, 2014, 11:43 AM

Loaded up some Barnes TSX for my .223 AR for a possible hog eradication ambush. Scenario would basically be, 2-4 fair sized hogs (boar up to 250#), at night from roughly 50 yards away in a blind. two of us, count down 1-2-3-lights-shoot. Plan is to put the first shot into head/neck and put that pig down, then go to work on whatever is left and try to at least slow one or two more down. Remember this is strictly an eradication effort of feral hogs in a remote area. My partner will be packing his DPMS .308, I know I can't match his power, but I am hoping to be able to send one or two of the TSX's (55 grainers) through a pig. Am planning also to wear a full hood of some kind, don't like the thought of a smoking hot .308 case going down my collar, the .223's are hot enough, and since he is the actual "offical guy" I suspect he will want on the left side, hmmm earplugs might be good too at least on the left side.

Sierra280 · March 24, 2014, 11:53 AM

I read a hog hunting article awhile back, I think it was in Guns&Ammo, the author reported having better success dropping hogs with 1 shot using Barnes .223 loads than with shotgun slugs!

Definitely wear some ear protection, have some fun, and good luck!

Brian Pfleuger · March 24, 2014, 02:09 PM

Since you mention earplugs, I highly recommend that you do not discharge any firearm louder than a 22LR rifle without hearing protection. Electronic muffs can be had for under $40. Buy them, use them, every time.

Penetration, I would expect a T/TSX to fully penetrate a hog unless the shot is length-wise.

Old Stony · March 24, 2014, 02:39 PM

I use 55 fmj's on hogs all the time and they do very well. Just put it in the boiler room and you have a dead hog. I seldom see one going all the way through, but they do the job internally evidently. Getting off more than one shot at a bunch at night is pretty ambitious as they get moving really quick, if you can anchor the first one count yourself lucky.

jmr40 · March 24, 2014, 03:31 PM

I doubt if you'll find any of the TSX's in a hog. Expect complete penetration and huge exit holes.

Panfisher · March 24, 2014, 06:03 PM

Thanks fellers, that is sort of what I expected, complete pass through and lots of damage, I know my 7mm Barnes XBT are certainly tough to stop wasn't sure about the .224's. Yeah I know that expecting a shot at a second hog is pretty ambitious, but hey should one tarry too long who am I to deny him his "shot" at fame. Otherwise the whole plan is to put the first one down hard, after that we will see. I have lots of earplugs, I give them out at Hunter Ed classes, have considered the electronic muffs for me, will take another look, they would be perfect. Definitely NOT looking forward to having his 16" .308 go off next to me unprotected. the plan is continuously evolving and changing, talked to the trapper today and looks like maybe the main group has combined with the boar bachelor group, they may try a drop net, then its go to work with the AR time before they make their escape, still sounds like fun to me.

Hope it works out, if not hey I got some wicked deer loads too.

Unlicensed Dremel · March 24, 2014, 10:51 PM

Barnes are good bullets. They will work plenty well. The head/neck shot is an excellent plan...

But then you said this:

Quote:

Then go to work on whatever is left and try to at least slow one or two more down.

What does that mean? It sounds like it means you intend to intentionally wound rather than kill with random spray and pray. That's unethical. Or at least it used to be, before Ted Nugent started disgracing hunters and giving us all a black eye with his mass wounding expeditions from a helicopter.

fatwhiteboy · March 24, 2014, 11:32 PM

I use 140 TSX in my .270, 168gr in my .308 and 200gr in my son's .300 WinMag. The performance has been perfect. We shot two hogs two weeks ago, 175lbs and +200lbs. We recovered both bullets, they had opened perfectly....

Picher · March 25, 2014, 06:59 AM

I've never been there, but my plan would be for him to start on the one to the far left, you to the one far right. If there are more pigs, both of you can work towards the middle.

Ibmikey · March 25, 2014, 07:10 AM

Look at Stony's post, a bit optimistic to think a group of hogs will let you shoot them "Alvin York" style.

Panfisher · March 25, 2014, 08:01 AM

WELL I was planning on taking that first shot very carefully but maybe I can just stand up and start shooting from the hip. Come on I have already said, plan first shot put one down period, then if anything hangs around long enough great I'll try for a second one, if not at least that first one will be dead. If a second one was to just show me its hips I will put another TSX through them and break him down to finish off. This is an extermination attemp not a hunt per se.

