One of the billions of things I don't know

Doc Hoy · April 7, 2010, 04:29 PM

I was reading some of the forums and other threads on this forum and a repeated topic emerged.

I saw numerous references to a 90 grain .457 round ball. Obviously this is not lead and the weight (90 grains) seems to imply relatively pure tin.

Anyone know what this is all about?

Tnx,

Gbro · April 7, 2010, 05:12 PM

That is a .392 dia. pure lead RB
This is a link to a good RB alloy calculator.

andrewstorm · April 7, 2010, 05:21 PM

may be tin and could have somthing to do with the calif. ban on lead what fourm u see em on ?.

Doc Hoy · April 7, 2010, 07:54 PM

Gbro,

The posts I read said several times it was a .457 ball. They were talking about a Walker Colt. A .457 round ball of pure lead weighs about 147 grains give or take.

For a .457 ball to weight 90 grains it would have to be pure tin and even that is a little high at 94 grains.

Andrew,

I'll buy your explanation but I was not aware that California banned the use of lead balls. I just read that someone has a patent on pure tin bullets. Didn't say if it was round balls but the patent is there.

Better get out your scratch pads fellas.

Learn something new every day.

fastforty · April 7, 2010, 09:59 PM

Yeah, we have Condor (buzzard) zones where you can't even possess lead ammo.

bedbugbilly · April 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

fastforty . . . . . ah . . . when you say Condors (buzzards) . . . are you talking about real birds . . . . or politicians? Sorry . . . . couldn't help myself . . . .

mykeal · April 8, 2010, 06:15 AM

Doesn't matter. The anti-lead requirement applies whether they're birds or politicians.

Doc Hoy · April 8, 2010, 07:42 AM

In California, you are not allowed to shoot condors with a lead bullet!?

You have to use a tin bullet?!

Or is it that you can't shoot politicians with tin bullets?

So you have to use lead on a politician and tin on the condors

If they could get the condors to migrate to where the politicians are and the politicians to migrate to where the condors were, they would both be safe.

noelf2 · April 8, 2010, 02:16 PM

What do lead balls have to do with Condors? Do they like to eat them or something? If so, that's a stupid bird that need extinktin...

Hardcase · April 8, 2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

What do lead balls have to do with Condors? Do they like to eat them or something? If so, that's a stupid bird that need extinktin...

They're scavengers, so they eat carrion that has lead fragments from being shot. Apparently that includes gut piles (yummy!?), so the rate of lead poisoning goes up during hunting season.

Info from Arizona's F&G: http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/california_condor_lead.shtml

PetahW · April 8, 2010, 04:45 PM

AFAIK, cast round balls (for firearms) aren't patentable, as designable bullets are.

.

Doc Hoy · April 8, 2010, 05:47 PM

The patent I saw was for "bullet" but did not make it clear what form the bullet was to be caste. I am sure there is a whole lot more to the narrative than I read.

zippy13 · April 8, 2010, 05:48 PM

As of this year, we can no longer put lead wheelweights on cars in California. I guess condors eat up the wheelweights that get scattered along the highways. Seriously, we've seen it in the past: as goes California, so goes the nation. Those of us who cast using wheelweights will soon be looking for alternate (more expensive) sources of lead.

bedbugbilly · April 8, 2010, 08:36 PM

I'm glad to see that California is right on top of things and in the forefront as usual . . . . really . . . I am. I'm all for protecting wildlife . . . why, in Michigan I've been lobbying to get a law passed so the state will have to supply the Whitetails with Kevlar vests . . . . too many of them are dying from lead poisoning back there . . . . if I can get it passed in Michigan, maybe the rest of the states will follow suit? When I'm done with that lobbying, I'm going to put a push on making it mandatory for cows to wear diapers . . . I'm sick of all of that pollution and besides, some kid might get injured using a cowpie for a frisbee . . . . let alone using a road apple in their slingshots . . . oh, I forgot . . . slingshots are banned as they lead to violence. I just wish that the new federal administration would stop wasting their time passing stupid laws and really get down to business. They need to concentrate on "The Self Preservation Act" - something that each state should be working on as well. I NEED a law to protect me from myself! I envision one where we can all sit home in our chairs, have our weekly government check electonically put in our account so we won't have to go out where we might do something to hurt ourselves. Wait a minute though . . . who is going to pay for this program? The "taxpayer' of course! Oh, poor planning on my part . . . I forgot that there will no longer be "taxpayers". Oh, well . . . the law will be written so it can't be repealed . . . . I guess they'll have to figure something out! Oh, oh . . . . . I got off on one of them there "tangents" . . . sorry 'bout that! Just think . . . my mind wandered just because Doc said something about makin' bullets out of tin. Maybe we're looking at this wrong . . . . the Lone Ranger used silver for his bullets . . . . . . I'd like to digress more on this subject but I've got to go out and yank the wheel weights off of my car tires . . . . . I'm getting ready to head back to Michigan from Arizona and I want to be the first one in my home state to be politically correct . . . . . just hope the vibrations from my car tires don't make it go all over the road . . . . I wouldn't want my vibrating tires to cause an accident and possibly make me cause injury to a condor . . . er . . . I mean another person . . . . . .

