Smith & Wesson revolver identification and recovery

[BillORights]

Hello All,

I'm looking for some help in how to go about proving that a revolver in the
possession of a Law Enforcement Agency is not stolen, get it returned to the owner.

Here's the situation:

John Doe has owned a S&W .38 Chief's Special, Serial # 1xxxx for 25 years.
From the Forum here, I understand that would date it as made in 1952.

John Doe was out hiking in California, and had the loaded gun in his backpack.
After hiking, John Doe put the backpack in the trunk of his car and
proceeded to drive home. Someone reported that his unoccupied vehicle
was parked on the side of the road in a "known marijuana growing area".
He was stopped by Law Enforcement several miles from where he was
parked. There were no vehicle issues, nor license, registration, or insurance
irregularities.

Law Enforcement Officers searched the vehicle, found the gun, and
confiscated it without issuing a receipt, as required by California law.
During the stop, the serial number of the gun was called in, and the
Officers said that it had been reported stolen 10 years ago in another
county, hundreds of miles away.

The situation is still in the legal process. The only charge is a concealed
weapon violation. All reports indicate simply that the stolen gun had been
registered, and that it was a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson revolver with the
Serial # indicated above, which is the same Serial # as John Doe's
revolver, which he had never registered.

Questions:

1.) How many revolvers fitting the general description of ".38 caliber
Smith & Wesson" could have the same Serial #?

2.) Does anyone know how to go about getting additional information about
the stolen gun from the California Bureau of Firearms (in order to show
that it is not the same gun taken from John Doe), and get it returned?

Thanks

[Don P]

1.) How many revolvers fitting the general description of ".38 caliber
Smith & Wesson" could have the same Serial #?

None from the time frame provided. Maybe talk to the BATFE. They may be able to give some advise as how to proceed.

[laytonj1]

None from the time frame provided.

S&W's Centennial models (also 5 shot 38spl.) used serial numbers 1 thru 30160 from early 50's to early 70's.

Since the serial number/cartridge of the gun is the deciding factor, not the DOB:

S&W's .38 Regulation Police models (a 5 shot .38) used SN 1 thru 54474 up till 1940.

There were numerous other S&W .38 chambered revolvers made around the late 1800, early 1900's with the same serial numbers (1XXXX) also.

It wasn't till the GCA of 1968 that the requirement to not use duplicate serial numbers was started.

Jim

[BillORights]

Thanks for the responses.

I called the Bureau of Firearms, and they said only the
registered owner of the stolen gun could get the information
regarding the gun. The problem is that he died the night it was
reported stolen. He was in the hospital, terminally ill, and his
wife reported that his 55 year old son, who lived with them,
took the gun. The person from the Bureau that I talked to, said
I would have get permission from the decedent's estate. That
does not appear to be easy to do, if it is actually possible.

It seems odd to me that I can't simply get more detailed information
about a gun that I already know the name of the registrant, serial #,
type (revolver), and caliber (.38). It seems to me that either the model
(type or number) or barrel length, or some other detail in the registration
information would show that it is not the gun that John Doe had

[Scattergun Bob]

You need a lawyer to get anywhere in the CA court system. You will need a good investigator to interview the stolen property claim. The COST will be the value of SEVERAL good solid handguns of the same water as the one you lost. Perhaps you should call the loss of this handgun a lesson in following the firearms laws of your state to the Letter and purchase another.

That seems harsh, I know, however you are on a very rocky path. Even with ownership decided, which seems shaky at best. You then must get a judge to order a release of your property. Understand, the judge does not have to agree to such an order. Also the Sheriff can make you runaround for
for a very long time before responding to the order of release. Another issue is that the property room has NO obligation to keep your property (evidence) in any specific shape. I have seen firearms that went into property in good shape come out totally rust pitted.

If this is a gun that you just have to have back, then pay your money and take your chances.

Please do not make a decision on what I have said. Spend a little money and buy a hour of time from a good attorney who knows this process. If you are in the Bay Area, I recommend Jess Guy, a great firearms attorney.

Good Luck & Be Safe

[BillORights]

Bob,

Thanks for the recommendation. John Doe already has an attorney, and
I think the case will be dismissed, if the attorney does his job properly.
In any event, I will pass the name along to John Doe. I used to practice law,
and I have researched the situation. Also, I know everything that happened
the day of the stop because I was along for the ride, literally.

