Question about soft adjustable combs or rubber patches

Hank15 · February 12, 2012, 12:45 PM

My brain is now telling me "screw off" after the 2nd or 3rd round of trap on weekends.

So one of the seasoned shooters at the range recommended a rubber patch or a soft adjustable comb.

I was wondering if any of you had experience with this company:

http://www.shockmaster.com/order.html

The price looks reasonable but I've never heard of anyone on this forum use it.

Also, do any of you use rubber patches? If so, what kind?

Let me know, thanks!

BigJimP · February 12, 2012, 03:56 PM

Tell us a little more about what you're feeling in terms of pain and where...

a...in your face, you shoulder, where...
b. what gun are you shooting, weight if you know it, length of barrel, gague
c. what shells are you shooting ....how much shot ( 1 oz, 1 1/8oz, etc and velocity of them )...

I'm just trying to understand whats happening...so maybe we can come up with another, even cheaper, solution.

I do not have any experience with that product.../ GraCoil is the system I have on one of my Trap guns ...and I like it / but I don't have it installed on my skeet, sporting clays of field guns...( and don't really need it on the trap gun either...but the used trap gun I bought had one installed).

Couzin · February 12, 2012, 04:57 PM

What BigJimP said! Check all that first. Even a poor fit gun shouldn't beat you up if only a couple rounds. I also don't know if you have already settled on the stock fitting company you listed but I have had Ken Rucker (Speedbump Stockworks) put adjustable combs on a couple of my guns and was very happy with the cost, function, and fit. He does the recoil systems also - but I have no problem with recoil.

zippy13 · February 12, 2012, 05:40 PM

The Shockmaster is the unit I have on my trap gun. I'd had several years experience with a JS Air Cushion conversion on my Skeet gun (it uses the same air unit) and I was quite satisfied with the system. For my new trap gun, I went with a Shockmaster over another JS for two reasons: The Shockmaster was cheaper and it offered more adjustability that the JS system, but it's not as pretty. Also, the owner of Shockmaster was a well respected member of my T & S club.

An advantage of the JS Air Cushion and Shockmaster systems, not found in some others, is your face is cushioned, too. You can shoot them all day and not get your cheek and shoulder tenderized.

Hank15 · February 12, 2012, 07:49 PM

Hey guys.

A) My right cheek gets sore and my head hurts.

B) I have the 870 Wingmaster, but I installed a Monte Carlo stock on it.
28 in barrel, 12 gauge

C) Generic WalMart shells. I know it's 7 1/2 shot, but I am not sure about the other specs. Unfortunately I don't have a box with me.

Quote:

An advantage of the JS Air Cushion and Shockmaster systems, not found in some others, is your face is cushioned, too.

I think that's exactly what I am looking for...just some cushion for my cheeks.

But I'd like to hear what others have to say as well.

Thanks everyone!

TheKlawMan · February 12, 2012, 08:24 PM

I am only a sophmore shooter, while some of these guys are post doctorates with tenured professorships.

I was wondering why you got a monte carlo stock? Everyone is different and what is good for one may not help another. You may wish to take a look at a book called "Stcok Fitter's Bible". Your problem may not so much be recoil but the way your gun reacts to it.

Say the pitch of the butt pad is right for me, but it may not be right for you. If it is off for your fit, it may allow the barrel to rise more than it should and that could slap you with the comb. Apologies to all and the writer of that book if I got this wrong. A simple solution could be a wedge shaped shim between the stock and the recoil pad.

Roland Oswald offers a temporary and very inexpensive experiment to see if you need a tapered shim, which is to insert washers on the top recoil pad screw. If I understand him, you can also experiment with a longer LOP but inserting a washet on both the uppper and lower screws.

BigJimP · February 13, 2012, 12:50 PM

Only someone that can watch you shoot in person can really fix the issue...but my hunch is, its more about "fit" than anything ...and to some extent, the shells you chose.

