How loud are blanks?

[sigcurious]

I had a random thought today while watching tv. Actors rarely if ever have hearing protection on during scenes with firearms being used. Are blanks not loud enough to cause hearing damage?

[Pahoo]

Part of the equation is the amount of exposure/ time. Now, for the most part, shots in movies are edited in, on the sound tracks so what you see, may or may not be what was actually experienced. Bottom line, blanks are loud enough to cause hearing loss. The only blanks I ever shot, were in the .22. Try to experience a starter's pistol at a track meet. I really do not know if the starters wear hearing protection. ....


Be Safe !!!

[carguychris]

Actors rarely if ever have hearing protection on during scenes with firearms being used. Are blanks not loud enough to cause hearing damage?

My understanding is that they're available in different loudness levels according to the filming scenario.

I've also been told that they can be made with different levels of muzzle flash according to the lighting conditions, but I was told this about 15 years ago; nowadays, I suspect that the muzzle flash is usually added using CGI in post-production.

[Mal H]

As Pahoo suggested, the sound of the gunfire is usually added later by the Foley artists. If they used blanks loud enough to sound real, most of the actors/animals, etc. wouldn't look quite as normal as they do when they go off.

[SIGSHR]

I recall seeing a TV special that showed a group of people firing blackpowder blanks that would be used for the soundtrack of Last of the Mohicans.
I think post production dubbing has been the norm for movies and TV since the 1950s, perhaps even earlier. Cf how in the opening sequence of The Rifleman there are 10 shots even though the Winchester M1892 only holds 9 rounds. The 10th shot was added to keep in synch with the music.

[sigcurious]

How much do they have to modify the guns(in the case of semi-autos/full autos) to get them to operate with blanks that are low enough power to not damage hearing?

[darkroommike]

Depends on the firearm. Many machine guns are modified to fire shots of propane in the movies.

A famous example? Gary Cooper in Sgt. York is doing it to the bad guys with a Luger P08 (when he runs out of ammo for his Springfield) rather than the 1911 Sgt. York actually used, since Hollywood had not yet figured out how to make a 1911 reliably fire blanks. And if memory serves me Sgt. York actually used a M1917 rather than a Springfield during his service.

[DPris]

Blanks can be obtained in one quarter, half, and full power sound levels.
Lowest for indoors & close, loudest for outdoors.
Denis

[egor20]

I hunt on horseback and train some of the horses for my borders to do the same. DPris is correct, I start with 1/4 .22 blank cartridges and work my way up. If you think they're loud, imagine being an animal whose ears rotate and turn to noise.

[Capt. Charlie]

When I was a youngster, my dad took me to the cemetery for Memorial Day services. A military precision drill team of 7 fired rounds of blanks 3 times from M-1 Garands (21 gun salute). Dang, but those seemed loud! They were also hot as I found out while competing with other kids for the empty casings . They had to cycle the guns manually then, but they did it with such precision and speed that you barely noticed it.

With today's M-16's, they use a blank adapter, which is a bright red thingy that looks like a C clamp and narrows the muzzle diameter to the point that enough gas is forced down the gas tube to cycle the action. I have one, along with a case of 5.56 mm blanks (why? because they were free! ) Noise-wise though, they are downright wimpy. I suspect it's an OSHA thing.

Again, it boils down to the load. You can make them as loud, or as wimpy as you want.

[DPris]

When I was in Tech School at an Air Force base in Texas in '72 the blank adaptors we used for war games were screw-ons that looked something like the regular flash suppressors.
Much more realistic than the clamp-ons.
Denis

[Hawg]

in the opening sequence of The Rifleman there are 10 shots even though the Winchester M1892 only holds 9 rounds. The 10th shot was added to keep in synch with the music.

There's 12 shots and the 44-40 Winchester model 92 holds 10 in the magazine.

[BlueTrain]

I distinctly remember the sound from a 7.62 blank fired in an M14 was not loud at all. A blank firing adapter was used to make it functional with no other difference. But "not loud" was in comparison to ball ammo. On the other hand, I didn't think a 105mm howitizer was all that loud either, at least when you were standing behind the gun. A 105mm tank gun was loud and a 107mm recoilless rifle was very, very lound. After all that, a 4.2-in mortar was virtually silent. Either that or I was just about deaf by then.