[old bear]

I was along for the ride, literally.

Why am I not surprised? Good luck with the pending criminal case.

[BillORights]

Good luck with the pending criminal case.

Thanks

[44 AMP]

I'm a little dense today could you clarify?

Law Enforcement Officers searched the vehicle, found the gun, and
confiscated it without issuing a receipt, as required by California law.

Was the search required by law? was the confiscation? was the non-issuance of receipt required by law, or was it just the no receipt a violation of the law?

Was J. Doe arrested? IF so, then wouldn't the case file have the information that S&W .38 ser#1xxxxx was taken from him? Thereby providing proof he had that gun?

Also, consider, the state of record keeping, especially on the registration of the stolen gun. IF it just says S&W .38 ser#1xxxxxx, then you are going to have a heck of a time, even if you can get that info to use in court.

I know in NY, back in the 70s, registration was just the maker, caliber, ser# and barrel length. So it is possible to have two guns registered the same in the state's records. A pre model number S&W .38 and a model 36 S&W .38 with the same serial# might be possible in the records as the same gun.

Most practical advice, (assuming innocence, of course) beat the concealed charge, and ask for return of property. If denied, write it off, for economic reasons. If Mr Doe is determined on the principle, and has deep pockets, then fight it. He will be able to buy many other guns for what it will cost, and in the end, he may not ever get it back, just a check from the state for its "value", if that. But there are some things worth more than just money.

Cost vs benefit analysis is a personal thing sometimes.

[Sarge]

If John Doe already has an attorney, he has access to the entire police report via discovery- to include local or NCIC 'hits' indicating the gun was stolen, date of theft and which agency made the stolen gun entry.

I would assume (since I am not familiar with the subject state's probate laws) that if the owner has passed on, the next heir (assuming no legal disabilities) should have rights to the gun in question. If that person, I would file whatever claims for that property are necessary to insure that if it ever was released, I would be the legal owner.

[JohnKSa]

How many revolvers fitting the general description of ".38 caliber
Smith & Wesson" could have the same Serial #?

Given that a stolen gun is obviously not available for close examination at the time it is reported stolen, it seems that another likely explanation is that an incorrect serial number was listed on the theft report.

[BillORights]

44 AMP,

I believe that the stop and search were both illegal. We were
pulled over for driving a vehicle that had been reported parked
on the side of a public road, vacant, (while we were hiking),
in a "known marijuana growing area".

California Penal Code requires that when a gun is confiscated:

12028.7. (a) When a firearm is taken into custody by a law
enforcement officer, the officer shall issue the person who possessed
the firearm a receipt describing the firearm, and listing any serial
number or other identification on the firearm.
(b) The receipt shall indicate where the firearm may be recovered,
any applicable time limit for recovery, and the date after which the
owner or possessor may recover the firearm pursuant to Section
12021.3.



Sarge and JohnKSa,

We have a copy of the original theft report from 10 years ago. The serial
number for the gun was backtracked from the name of the registered owner.
He died on the night of the reported theft. His wife accused their 55 year-old
son, who lived with them, of stealing it along with other property. The son
at first said that he did not know anything about the theft, and then said
his dad, the deceased, had asked him to dispose of it. If I could get the
details on the gun with serial # 1xxxx that was registered to him, I think it
could distinguish that gun from John Doe's.

[BillORights]

The charges have been dismissed following a motion pursuant to
California Penal Code section 1538.5 - to suppress the evidence, and
for the return of property.

There will be a hearing on March 2, for the return of the gun.

[Aguila Blanca]

So far, so good.

Please keep us updated.

[BillORights]

This is an update to this thread. On August 3, 2011, the Court ordered the return of the Chief's Special to John Doe. We do not understand why it has taken so long. (Apparently the gun was sent to Sacramento for some reason, which was part of the delay in getting this thing resolved.)

This was achieved at no additional expense beyond that which resulted in the dismissal of charges.

We are planning another hike.............

[Sarge]

Good news & congratulations.

[Opinated]

It is a pleasant surprise that it ended as well as it did. But it never should have happened.

[mrray13]

TGIDLIC

Thank God I don't live in California!

Congrats on Mr. Doe getting his firearm back! Sucks it took almost a year!

[kilimanjaro]

Let us know when it's in your possession.