My hunch is, the gun is recoiling into your face - and pushing the meat in your face up against the cheek bone...so it hurts. When what you ideally want is for the recoil to be back and forth just under the cheek bone ...not up against it.

A soft pad on the comb might help ..but it won't cure the root cause.

Shooting lighter loads will probably help - but won't cure it either.

If you're shooting shells that are loaded with 7 1/2's ...then they will usually be 1 1/8oz of shot ...and 3 Dram Equivalent or higher. Look for something like "Dove and Quail Loads" or Light Target loads....with 1 oz of shot in them ...and whether they are 8's or 7 1/2's doesn't really matter...and 3 Dr Equivalent is ok ...but 2 3/4 Dr Eq would be better...and don't confuse the box markings for 2 3/4" or 3" shells with the Dram Equivalent markings...if they list velocity on the box ...look for something in 1oz at 1150 fps or 1200 fps...but no faster than 1200 fps.

My hunch is ...you're "crabbing" into the gun ...dropping your head to the comb vs letting the gun come up to your face...which can make a lot of this stuff worse....but I'm just guessing, you need someone to watch you mount the gun / and stand next to you as you shoot...( you might be lifting your head, letting go of the gun with your pistol grip area hand....all kinds of things can cause this stuff )...but the root cause is almost 100% likely "Fit" ...and find some softer shooting shells.

1 oz of 8's ....or even 7/8 oz of 8's for Trap from 16 - 20 yd line is all any of us need to break Trap singles ...and 1150 fps is plenty fast enough / although when you get the gun fitting properly --- shooting 300 shells - even with 1 1/8 oz at 1225 fps or even 1250 fps ....should not cause you any pain / maybe some fatigue ...but not soreness in your face.

Good luck ....at least you're asking / before you give up the sport...

oneounceload · February 13, 2012, 01:37 PM

You realize the Shockmaster unit is 945 and the padded comb is a 130 option?

This sounds like the classic "gun doesn't fit you right" scenario - an affliction that seems to happen to most shooters as most of us do not seem to fit the "average" dimensions used by gun makers.

I wouldn't even go with 1oz lo0ads, try 7/8 until you get the stock fitted - after all, International trap is a 24 gram load and their scores went UP after adopting the smaller load.

Those generic wally world promo loads are typically 1-1/8 oz. Look for the blue Federal Top Gun loads there - the 1oz at 1250. They run $4.77 per box, making them cheaper than the promos.

As mentioned, you need someone watching your form, and I'll bet, a stock modification -it isn't just the comb height or lack of it, but also the thickness and its shape at the top that also plays a role. Too many think LOP is the only factor - there are many more than that involved

zippy13 · February 13, 2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

A) My right cheek gets sore and my head hurts.

B) I have the 870 Wingmaster, but I installed a Monte Carlo stock on it. 28 in barrel, 12 gauge

Humm… My Remington stick gun (1100 Trap) has a Monte Carlo stock, too; but, it also has a raised rib. As my friend, Big Jim mentioned, you may be putting your face too much into the stock. If your stock is too high, with respect to the rib, you're going to get beat up. What style stock did you have before you installed the Monte Carlo? You may have gone from a stock that was too low to one that's too high.

You can get your cheek hurt by a shotgun in two ways: impact and friction. If the gun in coming up into your face because of recoil, it's going to bruise you. Some added weight up front may ease cheek punch. If the stock is rubbing your face, and you have tender skin, it's going to cause abrasion. Many folks are fine after a hundred targets; but, after a weekend's tournament and 500+ targets their cheeks start to get hurt from the friction. I know one old trap shooter who sports a beard just to insulate his skin from the stock. Another trick is to apply some talc stick (electric razor pre-shave) to your cheek. Go to any big weekend tournament and you may see a few guys with white stuff on their cheek. They're trying to avoid looking like they lost a fight when they get back to work Monday morning.

