6 inch Highway Patrolman target shooting problems

Doug.38PR · October 30, 2005, 11:08 PM

I have a 6 inch Highway Patrolman that I just shot at the range tonight. I've been practicing with it a few times since I got it this past spring. About 3 months ago I had the force cone widened a little to give the gun more accuracy. Still, I cannot seem to get the kind of grouping I want. As a weapon, I'm sure the gun would serve me faithfully. But I was told by the smith I took it to to have the cone adjusted that I should be able to get a grouping the size of a Quarter. Instead as I do now, I get a grouping about the size of the palm of my hand at 15-25
I do a little better with my 4 inch Official Police in DA (VERY good too, with one hand shooting) than with the Highway Patrolman holding with the my right and bracing with my left in SA.
What should I be doing in order to make myself a marksman at 25-50?
Practice? (well that's a given), but what am I doing wrong with it? it must be me. I feel I should be getting better results. Could it be that I am not used to the size and weight of the gun. I feel with the fixed sights, long barrel, large frame and custom work on the cone this should be the most accurate pistol in my collection.

Any thoughts?

LHB1 · October 30, 2005, 11:40 PM

Doug,
Sounds to me like that GS was spreading it a little thick but to find out what your gun and ammo will do:
1. Test the gun and ammo from sandbag rest to minimize your effect on the results and see what the gun/ammo is capable of.
2. Try different ammo from same sandbag rest to see if that changes the results. Your gun might like one handload, bullet, ammo, etc. better than another.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

Sir William · October 31, 2005, 01:06 AM

My guess is that you need a hotter, heavier and possibly better crimped cartridge choice. My S&W M28 is sweet with Winchester Supreme 180 gr black box. Stepping down to 158 gr Federal Hydra-Shoks requires my adjusting the sights for POA/POI. I suggest a 6 O'clock hold and one click lateral adjustments in the sights. Experiment until you find the correct combination. The accuracy can be changed by only changing brands of cartridges. I also suggest having the custom GS forcing cone work checked by another GS. 11 degrees is about normal. Ask the second GS to inspect the crown of the bore also. Have them use a range rod on each chamber too.

guntotin_fool · October 31, 2005, 01:44 AM

Please do not take this as insulting, but have you checked for leading in the barrel? are you shooting Lead bullets? or jacketed?

What does the crown of the muzzle look like? sometimes a small ding there can really upset accuracy.

have you tried shooting off a couple of sand bags, bracing your hands on the bags? this tends to remove any shooter induced errors.

Have you made sure the rear sight is still tight. My dad had a K 22 that he said just went south real fast, turned out that screw holding the rear sight had gotten loose and with every shot, there was a new setting. just some ideas?

Archie · October 31, 2005, 02:05 AM

What do the groups you get look like, and where are they?

Doug.38PR · October 31, 2005, 10:16 AM

Mostly I shoot Winchester .38 Special FMJ as the indoor range I typically go to doesn't allow magnums (sometimes I use .38+P).
They don't have sandbags there.

The groupings I get are usually around in the center of where I am shooting., They are about the size of the palm of my hand.

I've tried to get the groupings one on top of the otherish from about 5-7 yards to practice. Even that is difficult.

Next weekend I am taking it to an outdoor range that does have sandbags. I'll let y'all know how I do there.

sendec · October 31, 2005, 10:29 AM

There oughta be a law: Before any "accuracy" work is done the gun must be shot from a Ransom rest. Sure, they may be hard to find, but it is pointless to try to wring accuracy from any gun until it's absolute, intrinsic accuracy is determined, and that can only be done from a rest or a shooter of known quality. Sandbags'll be a start.

I also most strongly recommend that you have another shooter fire the gun. If the problem is apparent across multiple shooters, then it may be the gun. If it miraculously gets better, or worse, it is the operator

Doug.38PR · October 31, 2005, 10:32 AM

Oh it did indeed need work.
Prior to the work, the forcing cone was so narrow that it was shaving the part of the metal strip of the .38+P round on the base of the bullet. Not only that, the cone was so unevenly cut all the way around that it would consistantly bind against the cylinder at a certain point.

LHB1 · October 31, 2005, 11:06 AM

Quote: "the cone was so unevenly cut all the way around that it would consistantly bind against the cylinder at a certain point"

If the cylinder rubbed the cone (barrel extension) at a certain point of the cone thru a complete revolution of the cylinder, the cone was not square and should have been trimmed square. If the cylinder rubbed the cone only at a certain point on the cylinder, then the cylinder was not square and should have been trimmed square. OR perhaps the cylinder axis rod on which it revolves has been bent and should be straightened. Good idea to check or have the barrel crown redone also but this may require bluing touchup later. If the cone was shaving bullets beforehand, perhaps it wasn't lining up with the cylinder chambers which again could indicate bent cylinder rod. GS may have taken easy way out by widening the cone instead of straightening the rod and checking cylinder alignment lockup.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

LHB1 · October 31, 2005, 11:09 AM

Sorry, double post due to mental lapse.

Doug.38PR · October 31, 2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

If the cylinder rubbed the cone (barrel extension) at a certain point of the cone thru a complete revolution of the cylinder, the cone was not square and should have been trimmed square.

