1866 versus 1873

[Doc Hoy]

Those of you who know about both, can you provide a comparison? Lets consider only clones for this discussion unless you speak of features of the originals which are pertinent. I have been wanting an 1873 but I found an Uberti 1866 which should go pretty cheap.

[Hawg]

1866 is a brass frame which is heavier. The 73 has side plates which are removable which help with clearing jams and make cleaning easier.

[4V50 Gary]

I'd go with a Henry '66 instead of the '73 Winchester. Certainly the Winchester is more modern (loading gate, closed bottom magazine), but I'm into the Civil War.

[Doc Hoy]

How about feed problems. Smoothness of the action.

The 66 goes new for about 130.00 less than the 73. Probly has more to do with the marketplace than the cost to manufacture (I am guessing).

The one I am looking at is in 38-40. How about any experience with that cartridge.

[Hawg]

The 1866 is a Winchester and has a loading gate. The Henry was an 1860. Production ceased in 1866 a year after the war.
Here you go Doc. Everything you ever wanted to know about the 38-40. http://www.chuckhawks.com/38-40win.htm

[Crunchy Frog]

No personal experience with the .38-40 but in case you don't know, the name of the cartridge is somewhat strange. It is derived from the .44-40 (the original chambering of the 1873 Winchester. The .44-40 was a .44 caliber bullet over forty grains of black powder. You'd think the .38-40 was a .38 caliber bullet over 40 grains of powder, right? Wrong! It's a .40 caliber bullet over .38 grains of black powder. According to Larry Potterfield, anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Zd0lZk-B8

My "main match" rifle is a Uberti 1873 chambered in .357. After my wife started shooting with me, I lucked into a Uberti 1866 chambered in .38 Special in a local pawn shop and bought it for her. I had to because she was about to take my '73!

Just for information purposes, the "real" 1866 Winchester was chambered in .44 Henry (same as the 1860 Henry rifle), a rimfire cartridge that is not being made today. According to the Uberti website, their reproduction 1866 rifles are available in .38 Special, .44-40 or .45 Colt. I have heard of other chamberings such as .44 Special and others may be out there.

The Uberti '66 and '73s are similar in several respects and both are fine. Mechanically they are pretty much the same which means they are distressingly stiff out of the box given the price but both slick up great if you will fork up a little more money. Both of our rifles eat ammo like candy. Personally I prefer the '73 but I got such a great deal on the '66 that I snapped it up.

As Hawg Haggen (howdy, Hawg) pointed out, the brass receiver makes the '66 a good bit heavier and it has a different balance point than the '73. Since I bought the '66 for my wife, who is kind of petite, this was a consideration, especially since the one I found is a "short rifle" with a 20 inch octagon barrel with a little .38 caliber bore. The rifle was a good bit heavier than my '73 with the same tube. I ended up having the '66 barrel bobbed to about 17 inches.

One mechanical difference is that the '73 has a lever safety that prevent the rifle from firing unless the lever is fully closed (there is a small spring loaded plunger behind the trigger that is depressed by the lever when closed). The '66 lacks this feature so there is some risk of an "out of battery discharge" if the trigger is pressed before the lever is fully closed. Some of the older (much older) Uberti 1866 reproductions had a lever safety but this feature actually first appeared on the 1873 Winchester rifle. I would not dismiss the '66 on this basis (else I would not have purchased one for my wife) but it's a comparison point.

There are more variations of the '73 available. For example you can choose between a "straight stock" or a "pistol grip stock" on the '73. All of the Uberti '66s I have seen are straight stocked. You can get the '73 chambered in .357 (the '66s are .38 Special) and Uberti offers the '73 carbine in .44 Magnum. Some of the '73 have blued receivers but most have the very attractive "color casehardened" (OK, it's a faux finish) finish on the receiver. The '66s have a brass receiver and some folks really like that so that's a subjective comparison point.

My Uberti '73 is the single most expensive firearm I have every purchased. It has been worth every penny. My wife thinks her '66 is the cat's whiskers. You can't go wrong with either.

[Doc Hoy]

Thanks a lot for the data.

I guess I might as well admit that I will prolly do like your did and wind up wif both of them.

Situation is that the 66 I am looking at is at a pawn shop as well. The asking price is 900.00. At that price I would simply add a hundred and thirty and buy a new one from Buffalo. This rifle is not in perfect shape and the 38-40 chambering would add yet another bullet I would have to be prepared to reload.