oneounceload · February 13, 2012, 03:21 PM

Another option to the friction might be the installation of a Beartooth neoprene sleeve on the stock. I installed one sold by CSMC, more to prevent my salty sweat in thew summer from screwing up the wood any more than it already is, but it does provide a smidgen of padding that might help without raising your head any more than it already is

http://www.csmcspecials.com/Stock_Guard_p/e0175.htm

TheKlawMan · February 13, 2012, 11:42 PM

A shooting buddy of mine who's cheek was bleeding well before the end of a day of 4 boxes tried a couple of things on his Benelli Cordoba. He tried a higher comb (It takes 3 different rubber combs) and that didn't help. A stock wrap like the one oneounce mentioned stopped the bleeding

Every day his cheed was bloody. I had watched and most of the times it recoiled straight back but on ocassion the barrel lifted up. I couldn't tell just what he was doing but the soft wrap stopped the bleedintg and allowed his cheek to heal.

Ricklin · February 14, 2012, 11:58 PM

Pressing your cheek TOO firmly to the stock can cause pain............ask me how I know.

Remember eye on the rock, head on the stock.

PawPaw · February 15, 2012, 09:08 AM

I agree that stock fit is paramount in the shotgun games, but there are a few little tricks to make a not-quite-right stock punish you less.

One thing we used to do was to go to a shoe store and buy moleskin pads to build a stock up to the point where it fit properly. Granted, most of us were fellows who were always broke and couldn't afford a stock fitting. We could barely afford to buy shells for the Saturday shoot. We'd add moleskin, tape things to our stocks, do what it took to get the eye looking down the barrel.

One thing that I did on a light rifle recently was to add one of those Allen Buttstock cartridge carriers, and built up the stock with foam pipe insulation. The rifle had too much drop in the comb, and now when I put my cheek on the stock, I can see directly through the scope. Total cost? About five bucks.

zippy13 · February 15, 2012, 04:53 PM

PawPaw's right about the moleskin. Many stocks have been introduced to Dr. Scholl's while their owner's were looking for a proper fit and cheek relief. The real trick would be a stick-on that lowered the stock.

Hank15 · February 17, 2012, 07:31 PM

Thanks for all the tips guys.

I will have a few seasoned shooters/pros watch me in person and present your ideas to them.

Hope it works out.

I will keep you guys updated

Hank15 · February 26, 2012, 01:36 AM

A seasoned shooter helped me figure out the problem at the range.

Looks like the length of pull is correct, especially since he corrected me to mount the gun prior to calling the bird.

However, the comb is just a tad too short for my cheek to rest firmly and comfortably on it for 4 rounds of trap.

He recommended:

http://speedbumpbusterprices.blogspot.com/

or

http://www.bosesguns.com/stockaccessories.html

for the best price/quality ratio.

Which of the two would you guys recommend?

zippy13 · February 26, 2012, 12:53 PM

Before you spend a lot money on a conversion, please know: An 870's stock can be altered a little by slightly changing the wood shoulder where it joins the receiver. You may have to tweak the bolt hole. Neither of the systems you referenced seems to do anything to isolate your cheek from the recoil or friction.

Hank15 · February 26, 2012, 05:20 PM

Thanks Pete, do you know anyone in particular that can perform the work you just described?

zippy13 · February 27, 2012, 02:27 PM

Back in the day, just about every local gun shop had someone who could tweak a 870/1100 stock -- it's not rocket science, but you need to know a little about working wood. Do you have a full-service gun shop in your area? Oops… I just realized, I assumed you have a wood stock. I don't have a clue about the plastic ones.

Hank15 · March 31, 2012, 04:30 PM

Hey Pete,

I do have a wood stock. I am just weary of local gunsmiths in SoCal.

Do you have any you recommend in particular?

zippy13 · March 31, 2012, 05:42 PM

The only ones I've worked with are Joe Shiozaki (JS Air Cushion) in Azusa. Joe used to be a full service gun shop, but he specialized in stock work. I haven't seen Joe in several years and I understand there's another guy working with him. And, Mike Gregory in Ramona. I talked with him not long ago. His place is set up as an assembly line for doing the Shock Master conversions. I don't know what other work Mike does. Stock fitting is important with both of them. If Joe or Mike can't help you, they might give you some leads.