That's exactly what the smith did

blackmind · October 31, 2005, 11:05 PM

Quote:

I have a 6 inch Highway Patrolman that I just shot at the range tonight.

Felony assault with a deadly weapon? Attempted murder of a police officer?

What about your 12 inch pianist! Did he escape the carnage?

Sorry, I had to.

-blackmind

October 30, 2005, 11:08 PM	#1
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	6 inch Highway Patrolman target shooting problems I have a 6 inch Highway Patrolman that I just shot at the range tonight. I've been practicing with it a few times since I got it this past spring. About 3 months ago I had the force cone widened a little to give the gun more accuracy. Still, I cannot seem to get the kind of grouping I want. As a weapon, I'm sure the gun would serve me faithfully. But I was told by the smith I took it to to have the cone adjusted that I should be able to get a grouping the size of a Quarter. Instead as I do now, I get a grouping about the size of the palm of my hand at 15-25 I do a little better with my 4 inch Official Police in DA (VERY good too, with one hand shooting) than with the Highway Patrolman holding with the my right and bracing with my left in SA. What should I be doing in order to make myself a marksman at 25-50? Practice? (well that's a given), but what am I doing wrong with it? it must be me. I feel I should be getting better results. Could it be that I am not used to the size and weight of the gun. I feel with the fixed sights, long barrel, large frame and custom work on the cone this should be the most accurate pistol in my collection. Any thoughts?

October 31, 2005, 02:05 AM	#5
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Doug, What do the groups you get look like, and where are they? __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

October 30, 2005, 11:40 PM	#2
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Doug, Sounds to me like that GS was spreading it a little thick but to find out what your gun and ammo will do: 1. Test the gun and ammo from sandbag rest to minimize your effect on the results and see what the gun/ammo is capable of. 2. Try different ammo from same sandbag rest to see if that changes the results. Your gun might like one handload, bullet, ammo, etc. better than another. Good shooting and be safe. LB

October 31, 2005, 01:06 AM	#3
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	My guess is that you need a hotter, heavier and possibly better crimped cartridge choice. My S&W M28 is sweet with Winchester Supreme 180 gr black box. Stepping down to 158 gr Federal Hydra-Shoks requires my adjusting the sights for POA/POI. I suggest a 6 O'clock hold and one click lateral adjustments in the sights. Experiment until you find the correct combination. The accuracy can be changed by only changing brands of cartridges. I also suggest having the custom GS forcing cone work checked by another GS. 11 degrees is about normal. Ask the second GS to inspect the crown of the bore also. Have them use a range rod on each chamber too.

October 31, 2005, 01:44 AM	#4
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	Please do not take this as insulting, but have you checked for leading in the barrel? are you shooting Lead bullets? or jacketed? What does the crown of the muzzle look like? sometimes a small ding there can really upset accuracy. have you tried shooting off a couple of sand bags, bracing your hands on the bags? this tends to remove any shooter induced errors. Have you made sure the rear sight is still tight. My dad had a K 22 that he said just went south real fast, turned out that screw holding the rear sight had gotten loose and with every shot, there was a new setting. just some ideas?

October 31, 2005, 10:16 AM	#6
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Mostly I shoot Winchester .38 Special FMJ as the indoor range I typically go to doesn't allow magnums (sometimes I use .38+P). They don't have sandbags there. The groupings I get are usually around in the center of where I am shooting., They are about the size of the palm of my hand. I've tried to get the groupings one on top of the otherish from about 5-7 yards to practice. Even that is difficult. Next weekend I am taking it to an outdoor range that does have sandbags. I'll let y'all know how I do there.

October 31, 2005, 10:29 AM	#7
sendec Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 517	There oughta be a law: Before any "accuracy" work is done the gun must be shot from a Ransom rest. Sure, they may be hard to find, but it is pointless to try to wring accuracy from any gun until it's absolute, intrinsic accuracy is determined, and that can only be done from a rest or a shooter of known quality. Sandbags'll be a start. I also most strongly recommend that you have another shooter fire the gun. If the problem is apparent across multiple shooters, then it may be the gun. If it miraculously gets better, or worse, it is the operator

October 31, 2005, 10:32 AM	#8
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Oh it did indeed need work. Prior to the work, the forcing cone was so narrow that it was shaving the part of the metal strip of the .38+P round on the base of the bullet. Not only that, the cone was so unevenly cut all the way around that it would consistantly bind against the cylinder at a certain point.

October 31, 2005, 11:06 AM	#9
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Quote: "the cone was so unevenly cut all the way around that it would consistantly bind against the cylinder at a certain point" If the cylinder rubbed the cone (barrel extension) at a certain point of the cone thru a complete revolution of the cylinder, the cone was not square and should have been trimmed square. If the cylinder rubbed the cone only at a certain point on the cylinder, then the cylinder was not square and should have been trimmed square. OR perhaps the cylinder axis rod on which it revolves has been bent and should be straightened. Good idea to check or have the barrel crown redone also but this may require bluing touchup later. If the cone was shaving bullets beforehand, perhaps it wasn't lining up with the cylinder chambers which again could indicate bent cylinder rod. GS may have taken easy way out by widening the cone instead of straightening the rod and checking cylinder alignment lockup. Good shooting and be safe. LB

October 31, 2005, 11:09 AM	#10
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Sorry, double post due to mental lapse.