Hunting with HK

DAKODAKID · September 24, 2000, 06:18 PM

I was lambasted on another board for mentioning taking a White Tail this
fall with my HK MK23 .45 with a head shot on a rest.
I think this can be done without the Deer suffering.
Anyone ever hunted with an HK????
I guess I am a glutton for punishment for posting this but lets hear it!!!

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ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT
AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

bernie · September 24, 2000, 08:09 PM

I took a deer last year with a 1911A1 at 7 yards. It was back up to my muzzle loader (arkansas has a zone that allows shotguns with slugs, muzzleloaders, or handguns, leading to a unique situation of backing my muzzleloader up with a .45 acp). However, I was hunting in a thicket with 10 yards being a long shot. I don't think the 45 is out of line at short range if it's limitations as a deer sidearm are recognized by the shooter.

DAKODAKID · September 24, 2000, 08:15 PM

Hey Bernie, where was the shot placement on "Bambi"????
Was it a head shot or a shoulder shot???
I would not take a shot at anything over
50 feet max, or approx. Bow Hunting range.

------------------
ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT
AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

CD1 · September 24, 2000, 10:02 PM

Dako,
that is probably the most unethical thing you can do. you probably have a target about four inches wide any way you slice it on a deers head. Anything outside a perfect shot equals a severly wounded animal. Why would you take that chance. Have some respect for the animal. If you want a challenge shoot at paper. The challenge of hunting is the hunt, not the kill. Please dont do it.

Robert the41MagFan · September 24, 2000, 11:25 PM

Are you going to use a tactical light to hold him steady while you take your shot?

Do the sport a great service before venturing into the woods with that HK. Learn how to hunt!!!!

BTW shooting range for the average bow hunter is about 40 yards (120 feet).

____________________________________________________
I was lambasted on another board for mentioning taking a White Tail this fall with my HK MK23 .45 with a head shot on a rest.
_____________________________________________________

You are about to be lambasted, again!

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited September 25, 2000).]

Al Thompson · September 25, 2000, 06:16 AM

Don't worry about the lambasting.

The issue that bothers many of us is the head shot. If it works, it works well. But if you miss, you have an excellent chance of crippling the deer with a wound that damages the jaw, thus starving the deer to death.

If you had asked for advice on a deer load for your .45, no problem.

While the head shot can be very humane, it has the possibility of being horrendus. If you think about it, a slight miss does not anchor the deer at all.

I think handgun hunting is exactly the same as bow hunting. No shock is involved - you have to depend on precision bullet placement.

Giz

LoneStar · September 25, 2000, 01:26 PM

Two seasons ago I made my last head shot ( up until then that was how I took all my does). The shot was off by about an inch.
The deer went down at the shot, but jumped and ran at my approach. I had to make a snap shot at a deer running through mesquite, which connected well, but had much more to do with having the rifle ready, and a huge dose of luck than with any skill on my part. If that deer had cleared another 2 yards, there's no telling how far she'd have gotten.
No lambasting, just sharing a lesson I learned, almost the hard way.

As for .45 for deer, I've never taken one, but I carry a SIG P220 when I hunt, and if a close up broadside shot presents itself, we'll see what happens. I'll be using 230grn Hydro-Shoks.

Enjoy your huntin'
-L

Dead · September 25, 2000, 06:43 PM

Opps I thought the topic said "Hunting with AK". Hunting with an HK or AK... hmmmm For most hunting, on deer, where I hunt an AK, or HK rifle would be fine. Seeing how the distance wont be over 50 yards AT MOST, with most shots closer to 25 yards.

I might take an AK out this season

Most un-PC hunting I can think of... Got to use a 5 round mag, but oh well I dont need more than 1 shot anyways.

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Dead [Black Ops]

Robert the41MagFan · September 25, 2000, 08:13 PM

Dead, it's not un-PC enough if the bayonet is not attached. Got to poke them just to make sure they're dead.

