Blood Thirsty Pack of Dogs

[Tyrant]

I watched the local officer attemp ward off a pitbull with pepper spray. I could see he was making direct contact with the animals face but it continued to attack. He ended up shooting the dog.
Animals should be contained to a yard or on a leash. If loose and aggressive, they should be shot or captured and put down.

[TailGator]

I have raised two dogs, and a cat

Please don't be offended, but the simple truth is that you are debating with people with far more experience, training, and qualifications than that.

Thinking about it, planning, making preparations to kill...now that is blood thirsty. And only we humans do that.

Your statement has been refuted by at least one veterinarian, several dog trainers, and many other people who have related accurate and valid observations to the contrary. Repeating it without support after such refutations does not enhance its veracity or credibility. For your own safety, please abandon the thought that all dogs except the rabid are benign, harmless, and of no threat to you or others.

[Onward Allusion]

fightingbard
Dear MLeake,
There is one other thing that amazes me as much. And that is people making assumptions about people that they do not know..
For instance, I have raised two dogs, and a cat. At one point in my life (for about 10 years) my family owned a ranch in a godforsaken place near nowhere, where we had aprox. 300 sheep, two horses and everything else you can think of.
Nearest village was about 15 km away, and at most nights all we hear were the sound of coyotes , and sometimes wolves.
To get back to the point...
In this thread I understood that there are a lot of people that feel themselves threatened by packs of dogs.
I know the feeling of being threatened so I understand it. No argument there...
Myself on the other never felt this way, among dogs. Whether there is one dog, or a pack.
I am a citizen of a country, where dogs do not get caught even if they have no owner, so there are dogs everywhere (I am not arguing here, that this is right or wrong), but alas maybe by some very fortunate luck, I have never seen any dog, like many mentioned in this thread.
Also I will never frame a living soul as blood thirsty, just because they have instincts.
Thinking about it, planning, making preparations to kill...now that is blood thirsty. And only we humans do that.
Finally I simply say that, I never did feel threatened bu dogs (except just one time) and do not plan to be.
Unless it/they seem to be "rabid dogs"

You are definitely entitled to your beliefs, however, when they go contrary to that of professionals, statistics, and those with first hand experience, I would have to question the logic. I am reminded of something I had said to one of my associates. It went something like - "Is it really possible or probable that everyone else has a problem when they all state that they feel you are not approachable and are afraid to speak with you?"

Perhaps those in the US are less tolerant of feral or vicious animals. Different strokes...

[THplanes]

Also I will never frame a living soul as blood thirsty, just because they have instincts.
Thinking about it, planning, making preparations to kill...now that is blood thirsty. And only we humans do that.

Pure nonsense, chimpanzees have been observed making preparations and engaging in warfare. If they can isolate a member of the enemy, they will kill it. If you've ever wondered why pet chimps that attack their owners go after the face and genitals, it's because that's what they when making war against another troop.

For many years dead seals have washed up on beaches. They appear to have been killed by blunt force trauma. Boats are the obvious possibility, except that there are multiple areas of bruising. Someone finally observed the cause. Porpoises were killing them and not for food. They gave the appearance that they did it simply for fun. There own version of a blood sport.

[cnimrod]

MLeake - "When I was a kid, my friend's Siberian Husky got loose, and broke into another neighbor's rabbit hutch. Killed every last rabbit. My friend's parents paid for the rabbits, and also had to place the dog on a farm somewhere."

Must be a big farm, cause that's where our Springer Spaniel that bit everyone in the family (father last) ended up

RIP Penny

[jhenry]

Thinking, planning, and working in concert to kill also happens daily with wild canines. Wolves and African Hunting Dogs come to mind. Now, where do we get our modern canines from? Ah yes, wolves. Assuming or asserting that animals do not do such things because they do not plan or work together on the same level of sophistication as humans do is silly.

[TXGunNut]

Had to "retrain" a neighbor's dog tonight. A couple I know came over to look at another neighbor's horses and a big dog came running over, barking and growling. I drew, yelled and it turned but it came back again with another big dog. I drew again and put a .380 bullet at the lead dog's forefeet, pelting it with dirt clods. They went home. Funny part was I only stopped briefly mid-sentence to conduct the "training" and then continued the conversation. My little dog didn't seem at all concerned, just went about his business. Friend was kinda surprised but his wife seemed quite relieved.

[jhenry]

I have given quite a few dogs a surprise like that. It does work. Another trick to use on an annoying dog, but not yet to the attack point, is to simply stoop a bit and pick up a rock. You can even pretend to pick up a rock if one is not available, they are not bright enough to tell the difference. Most any loose country dog has been rocked a time or two and have found it to be unpleasant. They will skedaddle and quick. If not, go to plan B. I do not advocate stooping to get a rock with a clearly aggressive dog in close quarters, this would be silly.