All in jest my friends so don't get bent out of shape over my comments, please . . . . . . .

April 7, 2010, 04:29 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	One of the billions of things I don't know I was reading some of the forums and other threads on this forum and a repeated topic emerged. I saw numerous references to a 90 grain .457 round ball. Obviously this is not lead and the weight (90 grains) seems to imply relatively pure tin. Anyone know what this is all about? Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 7, 2010, 05:12 PM	#2
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	That is a .392 dia. pure lead RB This is a link to a good RB alloy calculator. __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

April 7, 2010, 05:21 PM	#3
andrewstorm Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2009 Posts: 198	457 ball may be tin and could have somthing to do with the calif. ban on lead what fourm u see em on ?.

April 7, 2010, 07:54 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Gbro and Andrew Gbro, The posts I read said several times it was a .457 ball. They were talking about a Walker Colt. A .457 round ball of pure lead weighs about 147 grains give or take. For a .457 ball to weight 90 grains it would have to be pure tin and even that is a little high at 94 grains. Andrew, I'll buy your explanation but I was not aware that California banned the use of lead balls. I just read that someone has a patent on pure tin bullets. Didn't say if it was round balls but the patent is there. Better get out your scratch pads fellas. Learn something new every day. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 7, 2010, 09:59 PM	#5
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	Yeah, we have Condor (buzzard) zones where you can't even possess lead ammo. __________________ When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.

April 7, 2010, 10:24 PM	#6
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	fastforty . . . . . ah . . . when you say Condors (buzzards) . . . are you talking about real birds . . . . or politicians? Sorry . . . . couldn't help myself . . . .

April 8, 2010, 06:15 AM	#7
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Doesn't matter. The anti-lead requirement applies whether they're birds or politicians.

April 8, 2010, 07:42 AM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Wait a minute! Hold the phone! In California, you are not allowed to shoot condors with a lead bullet!? You have to use a tin bullet?! Or is it that you can't shoot politicians with tin bullets? So you have to use lead on a politician and tin on the condors If they could get the condors to migrate to where the politicians are and the politicians to migrate to where the condors were, they would both be safe. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 8, 2010, 02:16 PM	#9
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	What do lead balls have to do with Condors? Do they like to eat them or something? If so, that's a stupid bird that need extinktin... __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

April 8, 2010, 04:45 PM	#11
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	AFAIK, cast round balls (for firearms) aren't patentable, as designable bullets are. .

April 8, 2010, 05:47 PM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Right Petah The patent I saw was for "bullet" but did not make it clear what form the bullet was to be caste. I am sure there is a whole lot more to the narrative than I read. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 8, 2010, 05:48 PM	#13
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	As of this year, we can no longer put lead wheelweights on cars in California. I guess condors eat up the wheelweights that get scattered along the highways. Seriously, we've seen it in the past: as goes California, so goes the nation. Those of us who cast using wheelweights will soon be looking for alternate (more expensive) sources of lead.

April 8, 2010, 08:36 PM	#14
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I'm glad to see that California is right on top of things and in the forefront as usual . . . . really . . . I am. I'm all for protecting wildlife . . . why, in Michigan I've been lobbying to get a law passed so the state will have to supply the Whitetails with Kevlar vests . . . . too many of them are dying from lead poisoning back there . . . . if I can get it passed in Michigan, maybe the rest of the states will follow suit? When I'm done with that lobbying, I'm going to put a push on making it mandatory for cows to wear diapers . . . I'm sick of all of that pollution and besides, some kid might get injured using a cowpie for a frisbee . . . . let alone using a road apple in their slingshots . . . oh, I forgot . . . slingshots are banned as they lead to violence. I just wish that the new federal administration would stop wasting their time passing stupid laws and really get down to business. They need to concentrate on "The Self Preservation Act" - something that each state should be working on as well. I NEED a law to protect me from myself! I envision one where we can all sit home in our chairs, have our weekly government check electonically put in our account so we won't have to go out where we might do something to hurt ourselves. Wait a minute though . . . who is going to pay for this program? The "taxpayer' of course! Oh, poor planning on my part . . . I forgot that there will no longer be "taxpayers". Oh, well . . . the law will be written so it can't be repealed . . . . I guess they'll have to figure something out! Oh, oh . . . . . I got off on one of them there "tangents" . . . sorry 'bout that! Just think . . . my mind wandered just because Doc said something about makin' bullets out of tin. Maybe we're looking at this wrong . . . . the Lone Ranger used silver for his bullets . . . . . . I'd like to digress more on this subject but I've got to go out and yank the wheel weights off of my car tires . . . . . I'm getting ready to head back to Michigan from Arizona and I want to be the first one in my home state to be politically correct . . . . . just hope the vibrations from my car tires don't make it go all over the road . . . . I wouldn't want my vibrating tires to cause an accident and possibly make me cause injury to a condor . . . er . . . I mean another person . . . . . . All in jest my friends so don't get bent out of shape over my comments, please . . . . . . .