Unlicensed Dremel · March 25, 2014, 09:18 AM

Oh, ok, great. I misunderstood. To you,

"Then go to work on whatever is left and try to at least slow one or two more down."

means in reality "then take good, careful, ethical CNS or heart/lung kill shots on the others."

Excellent. I'm very glad to hear this, and proud to know such other ethical hunters. Carry on and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Panfisher · March 25, 2014, 09:29 AM

No Problem. My original thought was to take my bolt action 7-08 I KNOW what that first shot would equal = dead hog. However there would likely be no follow up shots, so the trapper wanted me to bring something that I could still make that first shot kill and have at least the opportunity to make follow up shots if given that opportunity. I fully expect that at the first shot there will be at most a second or two maybe less before they all explode like a covey of quail, and in the area where the bait is, if they make it 20 feet they are gone. Looking more now like it will shift back to a trapping situation but we shall see. Thanks for the input.

globemaster3 · March 26, 2014, 07:45 AM

Panfisher, also consider the sight you will use. You didn't mention it, but it sounds like you are using daytime optics at night, hence your light reference. If so, consider a holographic or red dot like an EOTECH or Aimpoint since you are talking 50 yard shots. The unmagnified optic will allow you to shoot both eyes open and stay on target for fleeting shots better than using a standard scope.

If eradication is the concern, you will be much more effective trapping than shooting. Take a look at Jäger Pro, an outfit run by retired, former AMU senior NCOs out of Georgia. They've developed some excellent tactics and equipment to maximize your trapping success.

And I think I just threw up in my mouth a little from the "ethics police"...

Panfisher · March 26, 2014, 08:19 AM

My R-15 has a 1.5-4.5 Bushnell Dusk to Dawn scope, obviously it is a daytime scope, and I am not gonna buy/spend several hundred dollars to get a night vision rig, or eotech or acog. Trapping is already a part of the control/eradication system, this particular situation was going to be part of an attempt to get a couple of lone boars that were separate from the rest, but possibly have joined the main group, weather/wind direction is keeping us out of the blind right now, and it may all go away, has to be done by early arpil due to the onset of turkey season and baiting restrictions. May never happen who knows, the trapper has a trap set up, with the door wired open right now I think, waiting to see if they start hitting that bait again before he set the door to trip. Wish I had more time to help him, seems pretty interesting to me anyway.

Oh and the ethical comments didn't bother me, on the internet it is very easy to read a comment like I gave and interpret it as a spray and pray so I didn't take any offense, they are still animals and should be treated as humanely as possible. Hopefully I will get a chance at one of the pigs, if so the trapper and I share an interest in bullets/ballistics so after we take blood samples etc. likely there will be an autopsy of sorts to see what the terminal effects were. I did purchase a shell catcher for my rifle, not sure I trust it but might be a good option in the blind to keep from sending hot empties onto someone.

globemaster3 · March 26, 2014, 08:31 AM

No worries. Don't blame you for not wanting to buy another sight. Just food for thought in case one was available to you.

It's fun doing those post-mortem exams.

Also, still check out the Jäger Pro website. They have some excellent videos on shooting pigs on the run to demonstrate proper leads for various angles and ranges. Might prove helpful if you try to take one on the run.

Panfisher · March 26, 2014, 02:34 PM

Just great Globemaster3, I was doing pretty good on the patience end, waiting for the time to be right, now I want to go right NOW!.. Nice videos on the Jager site, sure would be fun with their thermal scopes and R-25's.

doofus47 · March 27, 2014, 10:39 PM

Wear some ear protection.
I'd expect a ttsx to go through and into the tree beyond.

reynolds357 · March 31, 2014, 09:50 AM

Unlicensed Dremel, when dealing with wild hogs, very little is un-ethical. I liken controlling them to controlling rats in my barn. Watching a rat die from rat poison is not exactly pleasant to watch, but its necessary. Wild hog is the same way. It is a nuisance that destroys crops, fields, and runs game animals away. Kill them clean or get them with Gangrene, its all on the table when dealing with that nuisance. Think big barn rat.

For the record, I have never shot a hog I did not find. Having said that, I would not lose 1/2 seconds sleep if I did not clean kill one and it got away.

Unlicensed Dremel · April 2, 2014, 05:24 PM

Well, that's where you just went dead wrong, IMO, reynolds, because you misunderstand the key concept here< IMO: the ethics which a species deserves is dependent not upon their degree of nuisance, but rather solely upon their intelligence and and classification as a mammal. IMO.

