50% fail rate - Page 2

mehavey · May 27, 2012, 05:26 PM

Forget any diagrams Coyote

adjust the seater/taper-crimp operation to where the mouth becomes no less
than 0.469" and no more than 0.471". (it's much easier than it might sound.)

Then do the classic "plunk" test with the dissembled barrel as here:
(turn the sound up and listen starting ~ 1:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdJLNox1hpk

"Plunk" is a measure of goodness right up there w/ "Bang!".

m&p45acp10+1 · May 27, 2012, 06:02 PM

If you still have one of the fired cases then see if it will chamber.

Make sure your barrel is clear. Fire the primered case. If the primer pops then it means that your primers were not fully seated.

If you have the problem again try firing it again. Most times it will fire. The first strike seats the primer the rest of the way, though it did not crush the compound in it to make it fire. The second strike usualy does the trick.

Coyote WT · May 27, 2012, 08:47 PM

mehavey: Thanks for the plunk test! Absolute genius in its simplicity!

flashhole · May 28, 2012, 04:36 AM

I like the plunk test too thanks for sharing. Doesn't get any more practical than that. Do you measure the barrel chamber and gage to compare. Seems that if they were exact the gage is all you would need.

mehavey · May 28, 2012, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Do you measure the barrel chamber and gage to compare.[?]
Seems that if they were exact the gage is all you would need.

The barrel is the real gauge. (And by definition you have one)

Barrels give better "plunk" anyway.

**Unclenick** · May 28, 2012, 08:19 AM

Coyote WT,

When in doubt, you can always look at the official SAAMI drawing. Just go here, then click on Cartridge and Chamber Drawings at the top of the list, then select the category (Pistol and Revolver for .45 ACP) then scroll through the list until you find the name of your cartridge, then click on it. This will get you the official cartridge and chamber drawings. The only point you have to be mindful of that confuses some folks on the first visit is that the cartridge dimensions are maximums with a minus tolerance, while chamber drawings are a minimum with a plus tolerance. That's so the stated dimensions represent the tightest allowed fit under SAAMI/ANSI standards, and are therefore treated as critical limits.

For the .45 ACP, you'll note the mouth of the loaded (not resized) case, with bullet in place, is given as a diameter of 0.473". A separate note tells you that all diameters have a default tolerance of -0.006", with exceptions where noted (the bullet, with -0.003" tolerance; the rim and extractor groove, with -0.010" tolerance). So the diameter at the mouth of the finished round is 0.473" -0.006", or, stated as I did before, 0.467"-0.473".

Flashhole,

I don't bother with a separate gauge. I think I'd have to make my own. The Wilson/Lyman type don't constrain diameters fully, just lengths, and the barrel is too easy a way to manage that.

Nick

chris in va · May 28, 2012, 11:09 AM

I'll also say that Wolf primers have demonstrated a high 'dud' rate in my experience, if that's what you are using.

**Unclenick** · May 28, 2012, 02:52 PM

I've had no issues with the Russian primers except you need to be careful to be sure they're fully seated, as they can be a little snug. With some cases, even though they had no primer crimp, I have run them through my primer pocket swager anyway to make the Russian primers fit a little more easily.

Uncle Buck · May 31, 2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:
A friend brought over ten rounds he had made, which had failed to fire. The primers showed a little tiny mark from where the firing pin had lightly struck the primer. We reset the primers deeper and then he tried to fire them again.

Uncle Buck, if you reset primers in loaded rounds, then I hereby present you with the year's Darwin Award!! I'm sure you left out the part where you pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, then reseated the primers!!

LoL @ Eldorendo

You are correct, and I sometimes forget that what I write is not what I meant to say.

We have the dud and we want to see if the problem is with the primer(s), I will pull the bullet and pour the powder. I will then try to re-seat the primer deeper in the case and put the empty cartridge in the gun and fire it.

