|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 6, 2013, 07:39 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
|
Had the inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto been better armed the results would have been quite different. Think April 19, 1775.
|
January 7, 2013, 11:45 AM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
Last edited by manta49; January 7, 2013 at 11:56 AM. |
|
January 7, 2013, 11:52 AM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Perhaps, killing a lot more Nazis would have been a good thing for civilization.
I suppose that if Germany had the shipping to invade England and instead of turning towards Russia, you would have proposed not to fight them on the beaches. The Wehrmacht, if it could have gotten across the Channel after the Fall of France, would have gone through the UK like a knife through butter. So why would the British bother to fight then? Give it up. The occupation goverment was already in the planning stages. Wave goodbye to your Jews also. Why were there resistance movements in occupied countries? Useless, it would seem.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 7, 2013, 12:03 PM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
|
|
January 7, 2013, 12:08 PM | #30 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
|
Quote:
ETA- Just as a side note I am pretty sure the UK lost that other war. Quote:
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. Last edited by Alabama Shooter; January 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM. |
||
January 7, 2013, 12:15 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2010
Location: Central Georgia
Posts: 1,863
|
There a hell of a lot of difference between massed conscript armies fighting in the field and surrendering in mass, especially given some of the blundering idiots that populated French and English high command in 1940 versuses a group of determined people with there back against the wall.
__________________
NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!" |
January 7, 2013, 12:23 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
The English would have bravely fought to the end. But they would have lost. Edward would have returned to be the Quisling King.
One cannot have it both ways - the Jews or a minority cannot defend themselves or inflict significant losses on an oppressor when significantly armed but the English without significant armor at the times or civilian arms would hold up against the Wehrmacht. What a silly tailspin someone has gotten into.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 7, 2013, 12:28 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2010
Location: Central Georgia
Posts: 1,863
|
I would say England did fight it out to the end. Dunkirk is the quintessential example a fighting withdrawal under heavy air and sea assualt.
I believe the phrase used MG Sir Julian Thompson in "Retreat to Victory" was the "...the remants of the BEF retired in good order under intense enemy fire." Which I do believe is Limey speak for "we didn't get with the bug out fever like the French did." But there are no parallels between the initial sucess of Blitzkrieg and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Hell, the Warsaw Jews weren't soldiers. No body told them that fighting would be useless and that they would loose.
__________________
NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!" |
January 7, 2013, 12:47 PM | #34 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
Quote:
Below are the original posts i was replying to. Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by manta49; January 7, 2013 at 12:54 PM. |
||||
January 7, 2013, 12:47 PM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
The Germans backed off a bit at Dunkirk but we are off topic.
The claim is that the RKBA is irrelevant to protecting folks from genocide. The example chosen was the a few poorly armed Jews at the last moment did not stop the Wehrmacht. The Jews later did defend the state of Israel without the best of weapons at its founding. One can chose to get on the bus or the train to go to the camps without a peep. You can say it won't happen here (no one is saying that it is planned). But if it comes to that - now people know better. Given that, the RKBA is paramount to preventing planning for such a horror happening again.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 7, 2013, 12:50 PM | #36 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
Individuals kill at a retail level- one here, maybe a couple there. The most prolific indvidual mass murderers in history have never killed more than Vasili Blohkin did in a single night (and he did so for 28 straight nights! It takes a Government to kill on a wholesale level ...... first by disarming the victims, and them by systematicly killing them. Armed people with a will to resist can NOT be lined up in front of a ditch and machinegunned, marched into a gas chamber to be asphyxiated, or herded into a church to be burned alive. |
|
January 7, 2013, 12:56 PM | #37 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
We knew better. They knew better. Everybody knew better, yet thousands of people were put on trucks, lined up in front of ditches, and machinegunned. More than 1/2 a Century after Babba Yar, and it's the same lesson...... everybody just fails to learn it. |
|
January 7, 2013, 01:05 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Exactly - you are your own last line.
Playing with words about the Warsaw ghetto is irrelevant to the core issue. The Jews weren't ready to defend themselves. Historical precedent suggests that easy genocides don't happen if the minority or target group can resist efficaciously. Can you lose the civil war - sure but that's a different game. The claim that if a large percent of the 3.5 million Jews in Poland could reasonably defend themselves if they were prepared would not have impacted the Wehrmacht is stupid. That's it.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
January 7, 2013, 01:10 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 3, 2011
Location: Poteet, Texas
Posts: 959
|
If the German Army had to pull Divisions off the front lines to put down an armed uprising by the Jews, who numbered several million, then yes it would have affected the German War effort. Did the Viet Cong affect the out come in SE Asia, seems so?
The other part of the question is, whose side will the Military be on? They sworn to defend and support the Constitution. We'll see. |
January 7, 2013, 01:18 PM | #40 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
...NEVER underestimate the danger of large groups of stupid creatures with a herd mentality. |
|
January 7, 2013, 01:29 PM | #41 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
The more heavily armed The People are, the less likely the elites at the top will try to massacre them, and the less likely The People are to meekly submit to same. Do you think the Serbs would have attempted their butchery without nearly completely dominating the Yugoslavian military? Last edited by Tom Servo; January 7, 2013 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Removed reference to deleted material |
|
January 7, 2013, 01:33 PM | #42 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 25, 2001
Location: The Deepest Pacific NorthWet
Posts: 590
|
Quote:
__________________
Quote:
http://thecluemeter.blogspot.com/ |
||
January 7, 2013, 01:39 PM | #43 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 25, 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 736
|
This is a good conversation.
If national pro-2A leaders said these things, they would be ridiculed and marginalized? Is that why the real roots of the 2nd amendment are mostly discussed in circles such as TFL? |
January 7, 2013, 01:45 PM | #44 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by manta49; January 7, 2013 at 03:22 PM. |
|||
January 7, 2013, 02:00 PM | #45 | |
Junior member
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
|
Quote:
Maybe Tam will award me teh Internetz..... she has so many laying around! |
|
January 7, 2013, 02:05 PM | #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
I find it very odd for people to think that an reasonably armed and peaceful populace would just bend over and die at the hands of the Germans in WWII. Their generals were great tacticians, but they cannot defy pure numbers.
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
January 7, 2013, 03:18 PM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
|
|
January 7, 2013, 03:36 PM | #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
manta49, it was done gradually; psychological conditioning against resisting the established order has been going on for centuries in your parts.
Of course, in your parts, the IRA only defied the British for a measly, what, 80 or more years? So some are not quite as easily conditioned, one supposes. Still, I find it odd that a person who hails from just across the water from an island that established the concept of an armed free yeomanry (don't want to be a serf? maintain proficiency with the longbow and respond to the call if we ever need you!) has a hard time with the concept of an armed populace. |
January 7, 2013, 03:50 PM | #49 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 21, 2010
Location: Central Georgia
Posts: 1,863
|
And didn't the IRA make do with an assortment of civilian weapons and captured military weapons, along with a hearty amount of what we would now call IEDs?
__________________
NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!" |
January 7, 2013, 03:53 PM | #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,809
|
Quote:
Having said that. Would more guns here have helped the situation over the last 30 years. |
|
|
|