An Easier Rack Or Slide for a Semi

[BlindMansBluff]

I have always been favorible to smaller caliber guns for one reason. well, because I'm a panzie and I don't feel comfortable with a heavy or hard slide.

even when I use to see I prefered .22, .25 and .32 pistols for the simple pull and racking of the slide.

I bring this up because now that I am blind I feel and so does my Spotter, feels that I am limitting myself by only pocessing a Taurus M85 5 shot .38. its a great weapon and performs flawlessly but well its 5 shots. I am not looking for debates, but I am looking to purchase a semi with a simple easy to pull slide.

I have been training with a trainer at Shooter's world and he "insists" on working with me on a Glock19 I am not sure if he wants to get a commision off the gun if the shop sales it to me or what ever but the slide is very tough for me to pull and I don't like it.

my Spotter has a glock19 and he even let me try it out on the range and well he actually had to rack it back for me because well, I couldn't chamber a round it was too tough.

I'm sorry I know this really makes me sound whimpy but I'm being honest and I am looking for advice. even if my primary weapon is my Taurus, I want to buy a Semi-Auto that I can learn to maintain and clean and operate now that I am blind just as I do with my revolver.

[JohnKSa]

The Ruger P95 & P89 have easy to rack slides and can usually be purchased for well under $400. Capacity is 15+1. I haven't tested every gun on the market, but the P95 slide is the easiest to pull back of any 9mm that I've found so far.

The 9mm Beretta PX4 has a slide that's pretty easy to rack. It's a nicer gun as well with interchangeable grip inserts, and a chrome-lined barrel. Capacity is 17+1 with 20 round factory magazines available if you're so inclined. I find it to be more accurate than the two aforementioned Rugers. It's a bit more than the Rugers in terms of price.

For yet more money, the H&K USP 9mm slide is also easy to operate.

[BlindMansBluff]

To Clarify my Spotter and my trainer are two different persons. my Spotter is a 7 Year Army Vet. my trainer is a Former LEO. I think my trainer has good intentions (I hope) but he is very persistant and I feel if I to do something different rather than do what he feels is for my own good because I am blind, he won't work with me anymore. and well as far as I know he is the only trainer that will work with a blind man.

Now my Spotter on the other hand is the most realist, coolest, most patient giving person I have met. He free of charge picks me up and spends his time spotting me and even when I have offered him a 20.00$ for his time he refuses it and he is just glad to let me target shoot. He is very encouraging and has never told me realistically I can't do something.

He is very quick on his feet and is smarter than I'll ever get out.

as a matter of fact on our first Spotting Meeting he just out of no where developed a tactile image of where I am shooting the target with touches on my back, representing shots on the COM or where ever on the target.

For example if I hit the target in the middle of the chest saya little below the neck he'll tap me in the upper middle of my back, it allows me to gage my first hit and then follow up my other shots near by or knowing comfortably where I am aiming.

We also work on mussle memory, etc. He's awsome.

[Hellbilly5000]

If you are not comfortable with the slide on a glock by all means then do not get one. For all shooters it is imperative (specifically in your case) that you be familiar and comfortable with a gun and it feels natural to you.

[inSight-NEO]

Some purport using the method of holding the weapon close to your chest and using leverage, pulling back on the slide while simultaneously pushing the body of the gun forward. While doing this, grasp the slide with four fingers grasping the "strong hand" side of the slide (ejection port side if right handed), with the thumb on the other side.

Another method is to hold the slide with four fingers gripping the "weak hand side" and the thumb on the strong hand side (the other hand gripping tightly on the body of the gun, of course). With the gun tilted to the side (ejection port facing up..assuming you are right handed) and held away from you, drive your gun hand (strong side) forward while pulling back with the opposite arm/shoulder (weak side)..again, using leverage.

With both techniques, be sure to use a "grasping" motion and try not to merely use your fingers only. The main thing to remember here is use a push/pull type motion (along with the necessary shift in body weight), thus taking full advantage of leverage.

[Shadi Khalil]

You might want to look into tip up barrel beretta's.

[guns_svaz]

Well, if you prefer small calibers & want an easy to rack slide I would suggest you check out the Ruger Mk III's (.22RL), or if you want a bigger caliber, check out the Bersa/Firestorm line in .22LR & .32 ACP. Regardless of gun, you'll want to hold the slide weak-hand and push the gun with your firing hand.

Cheers.

[Blue Steel]

Plus one on the info from Insight NEO.

The Glock action is one of the easier full size autos to cycle, and if you are having trouble you may need to work on technique. I have seen women and pre-teen children have no issues cycling a handgun action after working on technique.

Think about taking a stuck lid off a jar. You don't hold the jar out away from you, you pull it in close to the body where you can apply the most force. You can work a handgun action in a similar technique. Hold the gun in a high-compressed ready position (muzzle downrange, grip hand/firearm over your sternum, forearm resting against your ribcage). Bring your off hand over the top of the gun with the pad of your hand against one set of cocking serrations and as your hand wraps over the top of the piece your fingers will grip on the opposite side cocking serrations. Push forward with your grip hand while pulling back with your support hand, and when the action is completely open release your off-hand grip and let the slide slam forward.