I am very surprised a dog thread has remained open this long, they usually devolve into nonsense posts and get locked.

[TXGunNut]

I'm lousy @ throwing rocks, jhenry. And these dogs were getting a bit close so I wouldn't want to tie up my strong hand with throwing duties, ineffective as they would be. If I didn't like dogs so much I wouldn't bother with warning shots, hauling them off is a bit tiresome as well.

[FrontSight]

Dear Jerry,

Animals (that do not have a developed brain telling themselves that they are something else) does not have a perception as "joy of killing."
They kill only in these circumstances:

1. They need food, and you are of size that they instinctively estimate as prey.
2. They feel that, themselves or their offspring are under threat.

Children and elderly or sick, can sometimes seem as prey to wild animals, but I very much suspect this situation can occur regarding dogs, unless they have somehow did this before. (hunting and eating human, by some bizarre incident)

Dogs are very much domesticated animals that have been living among humans for so long time, that, to put it simply: They know us...
They know that we can not be their meal of choice...
We are big, and we fight back...

To summarize:
They have no perception as joy of killing, they know we fight back, so the only logical explanation is that, if they behave aggressively it means they feel a threat from us.
I am only suggesting that, "you have to show that you are not a threat".
In most cases, this will simply do the trick.

On the other hand, irregularities and as mentioned before bizarre encounters sometimes happen, but to talk about them would be nothing more than speculating.

All the best

Um, wow. All I can say is that, as others have pointed out, you are very, very dead wrong. And that is saying it nicely.

[ExMP]

2 years ago, our then neighbors had a pit bull. It was rarely chained up, but stayed in its own yard mostly.

Out of the blue, I hear my son (then 10) let out a blood-curdling scream. He came running around the corner, dog hot on his heels. I sprang forward (pretty good for an old fat guy) and got between them, punching as hard as I could, clipping the dog in the right eye. It kept trying to get around me to bite my son. I reached in my pocket and got out my 3" easy open pocket knife, and started stabbing. I stabbed and slashed until the dog was dead. Freakishly, I had no bite wounds, lightspeed fat man.

My wife had called the police, who arrived just as the owners deigned to notice that their dog was lying in a pool of blood....in my yard. Dude came out of his house with a baseball bat, ready to do me in. Needless to say, he was drawn on and arrested. Animal Control arrived and scooped up the dog for testing, thankfully, no rabies. These neighbors left very soon after. I guess watching me clean my collection on the front porch had some impact after I had received many a death stare.

Dogs are not safe, no matter what you think. There is something, anything out there that could be their impetus to go postal. Heck, my brother has a rottweiler that will chew your hand off if you say "B*tch", no clue why.

IMHO, on your property being aggressive, kill them. On your farm, kill them, don't wait for lost livestock.

Oh, the neighbors also received $4000 in Animal Control citations. No insurance, no fence, no license, no warning signs and some others. They didn't think they needed any of that stuff, as "Fluffy" was the sweetest thing ever.

[DRBoyle]

That's a hair raising experience ExMP. Something someone else mentioned earlier about fine motor skills being effected ties into using the knife. Sure it would have been better to have that loaded gun. The thing is if you had been caught off guard to the point of losing fine motor skills that simpler stabbing motion might be your last and best bet. The overall point is that people should at the very least have the right to access firearms as part of a range of tools they can use. Need it be said that the firearm isn't the thermonuclear device the anti's want us to believe. Good to read you and your son came out unscathed by that experience.

[BUFF]

The only thing worse than a pack of dogs roaming around looking for trouble is a pack of people roaming around looking for trouble.

Dogs on the prowl looking to attack get zero sympathy or a second thought from me. If you or your loved ones are being attacked...let the lead fly. Get as many as you can. Stand your ground and fight like a banshee. I like dogs, but I will put one down quick. If your neighbors come over to yell at you for killing their "big sweetie", tell em you're gonna whip their @$$ too for letting it happen.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Coming in late to this conversation but the motivations of animals has been incorrectly analyzed by some who claim that that animals don't aggress except for prey or threat.

There is a large body of evidence that animals that have been subject to aggression will attack other animals in a displaced aggression. So if any animal had a bad day and runs into you, it can attack you. Big books and articles on it. Neuroscience of the effect has been worked out.

For examples, young elephants who have been dissed by the boss elephant will go find a rhino and kill it.

[SRH78]

Dogs and people are far more alike than many care to admit.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My old world mother-in-law told her daughters that Men and Dogs Walk the Same Path.