TheKlawMan · April 2, 2012, 02:49 PM

The guy working with Shiozaki is Paul. I have heard good things about him where I shoot. Besides doing stock work he teaces some skeet classes.

M4BGRINGO · April 2, 2012, 05:12 PM

Didn't read all the replys. When I saw the system you were looking at for your gun all I can tell you is there is no comparison! I have that system on my Browning O/U and can shoot that gun all day long with no problems at-all. Yes, it is a lot of money but if you want to shoot 100+ shells a day it is well worth the coin!

I have a mercury recoil reduction system in my wifes 870 plus a nice cushy recoil pad and it made her gun much more tolerable to shoot a round of 100. Still is no comparison to my Browning.

I have the same cushy recoil pad on my 1100 and the Browning is still a gentler gun to shoot.

February 12, 2012, 12:45 PM	#1
Hank15 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: California Posts: 437	Question about soft adjustable combs or rubber patches My brain is now telling me "screw off" after the 2nd or 3rd round of trap on weekends. So one of the seasoned shooters at the range recommended a rubber patch or a soft adjustable comb. I was wondering if any of you had experience with this company: http://www.shockmaster.com/order.html The price looks reasonable but I've never heard of anyone on this forum use it. Also, do any of you use rubber patches? If so, what kind? Let me know, thanks!

February 14, 2012, 11:58 PM	#12
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,016	Too firm Pressing your cheek TOO firmly to the stock can cause pain............ask me how I know. Remember eye on the rock, head on the stock. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

February 15, 2012, 09:08 AM	#13
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I agree that stock fit is paramount in the shotgun games, but there are a few little tricks to make a not-quite-right stock punish you less. One thing we used to do was to go to a shoe store and buy moleskin pads to build a stock up to the point where it fit properly. Granted, most of us were fellows who were always broke and couldn't afford a stock fitting. We could barely afford to buy shells for the Saturday shoot. We'd add moleskin, tape things to our stocks, do what it took to get the eye looking down the barrel. One thing that I did on a light rifle recently was to add one of those Allen Buttstock cartridge carriers, and built up the stock with foam pipe insulation. The rifle had too much drop in the comb, and now when I put my cheek on the stock, I can see directly through the scope. Total cost? About five bucks. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

February 12, 2012, 03:56 PM	#2
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Tell us a little more about what you're feeling in terms of pain and where... a...in your face, you shoulder, where... b. what gun are you shooting, weight if you know it, length of barrel, gague c. what shells are you shooting ....how much shot ( 1 oz, 1 1/8oz, etc and velocity of them )... I'm just trying to understand whats happening...so maybe we can come up with another, even cheaper, solution. I do not have any experience with that product.../ GraCoil is the system I have on one of my Trap guns ...and I like it / but I don't have it installed on my skeet, sporting clays of field guns...( and don't really need it on the trap gun either...but the used trap gun I bought had one installed).

February 12, 2012, 04:57 PM	#3
Couzin Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2006 Location: Terrell, Texas Posts: 240	What BigJimP said! Check all that first. Even a poor fit gun shouldn't beat you up if only a couple rounds. I also don't know if you have already settled on the stock fitting company you listed but I have had Ken Rucker (Speedbump Stockworks) put adjustable combs on a couple of my guns and was very happy with the cost, function, and fit. He does the recoil systems also - but I have no problem with recoil.

February 12, 2012, 05:40 PM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	The Shockmaster is the unit I have on my trap gun. I'd had several years experience with a JS Air Cushion conversion on my Skeet gun (it uses the same air unit) and I was quite satisfied with the system. For my new trap gun, I went with a Shockmaster over another JS for two reasons: The Shockmaster was cheaper and it offered more adjustability that the JS system, but it's not as pretty. Also, the owner of Shockmaster was a well respected member of my T & S club. An advantage of the JS Air Cushion and Shockmaster systems, not found in some others, is your face is cushioned, too. You can shoot them all day and not get your cheek and shoulder tenderized.