There is nothing wrong with hunting deer with a 45acp cartridge. It's the "head thing" that is bothering. Head shots go along with other hunting terms like necks shot with 22 caliber, road side hunting, spot lights and poaching. Head shots are not a sure thing, resulting in a miss or injury to game more often then not. Bottom line is would you rather hit a apple size target and not take any meat home or hit a watermelon size target and have a life supply of deer jerky.

The 45 from that HK is more than capable of harvesting deer with a body shot. Providing that the shooter does his part. At 50 yards a 45 acp +P or Super has between 428 and 582 pound feet of energy. That is more than enough power to turn ANY deer into a telescope.

Been hunting for over 20 years now. Rifles, shotguns, bow and now pistols. I harvest between 2 and 5 animals every year. Never lost one with a well placed shot.

Robert

DAKODAKID · September 25, 2000, 09:04 PM

Well boys, give me a standing 8 count here!!!

I love the energy and the wisdom that goes with you're advice...

I think that a shoulder shot is more risky than a head shot.
The hunt to me is most interesting when I get
close enough to almost touch the animal./.

I have shot .45 super Triton ammo and it has a nice litte kick to it.

I failed to mention that I probably would use the P++ ammo that the MK23 can handle
but a regular .45 230 gr bullet would work.

All comments good and bad are most welcome.
All a part of the education process which ends the day I am no longer alive......

------------------
ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT
AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

bernie · September 25, 2000, 09:46 PM

Dako,
It was a shoulder (actually behind shoulder, broadside through the heart/lung) shot with Hornady 230 gr XTP's.

[This message has been edited by bernie (edited September 25, 2000).]

solo · September 26, 2000, 04:17 PM

Last year I had to finish a 6 point off with my Glock 21 45acp. I had a good hit on him with my 30-06, right in the vital area. The bullet didn't expand at all it just went through him (20yd shot, probaly not enought distance for expansion). The deer took of like a bolt of lighting and I tried to down him with a second shot from my 30-06 but failed. To make a long story short I tracked the deer down and shot him at close range with my .45acp.

When the .45 hit him he went down like a rock, just crumpled in his tracks. I was using a 185 grain speer gold dot, I got full expansion but no a complete pass through, the bullet stopped at the outer most layer of the hide (I could see the bulge and feel the bullet under the thin layer of hide). If I had used some +p ammo of 200 gain or greater I have no doubt that it would have been a complete pass through.

I feel that a .45 is a capable deer cartridge when used within its proper limitations.

RWK · October 8, 2000, 07:36 AM

Kid,

I am a real novice in this area, however, I would like to point out that at least one state (Virginia) has a law that mandates the minimum handgun muzzle energy required for deer hunting. Standard .45 ACP loads do not meet the minimum.

Intel6 · October 17, 2000, 09:16 AM

I haven't with a handgun but I have with my HK91. I have the psg1 trigger in it and a leupold in the QR mount. Lock in a 5 rd mag of good hunting loads and you are ready to go.

Art Eatman · October 17, 2000, 01:33 PM

The issue is "Clean Kill", right? That generally means "Shot Placement" as the paramount consideration.

We've gone through this before. I've made the point that a bad hit is always a possibility. I've had deer take a step between the time my brain told my finger to pull the trigger, and the time the gun actually went off. Had I been using a "minor cartridge", I might well have had a deer get away and die elsewhere...

It's unimportant whether a .45ACP "can" kill a deer, or a .223 or whatever. Certainly they can! What is important--at least to me--is that the package of the gun/cartridge, the shooter's expertise, and the deer's behavior all come together in a clean, quick kill.

Only you, as an individual, can know if you're doing it right. Ethics is how you act when nobody's looking.

Regards, Art

opusxx · October 19, 2000, 06:36 AM

i am going to have a freind who reloads pull some of the aguilla 117 gr. 45 acp slugs and hot load them into 45 super starline brass.
these rd.'s will be shot in an HK USP tactical on doe days. at 1600-1700 fps i think they will do the job but i,m not about to try a head shot.

