Stock too long for trap?

Lavan · February 8, 2000, 03:17 PM

I have just gone back to trapshooting after 3 years away. I have been too cheap to cut my stock to make up for the adjustable pad I always used.
Now I am reducing it to comfort length.
Question: Which targets will a too long stock cause you to miss? I shoot right handed. It......SEEMS.......that I was missing the left birds more.

Dave McC · February 9, 2000, 09:15 AM

IME,tho no trap whiz,a longer stock raises the pattern, not messes with it L/R. Try patterning and see where it's hitting,if you haven't done it already.

Most trap guns I've seen have slightly longer stocks than field guns, while slower to mount that's not a problem w/ trap.

Art Eatman · February 9, 2000, 10:36 AM

Dunno 'bout Trap, specifically, although I've shot a few rounds...But in bird-hunting, a short stock makes you shoot high; a long stock makes you shoot low.

I used to quail hunt with my wife's 20-gauge because bobwhites are rising birds, and the short stock helped me shoot "high enough".

I'm guessing that since in Trap the targets are generally beginning to fall by the time most shooters get on and fire, a longer stock helps in leading "under" the claybird. Dunno; just guessing.

FWIW, Art

Hueco · February 9, 2000, 02:46 PM

Mr. Eatman, you said, "I'm guessing that since in Trap the targets are generally beginning to fall by the time most shooters get on and fire, a longer stock helps in leading "under" the claybird. Dunno; just guessing." Well...this is true if you are shooting trap incorrectly. The only consistent way to shoot trap is get on the bird when it is rising. Most all birds act the same when climbing. It is when they peak out, hover, and start to fall that they take on a mind of their own. In trap, you want a high-shooting gun. This is why the specialized trap-guns have high-ribs. On a regular ol' pumpgun with a midbead and an endbead, you should "sight" with the mid's top touching the end's bottom. I am not sure how the stock length changes "aim," but I am sure that a proper trap gun should be shooting consistently high. I belive the number is 60% above and 40% below. I am not even sure that the length changes this at all. I have heard (and practiced this) that one ought to keep the non-shooting hand in close -- not have it way out extended. This is to improve response time. So on a rising bird (L, R, or center), a quicker response time would mean that you will be above and lead-out (if you move fast enough). I think most people run into trouble when they have their hand too far out and end up shooting below or behind the bird. Try it out, take a shotgun and put your hand out as far as you can get it and do some swings. Then put it in as far as it will go. Which is faster and easier? Well for me -- the closer. When mounting a gun for trap, I ALWAYS err to the side of too close (but keeping it comfortable). When your hand is closer to your body, there is less distance for it to travel on a swing. That means quicker and faster. When you increase the radius -- the perimeter gets bigger. The larger the perimeter, the longer it takes to travel on it at a given rate.

To sum up, I don't that the length matters too much (other than a longer stock weighs more). What matters it hand placement and comfort. Oh and Mr. Eatman, you have only shot a "few rounds" of trap? Oh dear. For every round of trap you shoot, you not only add a smile-a-day...but at LEAST a year to your life! Yes, trap just might be the fountain of youth!

Hueco

Art Eatman · February 11, 2000, 10:48 AM

Hueco. Thanks! I guess (I do that a lot.) that as you get better, you get on-target quicker and shoot sooner--and thus you're on the claybird as it is still rising. As with all shooting, practice, practice, practice!

I clamp my clay-bird thrower to my back porch. When I yell, "Pull!", I'm mostly talking to myself, which makes for "the busies". I do manage to hit the little critters fairly often, though.

Regards, Art

Hueco · February 11, 2000, 04:17 PM

You are most welcome Mr. Eatman! Man you are lucky to be able to shoot trap so close!!! I do something that has helped my score tremedously. After a few weeks of shooting, I learned the trajectories of the birds. Now if I see it going left...I just head that direction FAST and not worry about trying to be on the right path line. For me, the quicker I am on that sucker, the better my score is. So, as soon as I simply know the basic direction (which is only L, R, or C) I just go that way. I don't worry about height, only getting caught up with the bird as fast as I can. And this way (swinging quickly and aggressively) I do not have to consciously compensate leads. When the body is moving so quickly, it is very hard to stop it. When you are ready to pull the trigger, your body automatically keeps moving to follow through. Does any of this make sense? Sorry, I know I am not a great teacher.

Let me know if you need...some clarification on this muddy post! Take it easy and have a good one!!

Hueco

Art Eatman · February 12, 2000, 09:47 PM

Hueco: Yeah, I follow what you're saying.

Something that I never expected to be so helpful to me in shotgunning on birds was IPSC pistol competition.

Going against a clock is like your effort at speed onto the target. And "Front sight, press!" is much like bird-shooting, if the stock fits...

, Art

Hueco · February 13, 2000, 11:29 PM

This has been a fun thread; I think we all definately need more trap/skeet/sc posts on this forum!!

Now, has anyone come to a conclusion about stock length yet?

Hueco

Art Eatman · February 14, 2000, 08:01 PM

Yes.

John Satterwhite told me that the shotgun stock is the rear sight. That's why the length is important.

Every book I've ever read, and the few people besides John whom I've talked to, commented as I did in my original post.

Again: Close your eyes and mount the gun to your shoulder. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right along the center of the rib, and your line of sight should be very close--vertical direction--to it.

If you're off to the side, the cast-off is not right. If you're high (with a proper "weld") the drop at the comb is not right.

Now, trap guns appear to have a rib which is mounted higher above the barrel than usual. This gets the eye above the usual line of sight--or so it appears--which would make you shoot high. Now, a longer buttstock will make you shoot low. Is it that high rib + long buttstock = shooting correctly? There is some other advantage to this system than what is apparent to my own level of ignorance? 'Cause I sure don't know the why of it....