Quote:

or get them with Gangrene, its all on the table when dealing with that nuisance. Think big barn rat.

Absurd, barbaric, highly unethical statement, in my view. The only barn rats here are those among a developed, supposedly-civilized species who would not use proper ethics to take a closely-related mammal of high intelligence. Your mileage may vary.

Under your view, if deer become a nuisance, you could do the same to them right? All bets are off once they reach nuisance status, right? Just sling lead - spray and pray to the maximum extent possible with nuisances, correct? I mean, what's your criteria for when one shot, one kill is the ethics that the species deserves?

Your attitude makes me ill, and paints all hunters in a bad light in the eyes of the general public. Those are facts.

NCummins · April 2, 2014, 09:48 PM

I wouldn't lose sleep over wounding a hog. Sure I'd try to find it but if I couldn't oh well. No different than a mouse or rat, except they don't eat very well.
Do you glue trap mice/rats? Do you eat them after you kill them? Poison them?
Rats and mice are mighty smart, and last I checked mammals as well.

Panfisher · April 3, 2014, 08:36 AM

Easy fellers, my hunt looks like its going to fall through anyhow. While I certainly don't advocate intentionally gut shooting critters etc. During an eradication effort if I have a shot at the south end of a north bound hog, I will put a bullet right at the base of his tail, will it be an instant clean kill, no but it will allow me to follow him up and finish him off. I don't like losing any animal I have shot whether its a squirrel or a deer, but beating this up as an ethical argument isn't going to do anything but rile some folks up.

reynolds357 · April 4, 2014, 07:09 PM

Dremel, there are soybean fields around here where every night the hunters open up on the deer with spot lights and ar-15's. They dont recover half of them, but they save hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of soy beans. People find deer regularly a couple miles away from those fields that have traveled that far and died. Does not hurt my moral compass. Farmer has to make a living. If you feel sorry for hogs, you need to come deal with some of the damage they cause around here. Wounding the hog to die days later or letting a pack of dogs bite the hog to death over 20 minutes? I see very little difference in the two.

upstate81 · April 5, 2014, 08:22 AM

Thats funny because we do the same in our apple orchards. People have no idea the impact deer, hogs or any other animal can have on someones living. Our farm provides a life for four families. We have no time for wild anuimals screwing that up. Yes we have permits and all our freezers are full life is good

Longshot4 · April 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

If you use the 55 gr. Barns. Load for the faster rounds. This week I shot at a 3/8 steel target with the barns 45 gr in my Hornet moving at about 2900 FPS The damage was half penetration. Load them hotter. My lighter loads just ding the plate. You won't like a ****** off razor tucker shredding your jeans. Make sure your clip is full. You will be on the edge of low power. I would go with a heavier slug for safety. Are you going to entertain or to kill?

March 24, 2014, 11:43 AM	#1
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	What sort of penetration might I expect. Loaded up some Barnes TSX for my .223 AR for a possible hog eradication ambush. Scenario would basically be, 2-4 fair sized hogs (boar up to 250#), at night from roughly 50 yards away in a blind. two of us, count down 1-2-3-lights-shoot. Plan is to put the first shot into head/neck and put that pig down, then go to work on whatever is left and try to at least slow one or two more down. Remember this is strictly an eradication effort of feral hogs in a remote area. My partner will be packing his DPMS .308, I know I can't match his power, but I am hoping to be able to send one or two of the TSX's (55 grainers) through a pig. Am planning also to wear a full hood of some kind, don't like the thought of a smoking hot .308 case going down my collar, the .223's are hot enough, and since he is the actual "offical guy" I suspect he will want on the left side, hmmm earplugs might be good too at least on the left side.

