|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 29, 2011, 04:08 PM | #1 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 8, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,925
|
ATF just ruled your "tactical" shotgun illegal
Quote:
|
|
January 29, 2011, 04:14 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
No, the working group determined that shotguns with those features do not meet the "sporting purposes" requirement of GCA '68. Meaning that if they are foreign made they cannot be imported. Those already in country or that are made in the USA aren't covered by this regulation.
Of course this is just the determination of the working group at this point and not final regulation.
__________________
NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link) |
January 29, 2011, 04:15 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Location: Ninja Mall
Posts: 818
|
Is this the publication of the proposed rule? Or the rule itself?
__________________
E Pluribus Unum |
January 29, 2011, 04:16 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
This is the publication of their study, which is open for comment until May 1.
__________________
NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link) |
January 29, 2011, 04:16 PM | #5 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
My Tactical shotgun has none of those items. It is made in America so it wouldn't matter if it did.
My standard Mossberg 500, as tactical as it is, just doesn't have a single item mentioned. I am sure many of our Tactical shotguns are forever safe as they masquerade as innocent huntin' guns... As tactical as any gun in my hands could be... Brent |
January 29, 2011, 04:18 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Location: Ninja Mall
Posts: 818
|
Okay. Just read it again. It is the study to influence a proposed rule. I strongly urge everyone who's interested to send comments to the ATF. This is not law, and looks like a first step in a long agency procedure to change the 'sporting purpose' interpretation.
What I find disturbing is the extremely narrow construction of "sporting purpose" by the ATF, which basically dismisses IPSC, 3 Gun and other shooting sports as "non sporting" and instead adopts a position the only (legitimate) sporting purpose is duck hunting and clay shooting.
__________________
E Pluribus Unum Last edited by KChen986; January 30, 2011 at 12:11 AM. Reason: misinterpretation |
January 29, 2011, 04:26 PM | #7 |
Staff
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,382
|
Since discussion has opened on up this thread, I won't close it as a Cut & Paste shoot & scoot, which is clearly against TFL's rules of operation.
If you don't know what a Cut & Paste post is, click the forum rules link.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
January 29, 2011, 06:54 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 8, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,925
|
Sorry Mike, had just realized that and was coming back to start one...
|
January 29, 2011, 07:03 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area)
Posts: 1,506
|
they need to get rid of that sporting purpose BS, as it has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment...and is only used as incremental gun control.
__________________
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes" |
January 29, 2011, 07:05 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 21, 2006
Location: DFW Metromess
Posts: 562
|
Off topic, but Man I have GOT to get me one of those Home Simpson "holsters".
Back on topic: Recent events will make perfect grist for the anti gun mill. Expect all kinds of attacks on the Second Amendment.
__________________
“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller "Do not cry havoc when you should but hunt with modest warrant." --William Shakespeare Glock Certified Armorer NRA Life Member |
January 29, 2011, 07:19 PM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 8, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,925
|
Quote:
|
|
January 29, 2011, 08:25 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 19, 2009
Location: Loadbenchville, Bolt 02770
Posts: 544
|
I have a Mossberg 500 with Double Pistol Grip and holds a total of 8 rounds, so they'll be after mine, as I'd imagine that this "proposed" law will probably go thru, since they'll "give it to us" a little at a time, not all at once, and this issue falls into just that, I believe.
Maybe I should take heed, go ahead and convert it to either a slug gun or muzzleloader so I'll be legal when this hammer falls. |
January 29, 2011, 08:40 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
Your Mossberg is a domestically produced shotgun that you already own. How could it be affected by a proposed import ban?
__________________
NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link) |
January 29, 2011, 08:42 PM | #14 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
Christchild, the above is regarding an import ban. Basically it is similar to import rules that required a certain number of parts be replaced with american made items to circumvent these rule breaker items...
Brent |
January 29, 2011, 08:59 PM | #15 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
Can we merge all of these threads from all of the sections into one and suppress the BS scare mongering?
NOTHING has been banned...nada, zip, zilch...........they are doing a STUDY.......and basically so far agreeing with the intent of the previous studies from years past |
January 29, 2011, 09:35 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
|
Quote:
Folks need to read and think and not post whatever rumor they heard at the gun shop this morning. |
|
January 29, 2011, 09:43 PM | #17 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
|
Like rantingredneck said, this is neither a rule nor a proposed rule. It is a study done by a working group and the study conludes with the recommendation of the working group that conducted the study that
shotguns with any of the characteristics or features listed above not be authorized for importation. Last edited by TheKlawMan; January 30, 2011 at 01:13 AM. |
January 30, 2011, 12:43 AM | #18 |
Junior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, Va.
Posts: 7
|
Well, it caused a bit of a stir with folks that are fond of the Saiga 12. Bumped PSL/FPK rifle & Marlin SBL down a notch on the purchase queue and got a second Saiga 12 a little early.
|
January 30, 2011, 07:12 AM | #19 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
|
Quote:
Quote:
And that is all I am going to say about that.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war. |
||
January 30, 2011, 08:43 AM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
|
Quote:
|
|
January 30, 2011, 11:28 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 19, 2009
Location: Loadbenchville, Bolt 02770
Posts: 544
|
Thank You, Mr. Brent! I didn't click the link. I could have and read further, but the topic wasn't a surprise. I was WRONG about the details but it was not a surprise, considering all things.
ThreadJack is over! Carry On! |
January 30, 2011, 12:16 PM | #22 |
Member
Join Date: February 22, 2009
Posts: 32
|
The Saiga 12 as imported then wouldn't be affected, but as modified would be?
I'm already planning on getting one - they are amazing weapons, and the drum mag makes them really fun to shoot. Do you think those drum mags will be gone soon then? Probably should get one now I suppose. |
January 30, 2011, 12:31 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
|
Presumably, Norinco 97 Winchester trench gun copies will fall under such a ruling because they have bayonet lugs???
|
January 30, 2011, 03:48 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
|
Quote:
I've been doing more reading on this, and my guess is 922r and its parts count will apply to the S12; it's discussed a bit here and there. Thing is, as it is imported, the S12 is perfectly legal, since it is "sporting." If you make it nonsporting through a conversion, you need to have 10 or less imported parts. The S12 has about 13, maybe 14 (if threaded for chokes), parts as-is (according to the usual ATF count). Most conversions would mean swapping out no less than 5 parts (trigger group is 3 parts, plus the buttstock and pistol grip). Use US made mags, that's 3 more. Basically, use a US made trigger group and stock/pistol grip, and you're fine. Mine currently has 7 US parts swapped out (the 5 I mentioned, plus the handguard and muzzle device), so either way I'm fine. Here's a bit of a discussion on this, and from what I can tell, this will be nothing new for us. |
|
January 30, 2011, 03:59 PM | #25 |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Actually, look at the definition of "Destructive Device" in 921(b):
"(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter;" If it isn't a sporting purpose for importation purposes and the Attorney General is the sole person to make the determination, what stops it from being applied to domestic shotguns and making them NFA weapons. |
|
|