September 24, 2000, 06:18 PM	#1
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	I was lambasted on another board for mentioning taking a White Tail this fall with my HK MK23 .45 with a head shot on a rest. I think this can be done without the Deer suffering. Anyone ever hunted with an HK???? I guess I am a glutton for punishment for posting this but lets hear it!!! ------------------ ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

September 24, 2000, 08:09 PM	#2
bernie Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2000 Posts: 145	I took a deer last year with a 1911A1 at 7 yards. It was back up to my muzzle loader (arkansas has a zone that allows shotguns with slugs, muzzleloaders, or handguns, leading to a unique situation of backing my muzzleloader up with a .45 acp). However, I was hunting in a thicket with 10 yards being a long shot. I don't think the 45 is out of line at short range if it's limitations as a deer sidearm are recognized by the shooter.

September 24, 2000, 08:15 PM	#3
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	Hey Bernie, where was the shot placement on "Bambi"???? Was it a head shot or a shoulder shot??? I would not take a shot at anything over 50 feet max, or approx. Bow Hunting range. ------------------ ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

September 24, 2000, 10:02 PM	#4
CD1 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2000 Posts: 320	Dako, that is probably the most unethical thing you can do. you probably have a target about four inches wide any way you slice it on a deers head. Anything outside a perfect shot equals a severly wounded animal. Why would you take that chance. Have some respect for the animal. If you want a challenge shoot at paper. The challenge of hunting is the hunt, not the kill. Please dont do it.

September 24, 2000, 11:25 PM	#5
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Are you going to use a tactical light to hold him steady while you take your shot? Do the sport a great service before venturing into the woods with that HK. Learn how to hunt!!!! BTW shooting range for the average bow hunter is about 40 yards (120 feet). ____________________________________________________ I was lambasted on another board for mentioning taking a White Tail this fall with my HK MK23 .45 with a head shot on a rest. _____________________________________________________ You are about to be lambasted, again! Robert [This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited September 25, 2000).]

September 25, 2000, 06:16 AM	#6
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Don't worry about the lambasting. The issue that bothers many of us is the head shot. If it works, it works well. But if you miss, you have an excellent chance of crippling the deer with a wound that damages the jaw, thus starving the deer to death. If you had asked for advice on a deer load for your .45, no problem. While the head shot can be very humane, it has the possibility of being horrendus. If you think about it, a slight miss does not anchor the deer at all. I think handgun hunting is exactly the same as bow hunting. No shock is involved - you have to depend on precision bullet placement. Giz

September 25, 2000, 01:26 PM	#7
LoneStar Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas USA Posts: 259	Two seasons ago I made my last head shot ( up until then that was how I took all my does). The shot was off by about an inch. The deer went down at the shot, but jumped and ran at my approach. I had to make a snap shot at a deer running through mesquite, which connected well, but had much more to do with having the rifle ready, and a huge dose of luck than with any skill on my part. If that deer had cleared another 2 yards, there's no telling how far she'd have gotten. No lambasting, just sharing a lesson I learned, almost the hard way. As for .45 for deer, I've never taken one, but I carry a SIG P220 when I hunt, and if a close up broadside shot presents itself, we'll see what happens. I'll be using 230grn Hydro-Shoks. Enjoy your huntin' -L

September 25, 2000, 06:43 PM	#8
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	Opps I thought the topic said "Hunting with AK". Hunting with an HK or AK... hmmmm For most hunting, on deer, where I hunt an AK, or HK rifle would be fine. Seeing how the distance wont be over 50 yards AT MOST, with most shots closer to 25 yards. I might take an AK out this season Most un-PC hunting I can think of... Got to use a 5 round mag, but oh well I dont need more than 1 shot anyways. ------------------ Dead [Black Ops]

