Rough Night

[Bigfatts]

C) Armed Security is also a No Go since according to police they would have to have a special security license

Yes they would have to be licensed security officers, you can't just get a little sticker that says SECURITY and go at it. All this means is that your boss cannot hire them directly unless he is licensed to do so, he would have to seek Security from an outside source, Wackenhut or some such, they are licensed to provide security.

And beware the Asp batons! A strike on any vital organ, the spine or above the shoulders has been ruled to be deadly force. It is the same as shooting someone. Not to say don't use it, just be careful where you whack 'em.

I think in your case, some type of Taser or something would be one of the most viable options.

[OuTcAsT]

any portion

if you walk in the door you are in violation.

[markj]

All this means is that your boss cannot hire them directly unless he is licensed to do so

My cousin is a Omaha police man, he works nights at a bar doing outside security, he carries but doesnt go in to the bar area. He is allowed to wear his uniform too, have you asked your boss if he can hire off duty LEO? IOt may be a solution if he can do so.

[Daniel BOON]

if somebody like that was threatening me, I would carry a handgun, probably 2 handguns on my person, and one in the car/pick up.
711 stop and robs policy is no handguns on your person while you are working, or you will lose your job. A 14 yr old boy was shot here after he and his friends ran from 2 men who tried to rob them;
would I carry a gun into a bar under your circumstances? you bet I would.

[tepin]

First, file a restraining order against the guy. This will help you in a court case. Doctrine of competing harms might be a (weak) defense that would justify (but not allow) you to carrying in the bar. Usually the owner of a business can authorize carry in the establishment just as you can carry in your home without permit.

Unlawful possession of a handgun does not eliminate your right to use deadly force to defend yourself against death or great bodily harm as long as ability, opportunity, jeopardy and preclusion exist. Talk to a lawyer that has worked self defense cases. Their advice would be best.

Others suggested Kevlar and I like the idea. Weapons or defense products used in crowded bars is not the ideal setting in any case.

[tepin]

Originally Posted by bigfatts

...And beware the Asp batons! A strike on any vital organ, the spine or above the shoulders has been ruled to be deadly force. It is the same as shooting someone. Not to say don't use it, just be careful where you whack 'em....

+1

In many States a baton of any type is a "club" and classed as a deadly weapon same as a gun and only LEO that have been trained and certified in such devices i.e. PR24 baton, can carry and use them. Just because they sell them at wal-mart etc... does not mean you can carry or use them.

[Kas]

Vest and batons as previously mentioned are good options.If a baton is not permissible,a 6 D Cell Maglite could serve the purpose as to "checking ID's".A cane might be another option, particularly if you have had a leg injury in the past.You might also consider carrying pepper exclusively for outdoor use.You would want a pepper spray that also contains CS gas(tear gas) Sabre is good brand.How about a "Stun gun?

[wolfmann]

If anything you and the other guys need to sit down and hash out a plan about how to handle this guy or any others for that matter.
Walking around freely in the parking lot is not a good idea,you are open on all sides and alone.
Having a Doorman is a good idea to keep a look out,have him ready to retreat and lock the doors.
But like I said you guys need to talk!
You need to KNOW what everyone thinks and how you will act in every scenario you can come up with.
While no plan is going to hold up when action starts you do need to have a starting place.
Work as a team.
Another thing you might do is ask the police if they can do some extra drive bys till things cool down they are usually more than willing to do so.

Had a friend who with a few other bouncers had to eject a guy from the strip club they were working,the guy tried to fight them as they got him outside, of course he didnt fare too well.
As the guy got in his car and drove past them he fliped them off then floored it and ran over my friend.
He was airlifted and survived but is still not 100% and probably never will be.
The guy was never caught.
Keep your back to the wall always!
If you need to walk around do so as a team of at least 2.
Be carefull out there.
I worked a Biker bar for 2 years im still alive.

[Tbag]

Dan, Gotta love them Gator's. I live in Boca Raton, It seems most of the replies are from outerstaters, thanks guys. Read the law's, sure you are not supposed to pack heat in a bar, the fine if I read it right, $25.00. In my opinon, you were theatened and now it's time to protect yourself. Oh by the way if you are just outside of the door what law are you breaking now?