Sometimes for movies and TV shows, the sound of a gun being fired was produced by something as simple as slapping a leather chair cushion with a yardstick. Ever notice how different revolvers and rifles sounded in the old movies? I can also vouch for the fact that a heavy plank of wood being dropped on a basement floor will sound an awful lot like a gunshot.

In filming, the problem is the sound. Virtually all sound in movies is added with the exception of the actor's voices. As strange as it sounds, some things have to be faked for them to seem real. It's the way it's done, both on stage for live theater and in motion pictures. Some things are over done for effect. Actors do not speak in a normal voice for a theater production, the lighting is not natural and they wear makeup. Motion pictures is the same but with a lot of differences. There were a lot of problems to overcome with sound when it came along, not the least of which was masking the sound of the camera.

One noteable exception was Alfred Hitchcock's "Rear Window." Supposedly all of the sound heard in the movie came from the set.

[carguychris]

I think post production dubbing has been the norm for movies and TV since the 1950s, perhaps even earlier.

I believe that post-production dubbing has been common ever since the movie studios started using synchronized sound back in the 1920s.

In the old days, sound equipment was expensive, cumbersome, and fragile, the microphones were troublesome, prone to picking up background noise, and very sensitive to wind, and the camera equipment was often very noisy; the latter was the original reason for the use of boom microphones. AFAIK the fragile sound equipment and problematic microphones were a major reason why the outdoor scenes in many older movies were shot on indoor sets, and also the reason why buildings that house movie sets are called "sound stages". Although constructing indoor sets took major effort, it was cheaper than re-recording all the sound for an outdoor scene when the on-set recordings were found to be unusable!

Using quiet blank cartridges and overdubbing the gunshot noise made lots of sense in this context; it protected the actors' and crews' hearing during filming, and also precluded problems inherent in recording very loud noises on primitive equipment that's not capable of handling high sound pressure while also picking up quiet dialog accurately.

Ever since multi-track tape (and later digital) recording became commonplace in the postwar era, it has been routine for actors to overdub their own dialog in post-production; this is a major reason why postwar movies more commonly contain scenes that were actually shot outdoors, and more frequently include actual on-set gunshot noise.

[BlueTrain]

Mostly that is correct but probably the biggest reason movies were shot on indoor sets is simply because it was easier. The director had much more control over things but that varied a lot with the director. There are a multitude of reasons things are done one way or another, however. There were even movies filmed on location in other countries before 1935.

One of the attempts made to resolve the problems with sound recording when sound was first being used was to enclose the camera and crew in a soundproof box but that method didn't last long. It didn't work well. Curiously, photographic film is still in use but the exposed and developed film is sometimes transferred to digital for editing, so I am told.

One of the irritating things I've seen now and then in movies is when a character signals with a revolver by pointing it up in the air and shooting but with the gun about six inches from his ear. Now you wouldn't do that, would you?

[sigcurious]

Some great info, thanks guys. I knew most of the sounds in movies/tv were put were added in post production. I didn't realize though that with gunshots that the blanks were so adaptable. The propane thing is neat, interesting way to get the muzzleflash without the noise.

[Eagleks]

Have no idea what they use in the movies, or if they dub in sound afterwards (which I would suspect they do). But, the blanks I've fired out of starter guns, were just as loud as a normal round if not a touch louder. They do have some that are quieter.

[BPowderkeg]

i know for certain 5 in 1 blanks are very loud, as an amateur actor for a "Cowboy" action group, i fired several hundred of them.

[brickeyee]

Stage blanks have to be loud, movie blanks not nearly as much.

The sound is dubbed in later, since actual gunfire does not record well (it tends to saturate ANY recording system).

Ever had your ears ring after a movie gunshot?

Ever fired a shot without hearing protection?

[robmkivseries70]

Older info here, but I have seen foreign made 30-06 blanks (FN maybe) split the BFA made for USGI blanks in an M1 Garand. Very LOUD out of an -03.
Best,
Rob

[beex215]

shot a fair bit out doors. they are still loud enough that hearing protection is still required.