The action is stilll tight and the inside of the receiver is nice and clean. The brassis dull. The wood has some bruises in it that would take refinishing to get out. There is a large engraved inscription on the right side of the receiver which I think was put there after the purchase. That is a turn off. This thing could clean up into a nice rifle, but it isn't worth 900.00.

I saw the rifle about three months ago and asked for the bottom line. The owner told me he'd come off his price by fifty bucks. I declined so he knows I am not interested at 850.00. Just went to the shop again today and the rifle is still there with the same price. I am going to give it another coupla months and see what happens.

I am happy to have y'all's comments. You have told me what I needs to know.

I know the owner will come down but I don't know how much.

[vostracker]

I agree with what Hawg and Crunchy said. You need both anyway!

[Crunchy Frog]

Keep in mind that the .38-40 ammo, or components to reload it, are going to be significantly more expensive.

Also .38-40 (like .44-40) is a bottlenecked cartridge with a thin case neck so it's a little more complicated to reload. No carbide dies so you have to lube the cased before resizing.

Black powder shooters like these cartridges because the thin wall cases make a good seal in the chamber, preventing gas and fouling from flowing back into the action.

If you are not a black powder shooter I would pass on this rifle even if it were not significantly overpriced.

I'll send you a PM.

[vostracker]

I'd think about saving up and getting a new one in a caliber you already have. I've been weeding out some of my collection a little at a time to consolidate my calibers. Good luck!

[Beagle333]

Fortunately, Starline makes and sells new 38-40 brass.

[Doc Hoy]

To steer clear of the used 66 in FL primarily because of the caliber. I have a Henry in .357 and traded it away for a .45 LC.

If this guy won't come down from 850.00 my opinion is that the rifle is overpriced.

But even at a good price, the idea of beginning to reload a seventh different round is not a choice I would willingly make.

[Jbar4Ranch]

I just negotiated a price and contracted to buy a used Uberti .38-40 saddle ring carbine a few minutes ago for $625, shipped.

The problem is some gaudy inscriptions on each side...



... I think I can live with it though.

This one was also in a Florida pawn shop, but I don't think it's the same one because the seller was originally at $699 + shipping.

[Crunchy Frog]

You could purchase new sideplates to replace the engraved ones but I doubt it would be cost effective.

At least it's not someone else's name engraved on it.

[Doc Hoy]

That is it!

Dade City, FL



When I make my monthly excursion to the University Main Campus, I stay at a Hampton Inn about a quarter mile from it.

Do you live close by?

[Jbar4Ranch]

Wow, he came down a BUNCH!

[Doc Hoy]

When I visited the shop, the 899.00 price tag was still on it. that was about two or three days ago.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Do I live close by?

No.

I live in the foothills of the Great Divide near Helena, MT.

I have seven other .38-40 rifles and three Ruger Vaquero .40 S&W/.38-40 convertibles, as well as many, many dozens of bags of WW brass. Sportsman's Warehouse closed it out a few years ago, and I bought every bag left in the warehouse for something like $9.17 a bag.

[Jbar4Ranch]

It was won by a Cowboy Action Shooter by the name of "Whitehair Trigger".

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?...1#entry2771307

[Crunchy Frog]

Small world, right?

[Doc Hoy]

I am happy that someone got it who would rally use it and appreciate it.

As I said previously, I had about decided not to buy it because of the various aspects of the rifle. (Wrong caliber for me, condition and price, which actually turned out not to be a factor.)

I am also happy to learn that the owner of the shop has figured out how to reach a larger market. He is a decent guy and deserves to be successful.

[Bootsie]

According to the few gunsmiths I know who are initiates of repairung and tuning cowboy guns here in Germany they advise:
# over the years Uberti changed both their Win 66 and 73 significantly. This implies no more spares might be available for earlier production rifles or carbines. The 66 was made from as early as 1963 if memory serves.
# due to this situation these smiths refuse to tune or repair Uberti lever guns with a prefix before "W" in front of the serial number because modern made parts will not interchange.

[Doc Hoy]

I don't know the age of that rifle, but I did handle it and the action is relatively tight. By that I mean appears to be in good condition and appears (to me) to have been used little.

It is a nice rifle. I think JBar will be happy with it. He got it for what I consider to be a good price.

[Crunchy Frog]

There are some older Uberti rifles circulating that don't match up to the recent imports. A friend has an early '66 that he cannot upgrade. I passed up a .38 caliber 1866 carbine because it was an early import. Not cheap either!

[John Barleycorn]

I think the 73 is easier to clean after shooting BP.