March 24, 2014, 02:09 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Since you mention earplugs, I highly recommend that you do not discharge any firearm louder than a 22LR rifle without hearing protection. Electronic muffs can be had for under $40. Buy them, use them, every time. Penetration, I would expect a T/TSX to fully penetrate a hog unless the shot is length-wise. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 24, 2014, 11:32 PM	#8
fatwhiteboy Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 317	I use 140 TSX in my .270, 168gr in my .308 and 200gr in my son's .300 WinMag. The performance has been perfect. We shot two hogs two weeks ago, 175lbs and +200lbs. We recovered both bullets, they had opened perfectly.... __________________ Fat White So Cal

March 26, 2014, 07:45 AM	#14
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Panfisher, also consider the sight you will use. You didn't mention it, but it sounds like you are using daytime optics at night, hence your light reference. If so, consider a holographic or red dot like an EOTECH or Aimpoint since you are talking 50 yard shots. The unmagnified optic will allow you to shoot both eyes open and stay on target for fleeting shots better than using a standard scope. If eradication is the concern, you will be much more effective trapping than shooting. Take a look at Jäger Pro, an outfit run by retired, former AMU senior NCOs out of Georgia. They've developed some excellent tactics and equipment to maximize your trapping success. And I think I just threw up in my mouth a little from the "ethics police"... __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

March 26, 2014, 08:31 AM	#16
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	No worries. Don't blame you for not wanting to buy another sight. Just food for thought in case one was available to you. It's fun doing those post-mortem exams. Also, still check out the Jäger Pro website. They have some excellent videos on shooting pigs on the run to demonstrate proper leads for various angles and ranges. Might prove helpful if you try to take one on the run. __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

March 24, 2014, 11:53 AM	#2
Sierra280 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 569	I read a hog hunting article awhile back, I think it was in Guns&Ammo, the author reported having better success dropping hogs with 1 shot using Barnes .223 loads than with shotgun slugs! Definitely wear some ear protection, have some fun, and good luck!

March 24, 2014, 02:39 PM	#4
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I use 55 fmj's on hogs all the time and they do very well. Just put it in the boiler room and you have a dead hog. I seldom see one going all the way through, but they do the job internally evidently. Getting off more than one shot at a bunch at night is pretty ambitious as they get moving really quick, if you can anchor the first one count yourself lucky.

March 24, 2014, 03:31 PM	#5
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,811	I doubt if you'll find any of the TSX's in a hog. Expect complete penetration and huge exit holes.

March 24, 2014, 06:03 PM	#6
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Thanks fellers, that is sort of what I expected, complete pass through and lots of damage, I know my 7mm Barnes XBT are certainly tough to stop wasn't sure about the .224's. Yeah I know that expecting a shot at a second hog is pretty ambitious, but hey should one tarry too long who am I to deny him his "shot" at fame. Otherwise the whole plan is to put the first one down hard, after that we will see. I have lots of earplugs, I give them out at Hunter Ed classes, have considered the electronic muffs for me, will take another look, they would be perfect. Definitely NOT looking forward to having his 16" .308 go off next to me unprotected. the plan is continuously evolving and changing, talked to the trapper today and looks like maybe the main group has combined with the boar bachelor group, they may try a drop net, then its go to work with the AR time before they make their escape, still sounds like fun to me. Hope it works out, if not hey I got some wicked deer loads too.

March 25, 2014, 06:59 AM	#9
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,695	I've never been there, but my plan would be for him to start on the one to the far left, you to the one far right. If there are more pigs, both of you can work towards the middle.

March 25, 2014, 07:10 AM	#10
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	Look at Stony's post, a bit optimistic to think a group of hogs will let you shoot them "Alvin York" style.

March 25, 2014, 08:01 AM	#11
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	WELL I was planning on taking that first shot very carefully but maybe I can just stand up and start shooting from the hip. Come on I have already said, plan first shot put one down period, then if anything hangs around long enough great I'll try for a second one, if not at least that first one will be dead. If a second one was to just show me its hips I will put another TSX through them and break him down to finish off. This is an extermination attemp not a hunt per se.

March 25, 2014, 09:18 AM	#12
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	Oh, ok, great. I misunderstood. To you, "Then go to work on whatever is left and try to at least slow one or two more down." means in reality "then take good, careful, ethical CNS or heart/lung kill shots on the others." Excellent. I'm very glad to hear this, and proud to know such other ethical hunters. Carry on and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

March 25, 2014, 09:29 AM	#13
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	No Problem. My original thought was to take my bolt action 7-08 I KNOW what that first shot would equal = dead hog. However there would likely be no follow up shots, so the trapper wanted me to bring something that I could still make that first shot kill and have at least the opportunity to make follow up shots if given that opportunity. I fully expect that at the first shot there will be at most a second or two maybe less before they all explode like a covey of quail, and in the area where the bait is, if they make it 20 feet they are gone. Looking more now like it will shift back to a trapping situation but we shall see. Thanks for the input.

