Tactical pigeon shooting

[Irish B]

How many of you have taken your hd scattergun out to clay shoot after you've installed a pistol grip and have found it to be completely worthless. When my 870 was bone stock I could hit every clay every time. I used to brag about being a great shot with clays. I installed my spec ops shock absorbing stock and hit maybe 50% of the clays at most (obviously this was the day I decided to bring my wife out to show off what a great shot I was) Does anyone actually successfully wing hunt with a pistol grip setup? I've come to the realization that you need two shotguns. A tacticool hd shotgun and a nice wing gun.

[mete]

You don't need a pistol grip for tactical either !!! You know what KISS means ? That's always the rule Simple !

[Hansam]

I shoot trap with my hunting rifle. Its got a thumbhole stock on it (factory) and I typically shoot low 20's with it.

I have shot trap with a shotgun with a pistol grip as well (JUST the pistol grip no actual stock) and frankly that's just darned stupid. I took 5 shots with it and set it down. Couldn't hit a darned thing because I couldn't get it up to get a good bead on anything without risking getting the rear of the gun in jaw from recoil.

That day was about 10 yrs ago and I haven't liked pistol grips on shotguns since. Thumbhole stocks or pistol grip stocks with an actual stock to shoulder are nice but just pistol grip stocks are dumb.

[zippy13]

When my 870 was bone stock I could hit every clay every time.

I shoot trap with my hunting rifle. Its got a thumbhole stock on it (factory) and I typically shoot low 20's with it.

Yikes, it's getting pretty deep around here, is it time to roll up your cuffs?

Some forum members seem to be stumbling over definitions when it comes to pistol grips: A grip or pistol grip stock is a regular sporting stock (as opposed to a straight, or English butt stock). A stock with a separate pistol grip, like an AR, is called a detached pistol grip stock. And, just a pistol grip is known as a pistol grip only, or PGO stock.

[Hansam]

Yikes, it's getting pretty deep around here, is it time to roll up your cuffs?

My mistake. I was awake too early and I meant "hunting shotgun" not "hunting rifle."

Sorry I just came back to read what I wrote and yeah its not supposed to be rifle.

[zippy13]

Hansam,
Just keeping you honest.
If you were shooting in the 20s with a rifle, I'm sure my friend, TheKlawMan, (and others) would want all sorts of details and pointers. I hope he's not already drilling a thumbhole in his new B-gun.

[Darren Roberts]

Ergonomics and Body Mechanics

First think about "tactical". "Tactical" designs are made fore shooting targets roughly the same height and size as you are...Other people!
Now where are other people usually at? How about...on the ground.
Shooting clay pigeons usually does not require "tactical" operations or equipment. Those systems were not ergonomically designed for shooting upward and leading.

Body Mechanics
When shooting with a standard straight stock your hand placement causes the muscles in your forearm to extend, resulting in your arm and weapon become a single extension of the shoulder.
When using a detachable grip system the muscles in your forearm contract, because of the flexion at the wrist. This causes a secondary pivot point at the elbow. It also changes the balance feel of the weapon.

Same as firing a mini sub without a but stock. To get the steadiest FFP you extend the weapon away from the body using the pull of the strap to brace the weapon and your arms

I would lose the detachable and go with a straight stock.

[TheKlawMan]

If you were shooting in the 20s with a rifle, I'm sure my friend, TheKlawMan, (and others) would want all sorts of details and pointers. I hope he's not already drilling a thumbhole in his new B-gun.

Ouch!

[StuntManMike]

I prefer stocks with pistol grips for everything except shooting at flying clay pigeons. The conventional stock works better for this for me.

[Dave McC]

Congrats, Irish. You found out just how useless a PGO was before any critical moment where your life and that of your family depended on it.

"When my 870 was bone stock I could hit every clay every time"....

There's a clue there. Return your 870 to its prior condition. Sell the PG to someone you do not like....

A PGO's sole advantage is in ease of storage.

FWIW, I took a shotgun that's part of my homeowner's insurance plan to the range this AM and shot a round of wobble. Hadn't shot this one much lately, maybe a year since I fired anything through it. Hit about 20/25 on a day with a serious wind gust condition, say 10-15 MPH. This 870 is a parts gun named Frankenstein, today it wore the 26" barrel,not the 21" turkey barrel. I may or may not change it back after cleaning and replacing the buck loads it usually has.

. My other two "Serious" 870s also have stocks. Total rounds through these three in aggregate must be close to 40K,maybe more.

Another clue there......

[Irish B]

Actually as for shooting slugs and buckshot the shock absorbing butt stock with pistol grip makes the gun a lot easier to handle, eliminates muzzle rise, and makes for a much quicker follow up shot. Its only useless when I try to clay shoot. Each setup has it's uses. Since I rarely wing shoot and my shotgun is primarily for home defense i'll leave it as it. I just wondered if anyone actually successfully wing shot with a tactical setup. The spec ops setup is very comfortable and maneuverable, just not when you need to shoot something above your head. So if ever my home is invaded by a gang of geese i'll be in trouble. But short of that I'm very comfortable with the spec ops setup.

