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February 21, 2012, 01:43 PM | #26 | |
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I would point out that most gun shows are held at facilities (fairgrounds in the case of Volusia County) owned by county or municipal governments thus making the barring of legal concealed carry fall under the perview of 790.33. The Fl Sate Fair recently had to revisit it's prohibition on weapons and ensure the security guards at the entrances knew people with a concealed weapons permit were allowed to enter with their weapons.
link: http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/20...air-ar-358920/ I would also point out that nowhere in 790.06 is there mention that a Fl concealed weapons permit becomes invalid in any place except for the named exceptions (schools, courthouses, police stations, etc) and in fact, in 790.06 (15) the last two sentences are as follows: Quote:
The conclusion I have drawn from this and that I and many others (including law enforcement) operate under is that a no weapons sign is just paint on a building or colored plastic. It has no bearing on my right to carry a concealed weapon under Fl law. Similarly a LEO at the entrance to a Gun Show asking me if I have any loaded weapons is just making conversaton and if I do not tell him I have a loaded weapon thus causing him to ask me to leave, I have committed no crime. I do believe that the LEO would have cause to bar entry to anyone attempting to enter with a loaded firearm they are bringing to the show for the purpose of sale or trade as their transportation of the firearm in that case is covered elsewhere under Fl law and I do not think that is the main topic of discussion here.
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February 21, 2012, 01:50 PM | #27 |
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Aikibiker, the municipal preemption doesn't reduce in any way the rights of property owners or leasees. They can still say "no carry" and we have to respect it.
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February 21, 2012, 05:06 PM | #28 |
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Doyle,
There is nothing in the law that allows them to do that. The only thing a property owner can do, is ask you to leave if they somehow discover you have a weapon. The same way they can ask anyone else to leave if they do something the property owner does not like. (or heck if the property owner does not like their haircut) Their sign or wishes in no way invalidates a State of Florida concealed weapons permit. When I first got my CWP I studied the law a lot and Florida's rules with regard to signage were one thing I looked up. Suffice it to say I found nothing and I periodically check the relevant statutes to make sure they have not changed. If you can point me to a statute that supports your arguement I would be glad to read it.
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February 21, 2012, 09:26 PM | #29 |
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Wrong they can and do have that right, as do you to prevent someone from entering your home with a gun. The state does not over rule that. Private employers cannot prevent you fom having your ccw in your car in the parking lot (certain exemptions allowed) , but they sure can prevent you from carrying inside their facility
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February 21, 2012, 09:46 PM | #30 |
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Can you point me in the direction of that statute?
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February 21, 2012, 09:51 PM | #31 |
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Oneounce, I believe AikBiker is pretty accurate, as he is agreeing that anyone has the right to ask you to leave their property, and once they do you must...that's not argued.
Now, turning the tables, in Florida, it is not a crime to licensed CC on private property, the state even has issue with businesses posting signs against it.. So, how do you as the owner that wants to ban a CCer know that someone is CCing? If they are properly CCing, the weapon is, well, concealed...right? So how would you know to ask a CCer to leave if his weapon remains concealed? A main issue with this thread was, "does a police officer who is working a part-time shift for a gunshow operator have the authority to, on the behalf of the private employer, ask you if you are carrying concealed and to unload your weapon.....and if you disregard the officer, lie and proceed, are you committing a crime, and if so, what crime? If a Walmart manager stands at the door and asks that all CCers unload their weapons before entering, there's no crime committed if you look at him, lie "no guns no ammo sir" and proceed. Now, replace that Walmart manager with a police officer, not working on the city clock, but instead working for Walmart part-time, but wearing his city uniform and badge, and have him ask he same questions and give the same directions.....now we're on another playing field...or are we? My intent was, what is the actual authority of such police officers in such a situation? Are they a "placebo", and cant actually enforce a rule of a private employer/property owner that actually goes against state law, or can they? I'm pretty much done with Florida gun shows anyway, but I thought this would be an interesting conversation.... Remember.....the police officer is asking you if you are doing something that is clearly legal in the state of Florida..... |
February 22, 2012, 09:28 AM | #32 |
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Try carrying your gun to work in a nuclear power plant and see what happens. Try carrying your gun on posted private land and see what happens. The law was changed to allow you to have your CCW in your locked car at an employers business, but he can still prevent you from carrying it inside; private property rights trump others. Why would you lie and commit armed trespass? Don't like the rules, go someplace else
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February 22, 2012, 04:24 PM | #33 |
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Up here, we go to PA for gun shows, they say no loaded firearms (CCW exempted) I am not sure about Florida, but many of the gunshows I have been to and even Cabelas in PA and in Maine state that CCW is not included in the loaded firearms ban, Long guns or hanguns brought for sale are normally zip tied through the action to verify that they are not loaded. Kinda makes me feel better. I often carry a loaded handgun, and this has never been a problem for me. Also, I wouldnt lie about it, "the truth shall set you free". I would state that I have a ccw, but I have no firearms that are intended to be sold or handled at the show. If they asked me to unload, I would do so. I could always load up again if NECESSARY, but I think I am going to be ok at a gun show. Again, Fla may be different, never been to one in Florida, and most Gun shows dont have the great deals they used to have.
My .02 1/2 cents.
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February 22, 2012, 06:56 PM | #34 |
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A nuclear power plant?
These arguments are never won....people simply get to state their position. I believe we've done so. |
February 23, 2012, 07:37 PM | #35 |
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Could this be more of a who owns the gun issue?
Attending a recent gun show in Wisconsn, if you brought a gun to sell, you had to stop and get a tag for the gun. At which time it was checked for loaded ammo. There are some, that would walk in with a empty holster and walk out with a full one. This might be more about table theft, than anything else. |
February 23, 2012, 08:29 PM | #36 | |
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Quote:
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February 23, 2012, 08:53 PM | #37 | ||
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Quote:
It is even up for grabs whether you can LEGALLY be thrown out, if the gunshow is being held on property owned by a county or municiple government. That would appear to be prohibited under the pre-emption law. Quote:
You are looking for section 7 of the law which are exceptions to the right to keep weapons in vehicles in Fl.
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February 23, 2012, 09:01 PM | #38 | |
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Quote:
If you want to argue it, go ahead with the FHP/LEO's at the door. Its the same deal with some gun stores. they may prohibit a loaded firearm by a CC-er. Can you walk in there with your loaded EDC, sure. If they find out they can kick you out. Same concept - they just don't have LEO's at the door. |
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February 24, 2012, 07:23 AM | #39 | ||
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I emailed Florida Gun Shows and below is the response I received about loaded concealed carry while in the show,
Quote:
Quote:
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