[BouncerDan]

Thanks again for all your helpful advice, It has not fallen on deaf hears. However the male that was originally spoke of has not made an apparence anywhere near our night club since the original even.

However last night something that seemed simple enough took a horrible turn. And now threats us again.

Last night we had a fight so of course several bouncers including myself responded. We of course separated the two people fighting and than proceeded to separate their friends. However once we got one of the two fighters to the door he turned and started swinging on a bouncer (who already has a short fuse). The next thing I know I am standing in the middle of two people both throwing of fist. Anyway we finally get the BG out however the other bouncer didn't stop and to make a long story short he ended up beating the BG unconscious on the street.

Of course the bouncer was arrested for assault and battery. Which mean he immediately got fired. However have you ever tried to tell a crack head and his friends that the bouncer has been punished? If you haven't trust me it is a useless gesture.

So to sum things up after a while of all the bouncers kind of laying low to get off of peoples radar we are right back where we started.

I just wanted to give everyone an update. Any more suggestions on how to mount a defense against the new threat I am all ears. Thanks everyone.

[AR15FAN]

You just have to get a new line of work or you'll forever be looking over your shoulder. Unless you are hooked on the "jazz" of the job in which case, good luck.

[SeaMariner]

Write to the state attorney general... some states have provisions for owners or employees of bars and similiar establishments allowing firearms for the safety of the staff and patrons... If not, perhaps its time to let the state legislature know you don't like their rules..

[nkielborn]

OC spray is not an option for were he works, first off OC spray should not be used indoors because more than just the person who it was used upon will likely be affected including the bouncer, so not only are patrons affected but u could be blinded if it is ineffective against the person your using it on and it may get you hurt due to the fact you may become incapacitated. Plus you shouldnt use it in in wet weather or in windy conditions.

A baton of some sort is a decent option if its legal. How about a small folding knife, not a swiss army knife but something that folds and locks into place that can be kept in a poket. Even in the PRK were allowed to have small knives on our persons in most places. A small knife is really a useful tool just to have and in a worst case scenario it gives you a slight advantage in a fight.

In the case of your ex fellow employee, you need to be careful in that sort of situation in some places you can be held liable for his actions, if you dont attempt to stop his attack on the person. I am not sure if you tried to get him away but you need to try.

You may also look into working a diffent bar if you feel the situation is becoming a problem, life to short as it is, just my .02

[Kelley]

Hi all just joined this evening althou I periodically visit the forum and I myself work the rest/bar scene, I have never experienced the troubles Danthebouncer has experienced althou this is Gainesville and alot does happen on Campus so I sympathize with you Dan and I don't envy your job seeing the bounces at the club I work for don't have to deal with to much. So chin up Dan and good luck and please don't send them BG's to my club....lol

[ws6_keith]

Ahh, Gainesville, my ole stomping grounds. Man I loved that place.

Good luck Dan. It seems to me that the younger crowd gets more and more rowdy with each passing year. Look at the NBA all stars weekend here in Vegas last weekend...two bouncers SHOT at a local strip club, plus one patron. Another patron at another club (Cheetah's) shot and killed.

I don't envy your job.

[wolfmann]

First mistake:dont lose your temper.
2nd mistake:It became personal.
Once you take it outside and continue the fight when the chance for it to be ended, it then becomes assault.
While I dont know the laws of your state I think most would be on the same line as he was.
Be a PRO not a BULLY.
Most patrons are just wanting to have a good time with drama left to the outside world.
Its the Bouncers job to not escalate confrontation.
Of course that is more easy said than done,always ask yourself if you could have handled it better.

Personally I dont think the Owner knows how to deal with situations and has given poor direction to his staff.
In the end all he will get is a too rowdy s**thole,and then the cops are gona get tired of it and will be on his butt to close down.

[markj]

the other bouncer didn't stop and to make a long story short he ended up beating the BG unconscious on the street

Never and I mean never ever go outside, not for any reason at all. Not until it is closing time and everyone leaves at the same time in a group and you all park in the same area. If this guy worked my bar he would have a bad headache from a certain sap hitting him reapeatdly, now the bar may be sued by the guy that got beat up. Bad bad thing. Glad I dont work it any more.

Always treat the customer in a polite manner, dont hurt him at all, restrain him, walk him out of the bar. He may come back tomorrow and spend a thousand bucks. if not? what does it hurt. You wont ever be arrested for being nice to a guy. We used to use "come along" holds etc. or a sap if it got to that point.

