.22 LR info!

[ZVP]

I just bought a "Brick" of the new Winchester Super-X 40 gr solids,
The new bullets are coated, with a hard Golden wax(?) to pocket-proof the cartriges and to seal them.
The BEST offerI from Winchester in a long time!
My Single Sis loved the older, non coated cartriges for accuracy!
ZVP

Price 500@ $60

[WIL TERRY]

Sixty bucks a brick !!??

[Sevens]

There is history and curiosity in the heeled bullet design. Indeed, many different random samples of .22LR ammo will present a round where you can rotate the bullet inside the case.

It may not be completely obvious to some, but most modern centerfire ammo as we know it has a bullet whose bearing surfaces are entirely inside the brass cartridge case. When you're looking at a loaded round of 9mm or .38 or .45... no part of the bullet that you can see is making contact with the rifling. That bearing surface is INSIDE the brass. It is that way with .22 Magnum also. As a result, the bullet diameter is a bit smaller than the outside diameter of the cartridge case.

Not so with .22LR, and any other historic heeled-bullet design. With this old-school approach, the full diameter of the bullet and it's total bearing surface is sitting there on top of the brass cartridge case. That means that the bullet is not incrementally smaller in diameter than the case. In fact, it is the same size.

And someone who knows & can explain the roots of some of these can explain it much more clearly than I can -- this phenomenon is the root of why the cartridge that we all know as ".38" isn't sending a .38" bullet downrange at all, but rather a .357" one.

[RickB]

$60 for a brick is a bargain! Bricks of CCI standard vel are $70 locally.

[Sweet Shooter]

Today 01:02 PM
Sevens

It may not be completely obvious to some, but most modern centerfire ammo as we know it has a bullet whose bearing surfaces are entirely inside the brass cartridge case. When you're looking at a loaded round of 9mm or .38 or .45... no part of the bullet that you can see is making contact with the rifling. That bearing surface is INSIDE the brass. It is that way with .22 Magnum also. As a result, the bullet diameter is a bit smaller than the outside diameter of the cartridge case.

This is incorrect.
These projectiles have straight sides/walls. The ID of the rifling is smaller than the OD of the projectile sides/walls. The ogive is complete outside of the brass. That's what the throat is for. I'd agree about the 22mag it is a bit different.

-SS-

[J.Keefer]

Rick,
No cci 22's around here for a year or better.. I'd gladly pay $60 or $70 for a brick of mimi-mags or stingers.!

[RickB]

Stingers are $17 per 100.

[Slamfire]

hard Golden wax(?) to pocket-proof the cartriges and to seal them.

The wax has several functions. One of which is keeps the cartridges pretty, another is case lubrication so the things can be fired in blow back actions. Without the case lubrication, the cases would stick.

Pedersen's rifle was a high powered delayed blowback, which required lubricated cases. Instead of using oilers (and greased bullets!), which were used, for example, on the retarded blowback Schwarzlose machine gun, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0-R-q7pfvM http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artikla...chwarzlose.htm Pedersen patented a process of coating his cartridges:

Patented Nov. 4, 1930

PATENT OFFICE JOHN DOUGLAS PEDERSEN, OF SPRINGFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS

http://www.google.com/patents/US1780566

In the preparation of cartridges having metal cases for storage and for use, it has been found desirable to apply to said metal case a relatively thin coating of some protective substance which will preserve said metal case for comparatively long periods of time against-deterioration, such as season cracking. In the present invention, the material for said coating has been so chosen as to perform the additional function of acting as a lubricant for the case of the cartridge, both for facilitating introduction into the chamber of the gun and the extraction thereof after firing. The most suitable wax which I have found for this purpose and which I at present prefer is ceresin, a refined product of ozokerite; but I wish it to be understood that other waxes having similar qualities may exist which might serve equally well. Some of the desirable features of ceresin are that it is hard and non-tacky at ordinary temperatures having a melting point somewhere between 140 and 176 Fahrenheit. It is smooth and glassy when hard and does not gather dirt or dust. However, when the ceresin on the cartridges is melted in the chamber of a gun, it becomes a lubricant.

Other lubricating waxes have been employed for coating cartridges, and the method most generally pursued for applying said coating to the cartridge case has been to prepare a heated bath of a solution of the wax in a suitable solvent, dip the cartridges therein so that a film of the solution will adhere thereto, and finally withdraw the cartridges to permit the solvent to evaporate from the coating film. This former process is comparatively slow and has been found lacking in several important respects.

[Cheapshooter]

Gander Mountain had RGB 525's for $25 in the sale flyer that came yesterday. Sale started today. I stopped by this morning about 10:00. According to the sales person I asked, the best way to describe the 25 boxes they had is "Gone in sixty seconds"!