February 12, 2012, 08:24 PM	#6
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	I am only a sophmore shooter, while some of these guys are post doctorates with tenured professorships. I was wondering why you got a monte carlo stock? Everyone is different and what is good for one may not help another. You may wish to take a look at a book called "Stcok Fitter's Bible". Your problem may not so much be recoil but the way your gun reacts to it. Say the pitch of the butt pad is right for me, but it may not be right for you. If it is off for your fit, it may allow the barrel to rise more than it should and that could slap you with the comb. Apologies to all and the writer of that book if I got this wrong. A simple solution could be a wedge shaped shim between the stock and the recoil pad. Roland Oswald offers a temporary and very inexpensive experiment to see if you need a tapered shim, which is to insert washers on the top recoil pad screw. If I understand him, you can also experiment with a longer LOP but inserting a washet on both the uppper and lower screws.

February 13, 2012, 12:50 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Only someone that can watch you shoot in person can really fix the issue...but my hunch is, its more about "fit" than anything ...and to some extent, the shells you chose. My hunch is, the gun is recoiling into your face - and pushing the meat in your face up against the cheek bone...so it hurts. When what you ideally want is for the recoil to be back and forth just under the cheek bone ...not up against it. A soft pad on the comb might help ..but it won't cure the root cause. Shooting lighter loads will probably help - but won't cure it either. If you're shooting shells that are loaded with 7 1/2's ...then they will usually be 1 1/8oz of shot ...and 3 Dram Equivalent or higher. Look for something like "Dove and Quail Loads" or Light Target loads....with 1 oz of shot in them ...and whether they are 8's or 7 1/2's doesn't really matter...and 3 Dr Equivalent is ok ...but 2 3/4 Dr Eq would be better...and don't confuse the box markings for 2 3/4" or 3" shells with the Dram Equivalent markings...if they list velocity on the box ...look for something in 1oz at 1150 fps or 1200 fps...but no faster than 1200 fps. My hunch is ...you're "crabbing" into the gun ...dropping your head to the comb vs letting the gun come up to your face...which can make a lot of this stuff worse....but I'm just guessing, you need someone to watch you mount the gun / and stand next to you as you shoot...( you might be lifting your head, letting go of the gun with your pistol grip area hand....all kinds of things can cause this stuff )...but the root cause is almost 100% likely "Fit" ...and find some softer shooting shells. 1 oz of 8's ....or even 7/8 oz of 8's for Trap from 16 - 20 yd line is all any of us need to break Trap singles ...and 1150 fps is plenty fast enough / although when you get the gun fitting properly --- shooting 300 shells - even with 1 1/8 oz at 1225 fps or even 1250 fps ....should not cause you any pain / maybe some fatigue ...but not soreness in your face. Good luck ....at least you're asking / before you give up the sport...

February 13, 2012, 01:37 PM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You realize the Shockmaster unit is 945 and the padded comb is a 130 option? This sounds like the classic "gun doesn't fit you right" scenario - an affliction that seems to happen to most shooters as most of us do not seem to fit the "average" dimensions used by gun makers. I wouldn't even go with 1oz lo0ads, try 7/8 until you get the stock fitted - after all, International trap is a 24 gram load and their scores went UP after adopting the smaller load. Those generic wally world promo loads are typically 1-1/8 oz. Look for the blue Federal Top Gun loads there - the 1oz at 1250. They run $4.77 per box, making them cheaper than the promos. As mentioned, you need someone watching your form, and I'll bet, a stock modification -it isn't just the comb height or lack of it, but also the thickness and its shape at the top that also plays a role. Too many think LOP is the only factor - there are many more than that involved

February 13, 2012, 03:21 PM	#10
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Another option to the friction might be the installation of a Beartooth neoprene sleeve on the stock. I installed one sold by CSMC, more to prevent my salty sweat in thew summer from screwing up the wood any more than it already is, but it does provide a smidgen of padding that might help without raising your head any more than it already is http://www.csmcspecials.com/Stock_Guard_p/e0175.htm