March 26, 2014, 08:19 AM	#15
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	My R-15 has a 1.5-4.5 Bushnell Dusk to Dawn scope, obviously it is a daytime scope, and I am not gonna buy/spend several hundred dollars to get a night vision rig, or eotech or acog. Trapping is already a part of the control/eradication system, this particular situation was going to be part of an attempt to get a couple of lone boars that were separate from the rest, but possibly have joined the main group, weather/wind direction is keeping us out of the blind right now, and it may all go away, has to be done by early arpil due to the onset of turkey season and baiting restrictions. May never happen who knows, the trapper has a trap set up, with the door wired open right now I think, waiting to see if they start hitting that bait again before he set the door to trip. Wish I had more time to help him, seems pretty interesting to me anyway. Oh and the ethical comments didn't bother me, on the internet it is very easy to read a comment like I gave and interpret it as a spray and pray so I didn't take any offense, they are still animals and should be treated as humanely as possible. Hopefully I will get a chance at one of the pigs, if so the trapper and I share an interest in bullets/ballistics so after we take blood samples etc. likely there will be an autopsy of sorts to see what the terminal effects were. I did purchase a shell catcher for my rifle, not sure I trust it but might be a good option in the blind to keep from sending hot empties onto someone.

March 26, 2014, 02:34 PM	#17
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Just great Globemaster3, I was doing pretty good on the patience end, waiting for the time to be right, now I want to go right NOW!.. Nice videos on the Jager site, sure would be fun with their thermal scopes and R-25's.

March 27, 2014, 10:39 PM	#18
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	Wear some ear protection. I'd expect a ttsx to go through and into the tree beyond. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

March 31, 2014, 09:50 AM	#19
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Unlicensed Dremel, when dealing with wild hogs, very little is un-ethical. I liken controlling them to controlling rats in my barn. Watching a rat die from rat poison is not exactly pleasant to watch, but its necessary. Wild hog is the same way. It is a nuisance that destroys crops, fields, and runs game animals away. Kill them clean or get them with Gangrene, its all on the table when dealing with that nuisance. Think big barn rat. For the record, I have never shot a hog I did not find. Having said that, I would not lose 1/2 seconds sleep if I did not clean kill one and it got away.

April 2, 2014, 09:48 PM	#21
NCummins Member Join Date: February 9, 2014 Posts: 92	I wouldn't lose sleep over wounding a hog. Sure I'd try to find it but if I couldn't oh well. No different than a mouse or rat, except they don't eat very well. Do you glue trap mice/rats? Do you eat them after you kill them? Poison them? Rats and mice are mighty smart, and last I checked mammals as well.

April 3, 2014, 08:36 AM	#22
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	Easy fellers, my hunt looks like its going to fall through anyhow. While I certainly don't advocate intentionally gut shooting critters etc. During an eradication effort if I have a shot at the south end of a north bound hog, I will put a bullet right at the base of his tail, will it be an instant clean kill, no but it will allow me to follow him up and finish him off. I don't like losing any animal I have shot whether its a squirrel or a deer, but beating this up as an ethical argument isn't going to do anything but rile some folks up.

April 4, 2014, 07:09 PM	#23
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Dremel, there are soybean fields around here where every night the hunters open up on the deer with spot lights and ar-15's. They dont recover half of them, but they save hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of soy beans. People find deer regularly a couple miles away from those fields that have traveled that far and died. Does not hurt my moral compass. Farmer has to make a living. If you feel sorry for hogs, you need to come deal with some of the damage they cause around here. Wounding the hog to die days later or letting a pack of dogs bite the hog to death over 20 minutes? I see very little difference in the two.

April 5, 2014, 08:22 AM	#24
upstate81 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2011 Location: NY Posts: 801	Thats funny because we do the same in our apple orchards. People have no idea the impact deer, hogs or any other animal can have on someones living. Our farm provides a life for four families. We have no time for wild anuimals screwing that up. Yes we have permits and all our freezers are full life is good

April 6, 2014, 11:13 PM	#25
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	If you use the 55 gr. Barns. Load for the faster rounds. This week I shot at a 3/8 steel target with the barns 45 gr in my Hornet moving at about 2900 FPS The damage was half penetration. Load them hotter. My lighter loads just ding the plate. You won't like a ****** off razor tucker shredding your jeans. Make sure your clip is full. You will be on the edge of low power. I would go with a heavier slug for safety. Are you going to entertain or to kill?