Although I have never heard of a primer seating tool actually setting off a primer, I suppose it could happen. I just do not want it to happen to me. Yes Eldorendo, I try to err on the side of caution, thanks for pointing out something that needed clarifying.

serf 'rett · May 31, 2012, 10:37 AM

Working through my third carton on Wolf/Tula primers and they have been 100%, but they are snug fitting little suckers. Will be ordering more.

Any chance the rounds are being crimped enough for the cartridge to be moving forward and thereby absorbing the striker pin energy?

I've experienced no problems with my striker fired Springfield XDm to date, but with only around 4K rounds fired, it's just getting broke in.

May 27, 2012, 06:02 PM	#27
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	If you still have one of the fired cases then see if it will chamber. Make sure your barrel is clear. Fire the primered case. If the primer pops then it means that your primers were not fully seated. If you have the problem again try firing it again. Most times it will fire. The first strike seats the primer the rest of the way, though it did not crush the compound in it to make it fire. The second strike usualy does the trick. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

May 27, 2012, 08:47 PM	#28
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	mehavey: Thanks for the plunk test! Absolute genius in its simplicity! __________________ Coyote WalkingTall 91/30 Mosin Nagant, P95 Ruger M&P S&W .38, Savage 111 30.06 Springfield XD .45

May 28, 2012, 04:36 AM	#29
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	I like the plunk test too thanks for sharing. Doesn't get any more practical than that. Do you measure the barrel chamber and gage to compare. Seems that if they were exact the gage is all you would need. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

May 28, 2012, 08:19 AM	#31
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Coyote WT, When in doubt, you can always look at the official SAAMI drawing. Just go here, then click on Cartridge and Chamber Drawings at the top of the list, then select the category (Pistol and Revolver for .45 ACP) then scroll through the list until you find the name of your cartridge, then click on it. This will get you the official cartridge and chamber drawings. The only point you have to be mindful of that confuses some folks on the first visit is that the cartridge dimensions are maximums with a minus tolerance, while chamber drawings are a minimum with a plus tolerance. That's so the stated dimensions represent the tightest allowed fit under SAAMI/ANSI standards, and are therefore treated as critical limits. For the .45 ACP, you'll note the mouth of the loaded (not resized) case, with bullet in place, is given as a diameter of 0.473". A separate note tells you that all diameters have a default tolerance of -0.006", with exceptions where noted (the bullet, with -0.003" tolerance; the rim and extractor groove, with -0.010" tolerance). So the diameter at the mouth of the finished round is 0.473" -0.006", or, stated as I did before, 0.467"-0.473". Flashhole, I don't bother with a separate gauge. I think I'd have to make my own. The Wilson/Lyman type don't constrain diameters fully, just lengths, and the barrel is too easy a way to manage that. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; May 28, 2012 at 08:48 AM.

May 28, 2012, 02:52 PM	#33
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I've had no issues with the Russian primers except you need to be careful to be sure they're fully seated, as they can be a little snug. With some cases, even though they had no primer crimp, I have run them through my primer pocket swager anyway to make the Russian primers fit a little more easily. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 27, 2012, 05:26 PM	#26
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	Forget any diagrams Coyote adjust the seater/taper-crimp operation to where the mouth becomes no less than 0.469" and no more than 0.471". (it's much easier than it might sound.) Then do the classic "plunk" test with the dissembled barrel as here: (turn the sound up and listen starting ~ 1:50) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdJLNox1hpk "Plunk" is a measure of goodness right up there w/ "Bang!".

May 28, 2012, 11:09 AM	#32
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I'll also say that Wolf primers have demonstrated a high 'dud' rate in my experience, if that's what you are using.

May 31, 2012, 10:37 AM	#35
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Working through my third carton on Wolf/Tula primers and they have been 100%, but they are snug fitting little suckers. Will be ordering more. Any chance the rounds are being crimped enough for the cartridge to be moving forward and thereby absorbing the striker pin energy? I've experienced no problems with my striker fired Springfield XDm to date, but with only around 4K rounds fired, it's just getting broke in. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.