[Willy T]

He probably doesn't remember what you look like anyway. If he had a habit of shooting like the LEOs said. He probably wont be on the streets. I would chalk it up as a feature of your chosen profession. I would be more worried had he not said anything. Drunks are cowards once they sober up.

[Leafs]

Get your boss to hire James Dalton, jk. Get a vest, keep your head on a swivel and you should be fine. 99.9% of these guys are all talk, so hopefully that's all you'll have to deal with.

[spacemanspiff]

Can't believe I missed this thread until now...

1. Buy a vest. Check ebay. I got mine in my exact size for $120. Its born on date was Jan 2006, so its not old, wasnt used much either. Get a trauma plate or the soft armor paks as well. Very cheap insurance.
When I started working at the bar last August, no one wore vests. My buddy bought one, I got one, and now three others are wearing vests. (Side benefit is that chicks get really turned on by them. hehe)

2. OC spray. Sabre Red is the best out there. Not for indoor use! Use it inside the bar and the whole bar will have to be emptied for at least an hour. It goes EVERYWHERE. But its effective. One guy used the stream stuff, an entire bottle, did nothing on a guy weilding a broken bottle. He ran back to my door, got my Sabre Red, and one blast had him down. We've used it to break up 6 person fights. Everyone wants to make nice after they get sprayed with it!

3. My bars policy is no asps/batons, guns, knives, or anything that can be used as a weapon. The form I signed threatened criminal charges. Yeah right. Worst they can do is fire me. With that said, I would never carry my gun while working at the bar. What are you going to do? Open fire into a crowd of a couple hundred people? Under that adrenalin dump where your motor skills are going haywire? I carry a knife, but its more utility than weapon in my mind.

4. We do patdowns on all male patrons. I have intercepted one gun, and countless knives. Patron can take the knife to their car or stash it somewhere outside. The gun carriers are turned away, we dont want them in the bar. We also intercept a lot of booze people try to bring into the bar. My personal policy is to toss thier alcohol and then refuse them entry. Insult to injury!


We are able to arrest patrons who refuse to leave or who resist. Warn them about the tresspass, and then place them in cuffs if they do not comply. If its an assault we are breaking up, we arrest all parties involved.

The relationship your bar has with the police must not be that great. The cops who patrol the downtown area where my bar is at are on very good terms with us doormen. We've been able to support and assist them, during arrests, fights, and when they get injured we step in to help as well. Most of us are on first name basis with the police, and they have been on hand many times while we are doing our job. The police trust us to do our job.

Not everyone is cut out to be a bouncer. Those who lose their cool are liabilities to the bar, not assets. Whatever anyone may say, bouncing is as much about good customer service and excellent people skills as it is being big and strong.
We get death threats all the time. People talk smack to us left and right. A good bouncer can let all that go.
Be Nice. When you escort someone out, Be Nice. When they tell you off, Be Nice. Be Nice until its time to Not Be Nice.


spacemanyesitstruebouncersdopleasurethemselvestoRoadHousespiff

[Wildalaska]

Listen to Spiffy he speaks truth

WildandhisbarissocrazediwontevengothereAlaska

[Eghad]

I would say to check the state law. Under some state laws there is a difference between a patron and a person employed by the bar performing certain duties. Then there is the matter of the owner agreeing. Just doesnt seem like a good place to have a firearm. I would consider a good quality protective vest also as it might help protect you from some knifes also. I might invest in a good heavy duty flashlight also. Spiffy sounds like he has the been there done that T shirt.

Of course once he had em cuffed he could sit on em to restrain the person.

The person would then have this look .

[spacemanspiff]

Oh please! Figure 4 the legs and have another put their knee on the skull, that baby aint going nowhere!!

We have to be really careful up here how we restrain people. No vascular chokes, no compression chokes. One patron at another bar up here died from having multiple bouncers sitting on him, a year or two ago.
Crossface holds are okay because they don't compress the airway, just the chin/jaw. Armbars get used a lot, and theres this funky 'hug' hold that is pretty tough to break if its deployed properly.

Big +1 on the flashlight. I've gone through three surefires already. Oh yeah, cut resistant gloves are a big help.