Good luck and happy shooting.

[Sport45]

This is strictly for target shooting, correct? Since the size of the hole in a piece of paper doesn't matter I say get a .22lr. I have a Ruger 22/45 with 4" barrel and really like it. I understand Smith and Browning make good .22 pistols that won't break the bank as well.

Don't forget there are revolvers out there as well. No racking at all required.

[BlindMansBluff]

most of my shooting will come from targets but my concern over the slide is in case of SD.

and Sport45 it would help if you read the whole post. It would answer your question

[Sport45]

My bad, I did miss the last sentence. I saw the revolver in your blog after I posted, but didn't go back and change it.

In your shoes I'd still stick with a .22lr and target only. With all due respect I don't know how you can responsibly use a firearm for self defense. How could you be sure of your target and know what's behind it if you miss?

[BlindMansBluff]

I am trying with all my might to be civil at this point. I ask you two things being that you are now consiidered in my book to be a gun leetest.
1. How would you answer that when the government or cops or military asks you that question right back at you.
2. If for any reason have you been temporarily unsighted/vissualy impaired wheather it was for one second or up to minutes, and in that time frame can you really tell me if you had to you wouldn't protect yourself. would you be the one willing to call A Blind Man's Bluff?

I am shocked that the NRA and all pro gun folks who preach about SD claim that it is unfair that Cops and the Government want to take their right away from SD or HD but you choose to take that right from me?

I know I should have PM-ed this and I am sorry to the board for publicl venting but I get this too much in public, I don't need this treatment here.

[Xwrench3]

i am not going to give you a hard time about being blind, and shooting. i think it is great that you are not letting this challenge stop your intrests. personaly, i do not believe you should buy anything because someone else is cramming it down your throat. what good is a glock 19 going to do you if it is only a small hand held club? which is all it is going to be if you can not get a round in the chamber when you need to. your instructor really needs to back off and realize that you have limitations other than your sight. if he is truely trying to help you, it should not matter to him whether you are shooting the glock, or an eastern block tokarov (spelling may be off), or a broom handle mauser. you might ask him why it is so important to him that you own a pistol that you have great trouble opperating. maybe then he will either explain to you the great benifit, or back off some. i do know that some people have terrific brand and / or model loyalty. and if that is the case, he just needs to back down. not everyone should drive a Ferrari. nor, could they.

[Sport45]

Forgive me if I have offended. I too am trying to be civil, thus the "all due respect" comment in my message. And I truly mean you no disrespect.

You are no doubt aware of the four rules of gun safety. Jeff Coopers version goes like this:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Can you explain how you intend to follow the last three rules? Without knowing this I cannot concur that this is responsible use of a firearm and respectfully suggest pepper spray or a bladed weapon instead.

I hold a permit to carry a concealed handgun. With that permit came training and the knowledge that I am responsible for each and every bullet that I discharge. If I miss an attacker and hit an innocent bystander I can be charged for their injury or death. If I shoot at a home invader and the bullet hits a window instead it can travel upwards of a mile. I'm responsible for that bullet until it comes to rest. It would be irresponsible for me to shoot at anything I couldn't see and it seems to me that your situation is no different.

I provided suggestions for pistols that are easy to charge. I could probably charge my 22/45 with my teeth if I needed to. It's that easy to pull the bolt back.

As for your questions to me:

1. How would you answer that when the government or cops or military asks you that question right back at you.

Can you please rephrase this so I can better tell what you're asking?

2. If for any reason have you been temporarily unsighted/visually impaired whether it was for one second or up to minutes, and in that time frame can you really tell me if you had to you wouldn't protect yourself. would you be the one willing to call A Blind Man's Bluff?

I most certainly would protect myself in any way I could. But I would not pull the trigger even if I had a gun in my hand when I was blinded by the attacker's light, flash powder, or whatever. I have a wife and children and would not take a chance on putting a bullet into any of them.

Please keep in mind that when you post on a forum like this not all opinions will mirror your own.

[Don P]

Your trainer must understand that YOU must be able to function with the handgun comfortably. Out of all the semi-autos I have, In my opinion the Beretta 92FS is the easiest slide to rack and is comprable in price to most of the semi-autos mentioned.

[BlindMansBluff]

Sport45:

wow You'd trust me with a knife but not a gun. Would I stab the wrong person with a knife as well?

and read your own question to me in the first post you wrote and ask yourself the question and lets just sy it was asked from a LEO or a Soldier speaking to you as a civilian.

Also you must rely so much on your vision that you would be "really helpless" for example if you did temorarily lose sight or any other primary function for that matter. its pretty sad, and as noted I use to fully see at one point.