February 13, 2012, 11:42 PM	#11
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	A shooting buddy of mine who's cheek was bleeding well before the end of a day of 4 boxes tried a couple of things on his Benelli Cordoba. He tried a higher comb (It takes 3 different rubber combs) and that didn't help. A stock wrap like the one oneounce mentioned stopped the bleeding Every day his cheed was bloody. I had watched and most of the times it recoiled straight back but on ocassion the barrel lifted up. I couldn't tell just what he was doing but the soft wrap stopped the bleedintg and allowed his cheek to heal.

February 15, 2012, 04:53 PM	#14
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	PawPaw's right about the moleskin. Many stocks have been introduced to Dr. Scholl's while their owner's were looking for a proper fit and cheek relief. The real trick would be a stick-on that lowered the stock.

February 17, 2012, 07:31 PM	#15
Hank15 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: California Posts: 437	Thanks for all the tips guys. I will have a few seasoned shooters/pros watch me in person and present your ideas to them. Hope it works out. I will keep you guys updated

February 26, 2012, 01:36 AM	#16
Hank15 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: California Posts: 437	A seasoned shooter helped me figure out the problem at the range. Looks like the length of pull is correct, especially since he corrected me to mount the gun prior to calling the bird. However, the comb is just a tad too short for my cheek to rest firmly and comfortably on it for 4 rounds of trap. He recommended: http://speedbumpbusterprices.blogspot.com/ or http://www.bosesguns.com/stockaccessories.html for the best price/quality ratio. Which of the two would you guys recommend?

February 26, 2012, 12:53 PM	#17
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Before you spend a lot money on a conversion, please know: An 870's stock can be altered a little by slightly changing the wood shoulder where it joins the receiver. You may have to tweak the bolt hole. Neither of the systems you referenced seems to do anything to isolate your cheek from the recoil or friction.

February 26, 2012, 05:20 PM	#18
Hank15 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: California Posts: 437	Thanks Pete, do you know anyone in particular that can perform the work you just described?

February 27, 2012, 02:27 PM	#19
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Back in the day, just about every local gun shop had someone who could tweak a 870/1100 stock -- it's not rocket science, but you need to know a little about working wood. Do you have a full-service gun shop in your area? Oops… I just realized, I assumed you have a wood stock. I don't have a clue about the plastic ones.

March 31, 2012, 04:30 PM	#20
Hank15 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: California Posts: 437	Hey Pete, I do have a wood stock. I am just weary of local gunsmiths in SoCal. Do you have any you recommend in particular?

March 31, 2012, 05:42 PM	#21
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	The only ones I've worked with are Joe Shiozaki (JS Air Cushion) in Azusa. Joe used to be a full service gun shop, but he specialized in stock work. I haven't seen Joe in several years and I understand there's another guy working with him. And, Mike Gregory in Ramona. I talked with him not long ago. His place is set up as an assembly line for doing the Shock Master conversions. I don't know what other work Mike does. Stock fitting is important with both of them. If Joe or Mike can't help you, they might give you some leads.

April 2, 2012, 02:49 PM	#22
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	The guy working with Shiozaki is Paul. I have heard good things about him where I shoot. Besides doing stock work he teaces some skeet classes.

April 2, 2012, 05:12 PM	#23
M4BGRINGO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 256	Didn't read all the replys. When I saw the system you were looking at for your gun all I can tell you is there is no comparison! I have that system on my Browning O/U and can shoot that gun all day long with no problems at-all. Yes, it is a lot of money but if you want to shoot 100+ shells a day it is well worth the coin! I have a mercury recoil reduction system in my wifes 870 plus a nice cushy recoil pad and it made her gun much more tolerable to shoot a round of 100. Still is no comparison to my Browning. I have the same cushy recoil pad on my 1100 and the Browning is still a gentler gun to shoot.