[chadstrickland]

dont enjoy shooting another persons pet at all...and wont do it normally unless im with some little bits ( kids ) and they start to attack im quick to put them down...but if im by myself or with people that can handle themselves then there isnt much a good kick or a big stick wont fix...owner would much rather have a living dog with a lump on its head than a dead one...and on the subject of wild dogs running around in a city...thats a scary thought...you are limited in your defence options ( cant have a m4 on your back )...maybe a knife or pistol....but i know out here in the country a coyot really aint all that to be afraid of..heck they normally break and run as soon as they hear you much less haul butt when they see you...the curious ones you have to look after...but what i do keep a sharp eye out for is a wild dog...there is a difference..a wild dog is not afraid of humans and wont normally run away..those you got to be careful with.....kill them as soon as you see them....to me the worst part is that if there in the city and you do have to shoot is that you best pray you have a good backstop....be a good time to have a smith and wesson governor ( im not buying a judge )

[youngunz4life]

and on a side note, sometimes a 'bad life' as one small example can leave an animal unable to be reinstated in society: they'll literally bite the hand off a child who goes near their food, so they must be euthanized. bottom line up front, there are many factors besides threats and prey.

I guess it's lots common sense anyways, as a younger, more unaware pup, dog, whatever might kill someone while just playing & possibly not meaning any harm(especially with his/her buddies).

[BlackFeather]

I've been attacked by far too many dogs to believe some of the ideas here. I have had a dog jump a six foot fence to charge me. Another dog pushed through a wooden fence and managed to put my thigh in it's mouth, I was protecting a younger female friend at the time so I was vulnerable. Lowering yourself to a threatening dog is suicide, as was mentioned. You are far better off moving forward in a threatening manner, but only if it's moving towards you. At a distance guns are the best bet, obviously. Sprays will deter most domesticated animals but I would bet that rabid or starving animals are going to respond differently.

I personally believe that contact weapons are better for dealing with dogs because they are going to be on you faster than most people realize. Sticks, canes, and knives seem best. For the older gentlemen I'd suggest a metal cane along with a decent fixed blade. Preferably as an addition to a gun. Knives and Machetes are tools, along with hammer, hatchets, and axes. You can have a Machete in a park, contrary to popular belief.

Feral animals are hungry, domesticated animals are territorial and looking for a fight, diseased animals are reacting to a threat, YOU. Not all animals with Rabies are aggressive, learn the signs and you could save someone. Last time I dealt with it the police didn't bother helping, so I solved it myself.

I hate to sound like I know it all, because I don't, I just didn't see much clarification in this thread, and a few stupid ideas.

[BGutzman]

When I was stationed in Central America my ex wife had family that apparently felt the best way to make a good guard dog was to have non family members kick it every time they came by.

Poor dog apparently got kicked daily from the time it was a puppy. I knew nothing about it except the dog was slobbery wet trying to bite anyone and everyone that was not a part of the immediate family that my ex grew up with.

One day they moved the dog and I had no idea, I walked past a tree and felt motion from the left and I stepped to the right and the dog ripped the top part of my jeans pocket just slightly as I was at the end of his length of chain. (I had no idea he was there and he didnt growl or anything else prior, maybe he had been alseep, I frankly dont know)

I had no firearms in country and I bought a container of mace and a neck knife. (after this event)

I also explained to my ex wifes family my great concern if my young kids or a neighbors kids were attacked by this dog he would tear them apart, then I got the guard dog story.

From this time forward I kept my mace keychain in my hand when we were at her parents, sure enough one day the dog got off the chain and went after me and my kids while we were getting in my car and I hit that poor dog with a perfect shot of mace in the face at about 3 1/2 feet and a side kick to boot as my kids scrambled to get in the car.

The dog was stunned just enough that I was able to get in my car and backup with a furry of growling.

The dog had to be taken to the vet and on principal alone I refused to pay her family for the charges. From that day forward the dog was kept in the far back part of the yard when my family was around..

I love dogs so it pained me deeply and the dog was not in control of what the humans had done to it but I still had to protect myself and my family...

[OkieGentleman]

Get yourself several cans of wasp spray. Have them handy by the door so when you go out they are there, do not leave in a hot car. No one can complain about you having a can of wasp spray on you, no matter where you go. Keep it in a shopping bag. Just say you are deathly allergic to wasp stings if asked.

The jet spray shoots 25 to 35 ft, you can wave it around like a water hose and any dogs behind the lead dogs will get a good nose full even if you do not hit them with it. It is poison and you might actually put down some of the blasted animals or at least teach them not to have a go at old men.

Never scare an old man, he will just kill you and be done with it!!

I,m 67 and had two strokes recently. I am not going to stand and let you beat on me without some response.