Art

February 8, 2000, 03:17 PM	#1
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	I have just gone back to trapshooting after 3 years away. I have been too cheap to cut my stock to make up for the adjustable pad I always used. Now I am reducing it to comfort length. Question: Which targets will a too long stock cause you to miss? I shoot right handed. It......SEEMS.......that I was missing the left birds more.

February 9, 2000, 09:15 AM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	IME,tho no trap whiz,a longer stock raises the pattern, not messes with it L/R. Try patterning and see where it's hitting,if you haven't done it already. Most trap guns I've seen have slightly longer stocks than field guns, while slower to mount that's not a problem w/ trap.

February 9, 2000, 10:36 AM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Dunno 'bout Trap, specifically, although I've shot a few rounds...But in bird-hunting, a short stock makes you shoot high; a long stock makes you shoot low. I used to quail hunt with my wife's 20-gauge because bobwhites are rising birds, and the short stock helped me shoot "high enough". I'm guessing that since in Trap the targets are generally beginning to fall by the time most shooters get on and fire, a longer stock helps in leading "under" the claybird. Dunno; just guessing. FWIW, Art

February 9, 2000, 02:46 PM	#4
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	Mr. Eatman, you said, "I'm guessing that since in Trap the targets are generally beginning to fall by the time most shooters get on and fire, a longer stock helps in leading "under" the claybird. Dunno; just guessing." Well...this is true if you are shooting trap incorrectly. The only consistent way to shoot trap is get on the bird when it is rising. Most all birds act the same when climbing. It is when they peak out, hover, and start to fall that they take on a mind of their own. In trap, you want a high-shooting gun. This is why the specialized trap-guns have high-ribs. On a regular ol' pumpgun with a midbead and an endbead, you should "sight" with the mid's top touching the end's bottom. I am not sure how the stock length changes "aim," but I am sure that a proper trap gun should be shooting consistently high. I belive the number is 60% above and 40% below. I am not even sure that the length changes this at all. I have heard (and practiced this) that one ought to keep the non-shooting hand in close -- not have it way out extended. This is to improve response time. So on a rising bird (L, R, or center), a quicker response time would mean that you will be above and lead-out (if you move fast enough). I think most people run into trouble when they have their hand too far out and end up shooting below or behind the bird. Try it out, take a shotgun and put your hand out as far as you can get it and do some swings. Then put it in as far as it will go. Which is faster and easier? Well for me -- the closer. When mounting a gun for trap, I ALWAYS err to the side of too close (but keeping it comfortable). When your hand is closer to your body, there is less distance for it to travel on a swing. That means quicker and faster. When you increase the radius -- the perimeter gets bigger. The larger the perimeter, the longer it takes to travel on it at a given rate. To sum up, I don't that the length matters too much (other than a longer stock weighs more). What matters it hand placement and comfort. Oh and Mr. Eatman, you have only shot a "few rounds" of trap? Oh dear. For every round of trap you shoot, you not only add a smile-a-day...but at LEAST a year to your life! Yes, trap just might be the fountain of youth! Hueco

February 11, 2000, 10:48 AM	#5
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Hueco. Thanks! I guess (I do that a lot.) that as you get better, you get on-target quicker and shoot sooner--and thus you're on the claybird as it is still rising. As with all shooting, practice, practice, practice! I clamp my clay-bird thrower to my back porch. When I yell, "Pull!", I'm mostly talking to myself, which makes for "the busies". I do manage to hit the little critters fairly often, though. Regards, Art

February 11, 2000, 04:17 PM	#6
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	You are most welcome Mr. Eatman! Man you are lucky to be able to shoot trap so close!!! I do something that has helped my score tremedously. After a few weeks of shooting, I learned the trajectories of the birds. Now if I see it going left...I just head that direction FAST and not worry about trying to be on the right path line. For me, the quicker I am on that sucker, the better my score is. So, as soon as I simply know the basic direction (which is only L, R, or C) I just go that way. I don't worry about height, only getting caught up with the bird as fast as I can. And this way (swinging quickly and aggressively) I do not have to consciously compensate leads. When the body is moving so quickly, it is very hard to stop it. When you are ready to pull the trigger, your body automatically keeps moving to follow through. Does any of this make sense? Sorry, I know I am not a great teacher. Let me know if you need...some clarification on this muddy post! Take it easy and have a good one!! Hueco

February 12, 2000, 09:47 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Hueco: Yeah, I follow what you're saying. Something that I never expected to be so helpful to me in shotgunning on birds was IPSC pistol competition. Going against a clock is like your effort at speed onto the target. And "Front sight, press!" is much like bird-shooting, if the stock fits... , Art

February 13, 2000, 11:29 PM	#8
Hueco Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 1999 Posts: 561	This has been a fun thread; I think we all definately need more trap/skeet/sc posts on this forum!! Now, has anyone come to a conclusion about stock length yet? Hueco

February 14, 2000, 08:01 PM	#9
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Yes. John Satterwhite told me that the shotgun stock is the rear sight. That's why the length is important. Every book I've ever read, and the few people besides John whom I've talked to, commented as I did in my original post. Again: Close your eyes and mount the gun to your shoulder. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right along the center of the rib, and your line of sight should be very close--vertical direction--to it. If you're off to the side, the cast-off is not right. If you're high (with a proper "weld") the drop at the comb is not right. Now, trap guns appear to have a rib which is mounted higher above the barrel than usual. This gets the eye above the usual line of sight--or so it appears--which would make you shoot high. Now, a longer buttstock will make you shoot low. Is it that high rib + long buttstock = shooting correctly? There is some other advantage to this system than what is apparent to my own level of ignorance? 'Cause I sure don't know the why of it.... Art