I am not looking for all opinions to match mine, I see how people on this boa5rd fight over weather Taurus is a piece of crap or not. revolver or Cemi, Black or Blue, Silver or Pink. its all the same.

and just to let you know Sport45, I'd never pull the trigger in SD unless they are an arms Length away, essentially if I had hand contact with them.

BTW, my Spotter told me they were taught to Field Strip his service weapon in the dark. and I know for a fact advanced MA training has nonvisual training as well. so for you to act as if this is the most erresponsible thing I can ever do I am not even sure why I let you frustrate me to begin with.

[Shorts]

Someone up there mentioned the Beretta Cheetah 86 (.380), it has a tip up barrel. I had one and it was a great gun. I think what folks need to remember is that just because it is tip up doesn't mean that you never have to operate the slide. That's just not true. For cleaning you've got to. Clearing a jam you have to (there was some ammo it didn't like). The slide could be tough. But I only have one hand, you have two. You stand a better shot at operating a slide better than I with the right technique.


I don't like small semiautos. I find the slide tough to operate, they're stiff and there's not enough room you use leverage and pinch. I prefer the 1911. Depending on which load you use, (and slide length), you can change out the recoil spring for optimum cycling and manual operation. I can easily use one hand. 5" easiest, 4.25" still good, 3-3.5" toughest (not as much leverage).

Anyhow, that's what works for me. I don't know what platform you're looking to or how your spotter feels about other options. Find what you need. I know how it is when you need to use a tool exactly how you imagine it needs to work. Good luck.

[Jim Watson]

If you don't like a Glock, don't buy a Glock.

A pistol with exposed hammer will be easier to rack if you cock the hammer first so you are only fighting the recoil spring and not the mainspring.

You can substitute a reduced power recoil spring. Many IPSC competitors use less than standard springs and their guns last for many thousands of rounds.

That said, I do not consider the slide being difficult to rack a factor in defensive gun selection. If you can rack the slide at all, you can load the gun at leisure when you can get a good grip, grit your teeth, and pull hard. That will make it ready for trouble.

At the range likewise. Get the gun loaded once and you can shoot all day without racking the slide again. It will either be loaded and being shot or empty with the slide locked back while not being shot. It will be ready to reload by inserting a fresh magazine and pushing the slide stop lever down. I know a rather dainty lady who follows that procedure.

[fast-eddie]

I've head the Beretta cheetahs in .380 have a tip up barrel.

[BlindMansBluff]

Jim, and to the post before his:

thanks, this is good info to know. actually I forgot about the slide beingin the back position when the mag was empty. it is just reactionary to release it after dropping the mag and putting in a fresh one and then reracking it? over kill huh? I should change my ways then. I guess that is how I was taught.

and hammer cock first befor slide is a good idea as well, I'll try that. the Glock is a great feeling gun in my hand, and maybe I'll try it again if it has a hammer exposed.

I'll be heading to the range today in a bit.

[Hellbilly5000]

Sport45 you do not know all of BlindmansBluffs situation. He may live alone and if so He would be the first one to hear if someone was breaking in.
Blind people typically have a strong sense of smell, better hearing and there touch is more sensitive then yours or mine.
He has every legal and moral right to protect himself as anyone else in this forum. I for one think it is awesome that he gets out there and shoots.
Just remember sport45 most handicap people are more capable then me or you when it comes to real life.
motivation is one hell of a huge factor and a lot of it comes from wanting to prove to other people that there are just as good at doing things as you or I.

[raimius]

A longer barrel or different operating system might help. Personally, I dislike the weight of the recoil spring in a 3 inch 1911, but the 5 inch model is fine. (I find clearing an officer length 1911 and locking the slide back to be annoyingly awkward.)


Glocks are all striker fired, pre-cocking the hammer is not possible. A 1911, SIG, USP, ect. would work.

[SGHOTH]

I would recommend a 9mm full size gun. A large full size slide will be easier to grasp. The mass of a full size steel slide should result in a lower spring rate for the slide. This will lower the racking force needed.

Even in that catagory there are many differences. Some like the CZ and the Witness have vertically short slides which may cause you problems. You may need to try a bunch of types to find one that feels good to you. Off the top of my head I would recommend trying something like the Ruger P series semi-autos. They are big and heavy but easy to rack, especially after a couple of hundred rounds have been run through them.

[BlindMansBluff]

I tried out the p95 and the 92fs, they both felt great and the slides were perfect.

I sadly couldn't rent them though due to the fact the range had no 9MM RDS for target.

but I really liiked both of them, the 92fs is a little out my price range but I can get a p95 if I get to shoot one

[Hellbilly5000]

Blindmansbluff
Sense you are considering a Ruger P95 I do want to give you for warning that they are great guns after the first 200 to 250 rounds, Before then then will have several ftl's and fte's and maybe a ftf but not likely. They just need to get broken in a little. Also if you can find one, one of the older ruger p series will also work (i also have a p85 that I love).