When my youngest brother was about 2 we lived in the country. I walked out on the back porch one summer day and saw on old black hound stalking the child. When I yelled,the dog stopped, growled at me and crouched like it was going to jump at me. I yelled again and it moved away and ran behind some of the cars parked by the house. I grabbed the rifle by the door and chambered a round and as it ran between two of the cars I shot. It made it to the end of the drive before it died of one 22 LR thru the heart. I should not have taken the shot, but it worked out ok.

[Wag]

Fightingbard,

You demonstrate an extreme lack of experience with dogs in packs. Whoever deigns to follow your assumptions are going to get killed. You speak as if you have some ideas you believe but do not have knowledge of such things. I hate to be rude or blunt and it's rare that I'll take that approach but you do not know what you're talking about.

I grew up with a great many dogs on the farm. At any given time, we always had at least 10 or 15 dogs on the premises, the varying numbers were because once in a while, they'd tree a cougar or some damn thing and a couple of them would get killed. Regardless, once the bloodlust is upon them, they are completely unpredictable but GENERALLY SPEAKING, they will not back off for very many reasons. The sound of a pack of dogs fighting a mountain lion or even a raccoon is blood chilling and terrifying and be assured, there is very little you can do to stop them.

One thing I have seen on occasion is that if you shoot ONE of the dogs and you don't kill it, ie, it is wounded and yelping, the remaining dogs in the pack will OCCASIONALLY turn on the wounded dog and kill it instead of you. This generally is only effective if they are still a ways off. On OCCASSION, the sound of the gunshot is enough to stop them in their tracks but only if they are familiar with the sound of a gun and what that could mean to them.

It's useless to speculate on the probable motivations of the dogs in the pack. Nobody will ever be able to say what gets them started or what keeps them going. Smell of blood? Frenzy of the dog mob? They can't tell us. There are probably many "reasons" (if you can even say that a dog has any reasoning ability at all) or causes. But we will never know. It's enough to know that they can and will become killers and the underlying, driving force cannot be reckoned.

I've seen dogs attack cattle, deer, cougars, skunks, porcupines, cats, bobcats, raccoons, etc. etc. It's never a pretty sight and frankly, with all the stories I've read about dogs attacking humans, I fail to see that their behavior is different. That is to say, a dog pack attacking a human is not concerned about being their best friend and they are there to kill. Instinct, I expect, is the driving force in a pack attack but I can't say for certain, nor do I believe anyone is able to do so.

We had some small success with spraying ammonia into a dog's face to get them to back down and come to their senses. If the bear spray works, go for it. Pepper spray, mace, etc. have reportedly had some success. Guns are what I would consider to be the more ideal solution and I agree that shotguns, pump especially, are going to be very effective.

--Wag--

[Buzzcook]

For many years dead seals have washed up on beaches. They appear to have been killed by blunt force trauma. Boats are the obvious possibility, except that there are multiple areas of bruising. Someone finally observed the cause. Porpoises were killing them and not for food. They gave the appearance that they did it simply for fun. There own version of a blood sport.

Top predators kill other top predators. It isn't mindless blood sport.

[thallub]

It is fashionable in this part of OK to take unwanted dogs out into the country and turn them loose. The dogs that are not killed by the coyotes and hogs often attack livestock and sometimes, people. Our sheriff's dep't does not have a dog warden. This county is larger than the state of RI. We take care feral dogs ourselves and our sheriff encourages that.

i've killed several dogs that were threatening livestock. i hunt a lot and have been attacked by feral dogs several times; once by a pack of five dogs: i killed all those dogs with my SKS. Last time i was attacked was in 2008: The dog was a huge Samoyed: It came after me while i was opening a gate. Got back into the truck, capped my muzzleloader and killed that dog.

If i find a dog chasing deer or livestock, it is a dead dog, collar or not.

[bigkrackers]

I didn't read every post in this thread so hopefully this all isn't a repeat.

If it were me, I would have multiple layers of defense. I would get a big walking stick made from good quality hardwood. I would carry a double stack auto in a caliber I'm very comfortable with and practice a lot. I would also carry some form of mace but in a stream form not fog. Any defense spray that fogs or mists would not be a good option as you will almost always get some blown back at you and unless you have practiced fighting through getting a face full of the stuff it will do more harm than good.

Anyway you cut it, with a multiple dog attack, (unless you have a shotgun or auto rifle) you are probably going to end up on the ground at some point. I'd carry a good fixed blade hunting knife as well now that I think about it. Nothing too long, maybe 3 to 4 in.

I would then practice what and how I would use each weapon in multiple attack scenarios making sure everything is within easy reach and can be used effectively.