September 25, 2000, 08:13 PM	#9
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Dead, it's not un-PC enough if the bayonet is not attached. Got to poke them just to make sure they're dead. There is nothing wrong with hunting deer with a 45acp cartridge. It's the "head thing" that is bothering. Head shots go along with other hunting terms like necks shot with 22 caliber, road side hunting, spot lights and poaching. Head shots are not a sure thing, resulting in a miss or injury to game more often then not. Bottom line is would you rather hit a apple size target and not take any meat home or hit a watermelon size target and have a life supply of deer jerky. The 45 from that HK is more than capable of harvesting deer with a body shot. Providing that the shooter does his part. At 50 yards a 45 acp +P or Super has between 428 and 582 pound feet of energy. That is more than enough power to turn ANY deer into a telescope. Been hunting for over 20 years now. Rifles, shotguns, bow and now pistols. I harvest between 2 and 5 animals every year. Never lost one with a well placed shot. Robert

September 25, 2000, 09:04 PM	#10
DAKODAKID Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2000 Posts: 436	Well boys, give me a standing 8 count here!!! I love the energy and the wisdom that goes with you're advice... I think that a shoulder shot is more risky than a head shot. The hunt to me is most interesting when I get close enough to almost touch the animal./. I have shot .45 super Triton ammo and it has a nice litte kick to it. I failed to mention that I probably would use the P++ ammo that the MK23 can handle but a regular .45 230 gr bullet would work. All comments good and bad are most welcome. All a part of the education process which ends the day I am no longer alive...... ------------------ ACCOUNT FOR EVERY SHOT AND MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT

September 25, 2000, 09:46 PM	#11
bernie Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2000 Posts: 145	Dako, It was a shoulder (actually behind shoulder, broadside through the heart/lung) shot with Hornady 230 gr XTP's. [This message has been edited by bernie (edited September 25, 2000).]

September 26, 2000, 04:17 PM	#12
solo Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 1999 Posts: 211	Last year I had to finish a 6 point off with my Glock 21 45acp. I had a good hit on him with my 30-06, right in the vital area. The bullet didn't expand at all it just went through him (20yd shot, probaly not enought distance for expansion). The deer took of like a bolt of lighting and I tried to down him with a second shot from my 30-06 but failed. To make a long story short I tracked the deer down and shot him at close range with my .45acp. When the .45 hit him he went down like a rock, just crumpled in his tracks. I was using a 185 grain speer gold dot, I got full expansion but no a complete pass through, the bullet stopped at the outer most layer of the hide (I could see the bulge and feel the bullet under the thin layer of hide). If I had used some +p ammo of 200 gain or greater I have no doubt that it would have been a complete pass through. I feel that a .45 is a capable deer cartridge when used within its proper limitations.

October 8, 2000, 07:36 AM	#13
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,777	Kid, I am a real novice in this area, however, I would like to point out that at least one state (Virginia) has a law that mandates the minimum handgun muzzle energy required for deer hunting. Standard .45 ACP loads do not meet the minimum.

October 17, 2000, 09:16 AM	#14
Intel6 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2000 Posts: 425	I haven't with a handgun but I have with my HK91. I have the psg1 trigger in it and a leupold in the QR mount. Lock in a 5 rd mag of good hunting loads and you are ready to go.

October 17, 2000, 01:33 PM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	The issue is "Clean Kill", right? That generally means "Shot Placement" as the paramount consideration. We've gone through this before. I've made the point that a bad hit is always a possibility. I've had deer take a step between the time my brain told my finger to pull the trigger, and the time the gun actually went off. Had I been using a "minor cartridge", I might well have had a deer get away and die elsewhere... It's unimportant whether a .45ACP "can" kill a deer, or a .223 or whatever. Certainly they can! What is important--at least to me--is that the package of the gun/cartridge, the shooter's expertise, and the deer's behavior all come together in a clean, quick kill. Only you, as an individual, can know if you're doing it right. Ethics is how you act when nobody's looking. Regards, Art

October 19, 2000, 06:36 AM	#16
opusxx Junior member Join Date: January 10, 2000 Posts: 69	i am going to have a freind who reloads pull some of the aguilla 117 gr. 45 acp slugs and hot load them into 45 super starline brass. these rd.'s will be shot in an HK USP tactical on doe days. at 1600-1700 fps i think they will do the job but i,m not about to try a head shot.