[ZVP]

This is the first Brick I have been able to buy in 2 1/2 yrs! (Central Calif Valley) Supplies just dried-up back then. A nearby Gun Shop has a small quanity that comes in and goes fast!
Availability of 9mm and .40 has always been good for some reason???
.38 Special is "iffy", when you find it, grab it!
Powder (Black and smokless) is rather thin around here, Primers are like GOLD and BP Caps are scarce!
Maybe it is loosening up though?
God I hope so!
ZVP

[Snyper]

It may not be completely obvious to some, but most modern centerfire ammo as we know it has a bullet whose bearing surfaces are entirely inside the brass cartridge case

That's not even close to being true.

"Some" of the bearing surface is inside the case.

On many rifle bullets, most of it is outside the case

[James K]

"The wax has several functions. One of which is keeps the cartridges pretty, another is case lubrication so the things can be fired in blow back actions. Without the case lubrication, the cases would stick."

News to me; I have never seen any .22 rimfire with lubricated cases, only with lubricated bullets. The Pedersen rifle was unusual and its operation did require lubricated cases, but the situations were not the same.

Blowback actions are used in most small caliber pistols (.22, .25, .32, .380, and even for some in more powerful rounds (Astra and High Point for example) and do not require lubricated cartridge cases.

Jim

[Ibmikey]

I Bought Winchester bulk 333 .22 LR hollow points at Wally Mart yesterday for 17.00 box, only bought one so others would have the opportunity to share in the find. I have bunches of Stingers and Mini Mags and others on the shelf, no way I would pay $50 -70 for any brick of 22's. I do not have the need as I always keep a good supply of ammo on the shelf for all my calibers and have even before the recent "insanity". "Be prepared" was engrained in me as a Scout, not trying to gloat over others misfortune but do suggest preparation for the next crisis.

[Gster]

I agree with Ibmikey, I'll never pay $50-$70 for a brick. I've bought them recently for $20 and that's a brick of 500. It doesn't matter what brand, there isn't $30-$50 difference in .22s. People are sellin' and people are buyin' Them same people are complaining about the high prices. Hmmh, wonder what part of the problem is...If people would just stop for 1 month, the market would be flooded with .22s at bargin prices. Itch your trigger fingers on a centerfire for few days and see what happens.

[qwiksdraw]

They put that stuff on the ammo so we can have something to debate in the forums!

[g.willikers]

At these prices, even the lowest, I've saved a small fortune over the last couple of years, by switching to airguns.
Might have to clean the dust off the rimfires, one of these days.

[DPris]

Wax is on the bullets, not on the cases.
No lube of any kind on the case.
Denis

[salvadore]

Wally world and my lgs sell 22s pretty close to msr. I could be wrong but I think dwelling in the desert is coming to an end. In a few months I believe 22s will be on the availale days after they go on the shelves, but I'm a glass half full guy.

[GyMac]

I could be wrong but I think dwelling in the desert is coming to an end. In a few months I believe 22s will be on the availale days after they go on the shelves, but I'm a glass half full guy.

I think you're right. I've bought around 1500 rounds in the last 2 months at the old prices. They still go quickly, but the stores are getting more in.

[vkeith]

I was at my favorite LGS last week and saw something I hadn't seen in five years: a plentiful supply of .22 LR ammo. Granted, it was still stupidly priced at $6-7 for a box of 50, but it least they had plenty of it in stock. That's the first sign I've seen that suggests the .22 shortage may be coming to an end soon, and hopefully prices will drop as all the stores get adequate supplies on their shelves.

[salvadore]

My lgs didnt get any bulk packs this week, but got some aguila 50 rds boxes priced at 4.99 per 50. Didnt sell out until the next day.

[HeadShrinker]

My office is 15 minutes from a local Cabela's. So I go there with some regularity. They often have the CCI 100 rd plastic boxes for 7 bucks, and I just got a brick of Remington's (500) for 27 dollars. I saw the very same box at my local range that same day for 50. I would never (now) pay that much, but I admit, during the "panic", I did... at gun shows no less.

[Panfisher]

My local Wal-Mart is improving. at least now they have a sign saying .22 ammo will be limited to 3 boxes per customer. Still sells quickly, but better than the "don't even bother to ask if we have .22 Ammo signs".

I bought one box of Federal HP's (550) at a gun show for $45, not great but at the time it was a heck of a bargain.

[bedlamite]

2 of my local mal-warts got Remington 225ct in last week for $11. It took 3 days for them to sell out. Another has a bunch of CCI standard velocity locked under the counter, and you have to ask for a manager to unlock it, with a limit of 1 100 round box.

[Skarekrow88]

The Gander Mountain I work at has 325ct boxes of Federal Auto Match for $19.99 a box and 50ct boxes of Blazer for $2.99 a box. With employee discount I get the Federal for ~$15. We got the shipment 3 days ago and we are almost sold out. The Blazer was gone yesterday.