Heres the stock:

[PJR]

I've tried the full-stock pistol grip for HD purposes. I suppose I could get used to it however hundreds of thousands of stock mounts with standard stocks has ingrained a pretty deep muscle memory. Having to switch in a moment of stress to something that doesn't come up naturally doesn't make much sense so I've stayed with the standard stock.

[TheKlawMan]

Are tactical pigeons best recognized by body armor or what?

[jaguarxk120]

Since most if not all tackycool guns are black, then it stands to reason the pigeons should be black to.

One question do you use a breacher choke tube on the pigeons?

[Irish B]

The pigeons don't have to be black. That's racist! They do usually carry ak's though.

[oneounceload]

Are tactical pigeons best recognized by body armor or what?

Klawman - when you get a chance to shoot flyers, you'll see that those live pigeons do indeed have armored feathers on them

[TheKlawMan]

Now I recall an old WW2 era cartoon with a Nazi pigeon that had an swastika armband and a German style helmut.

[StuntManMike]

I've tried the full-stock pistol grip for HD purposes. I suppose I could get used to it however hundreds of thousands of stock mounts with standard stocks has ingrained a pretty deep muscle memory. Having to switch in a moment of stress to something that doesn't come up naturally doesn't make much sense so I've stayed with the standard stock.

You hit the nail on the head with your post.

This is the primary reason that most people who learned on conventional stocks have difficulty making the switch.

[Dave McC]

Irish,I just told you. I wingshoot with my tactical setup and do a fairtomiddlin' job.

Those gimmick stocks do have some validity,IMO. However, long experience and some scars tell me to keep things my life depends on as simple as I can.

The standard shotgun stock looks and works as it does due to more than 200 years of T&E. That springy thing, less than 30.

However, if the gimmick does work better ofr you,go ahead on. Results count way more than opinions...

Oh yes, tactical pigeons have Kevlar plumage and carbon fiber beaks. Their droppings are miniature flashbangs that detonate on impact.

And Mike, I COULD make the switch, but I don't wanna. Results are what counts.

[LSnSC]

Go to a 3 gun match and see who is shooting fast and accurate with a shotgun. Ignoring the race guns, its the guys with standard stocks and vent ribbed guns. The guys with the tactikool guns tend to struggle.

[Creek Henry]

My theory of 'tactical guns' is simple: if you can't hit skeet or clays with a tac grip or short barrel, what good is it? Okay, so you can turn a corner in a house faster. If you can't hit what you aim or point at, what good is it? If you can shoot well with a high tech stock, then great, use it. If you can't, what good is it?

Some turkey hunters like them but they put them on dedicated 12 ga 3.5" guns instead of 10 gauge guns, so you wonder if they are thinking clearly anyway :)

[Fishbed77]

I shoot trap with my hunting rifle.

Dang, Hansam, that's pretty impressive!

[Irish B]

Again my defense for having the butt stock I have is that is makes for extremely easy and quick follow up shots. It absorbs the recoil and keeps you on target. Not only that but now my wife isn't afraid to use the shotgun (even though she has her own 9mm for home defense). I think there are pros and cons to a setup like the Knoxx Specops. I've just come to the conclusion that if I want to shoot clay, or actually bird hunt, I'm going to need to get a separate wing gun.

[bpeezer]

Again my defense for having the butt stock I have is that is makes for extremely easy and quick follow up shots.

I would think this would only be significant when using a semi automatic shotgun, but I also don't think you need to defend your choice of that stock. There's nothing wrong with using a stock like that if it works for you. It might even be a good idea for someone who's used to shooting ARs and such. To your original question, a good friend of mine prefers to shoot clays with a detached pistol grip and he does ok with it.

[PJR]

My theory of 'tactical guns' is simple: if you can't hit skeet or clays with a tac grip or short barrel, what good is it? Okay, so you can turn a corner in a house faster. If you can't hit what you aim or point at, what good is it? If you can shoot well with a high tech stock, then great, use it. If you can't, what good is it?

Some turkey hunters like them but they put them on dedicated 12 ga 3.5" guns instead of 10 gauge guns, so you wonder if they are thinking clearly anyway

They are two completely different activities. For wing/clay shooting you are pursuing an airborne target that is moving. The visual focus is on the target with the barrel/bead in the peripheral vision. Meanwhile a tactical gun is deployed like a large bore rifle or handgun. Focus on the front sight with the target in the periphery.

The turkey hunters are thinking clearly. In my part of the world at least turkey hunting is done from a sitting position with the bird being called in to your position. A full-stock pistol grip is more comfortable and easier to use than a standard shotgun stock.