Kaboomed an AR yesterday!! - Page 3

brasscollector · January 9, 2017, 04:40 PM

First, I'm glad that you weren't injured. No sense in buying any lotto tickets for a while, if you had any luck you used it up.

Quote:

that cartridge released nearly 130,000 psi

Too bad you didn't get that one across the chronograph..

Reloadron · January 9, 2017, 05:26 PM

Before all else glad you walked away from this. That is the most important part and the fact that you can share this mistake with others who may learn from it.

Quote:

I was reloading cartridges for my 25 x 45 sharps and using a mild load of 21.7 grs of RL #7 for 87 gr hornady soft point. This develops pressure of around 48,000 psi--well under the max SAAMI rating of 60,000 psi. I like reloader powders and have 8 lb'rs of quite a few of them. Trouble is, I also have an 8 lb'r of Accurate #7--and as impossible/stupid as it may seem--I grabbed the first big jug I saw with a big seven on it.

Complacency or whatever reloading is just one of those things which requires our full attention. Thanks for sharing this unfortunate mishap and again glad you are here to talk about it.

Ron

stagpanther · January 9, 2017, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Too bad you didn't get that one across the chronograph..

It did hit the target--but interestingly was about 7" low--my guess is the bullet itself was not the "beneficiary" of the extra power.

I may frame the target and call it the $600 shot. Beats a $10,000 or more hospital bill though.

FrankenMauser · January 9, 2017, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Too bad you didn't get that one across the chronograph.

stagpanther's low impact is interesting.

And, though it didn't go across a chronograph either, I was a witness to cornbush's .223 Rem Ruger Hawkeye kaboom in 2011.
I was watching the target, and the bullet from the catastrophic failure impacted the backstop with notably more authority.
That instance, however, involved a cartridge that Hodgdon estimated in their written report to have produced only 75k-90k psi.

James K · January 9, 2017, 10:25 PM

There is no shame in making a mistake, especially when the powder manufacturer uses similar names and can markings for different powders.

The shame goes to the guy who demands some esoteric explanation, insisting that HE, being perfect, could not possibly make a mistake.

Jim

TnTnTn · January 10, 2017, 09:36 AM

Thanks for info; maybe that will help some of us to be doubly or triply cautious. Really glad that you were not injured. Are you interested in selling the dies?

stagpanther · January 10, 2017, 10:24 AM

I would sell the dies--but beware they are the early redding dies that Sharps themselves eventually dropped--they feature collet-grip decapping pins and mine always seem to pop out and get stuck in the case about every other 20 resizes or so. No biggie--but irritating nonetheless.

5whiskey · January 10, 2017, 11:57 AM

Thank you for posting this. No one here should pile on with a lecture, as you obviously found the issue, realized it was your mistake, and you have plans to prevent it going forward.

I've not blown a gun, but I have pumped out a squib round. Also charged cases without primers

... and some other stuff. So we are all human. I try to learn from my mistakes and develop controls that help me prevent from making them again. I also try to do the same when another reloader posts a mistake he made. So, because you posted this, I plan to evaluate how I handle powder to ensure that I will never make this mistake. You are helping the community by your honesty, and I appreciate it.

johnwilliamson062 · January 10, 2017, 01:34 PM

Quote:

When I pulled that trigger on the AR that cartridge released nearly 130,000 psi

That must have been an experience. How's your hearing?

dgludwig · January 10, 2017, 02:31 PM

What?

stagpanther · January 10, 2017, 03:09 PM

Quote:

That must have been an experience. How's your hearing?

I had already achieved "waterfall" status tinnitus long prior to that shot--and it certainly hasn't gotten any better as a result.

Guv · January 10, 2017, 04:07 PM

Lower impact may mean the bullet exited the barrel before the recoil impulse effected it. Kind of like a 125gr 357mag hitting lower on the target than a 158.
How much less barrel time did it have, screaming out of there.

fourbore · January 10, 2017, 05:58 PM

I would imagine the velocity was significantly below normal because all the pressure was dumped when the case blew. That could explain the lower point of impact.

Super Sneaky Steve · January 12, 2017, 08:31 PM

I think it's time to pick one "7" powder to stock in your cabinet.

stagpanther · January 13, 2017, 01:22 AM

Quote:

I think it's time to pick one "7" powder to stock in your cabinet.

That makes a lot of sense--but AA #7 is one heck of a versatile pistol powder--as is RL #7 in certain AR cartridge loads.

Here is a screen shot of a very simple spreadsheet check list I now run on a computer next to my load station. Each check must be confirmed before moving on to the next stage or load weight. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to slow the process down for me.

Oldbrowngun · January 13, 2017, 03:02 AM

I never let people hold my AR by the mag for this exact reason. When they fail they usually blow strait out the mag.

AzShooter · January 13, 2017, 03:20 AM

I had a Model 929 blow up on me recently. After thinking I could not have made a mistake with my reloader, I've reloaded thousands of rounds with no problems, I eliminated all my errors and concluded I had a double charge in my 9mm case.

It blew up 4 of the chambers and stuck the gun so nothing would rotate. That week I sold the press to a friend and explained to him what happened and that he needed to pay attention to what he was doing and not have the radio or t.v. on while loading and to not have any interferences while loading.

Next trip to the range and I hear that familiar sound. He blew up his new Ruger with a double charge. He still doesn't admit he did something wrong. At least he didn't send the gun back to the mothership so they could tell him it must have been his reload. He had switched powders and didn't realize what he had done.

I've since bought a Dillon 650 which automatically advances the case. No more chance of a double.

Things happen. All you can do is be happy neither you or anyone else got hurt and learn from your mistake.

Robk · January 13, 2017, 12:17 PM

A while back, I also kabooned a pistol. Early 90's SIG P220. Hell of a loss. But no one was seriously hurt at least. I also changed my entire reloading system due to what I suspect was a double charge. Once the powder is in the case, I remove it to a separate station and weight each charge individually. May be excessive of me, but I refuse to have this happen again. And until I am able to upgrade my equipment for better (Lee 1000 for now), it will stay that way.

ranger56528 · January 14, 2017, 10:52 PM

Glad your ok. I've ready many stories about this happening to folks so your not the 1st nor will you be the last,it's just a good reminder to double and triple check the powder we grab while at the loading bench.

This might sound or weird to some but I have rubber maid containers about the size of a loaf of bread that hold 1 pound of powder,box of primers,box of bullets,load info and the dies of the caliper I'm reloading and even cleaned brass,I have 10 of these set up and marked with caliber for my basic loads so if I'm doing 308 I grab the 308 container and everything is in there and nothing else is on the bench,if I want to change powder or bullets I need to physically Get up and go to where my other powders and bullets are, I find this the best way to not use wrong powders in any of my Hand loads. It works for me and keeps the loading area clean well ok somewhat clean.

U.S.SFC_RET · January 16, 2017, 04:07 AM

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident and thank you for sharing.
You mentioned a preflight checklist.
When I am reloading I write a note of which powder I am using and tape that note right onto the powder dispenser/thrower. I pick up the powder canister and make double sure that it matches the type of powder written on the note.

1. Decide the load that I am reloading for.
2. Post a note onto the powder dispenser/thrower as to the exact type of powder, i.e. Titegroup.
3. Pull out the powder that I am going to use and load up the powder dispenser/thrower.
4. Leave the note on the powder dispenser/thrower until I am done reloading and any unused powder goes back into the original container where it came from.
This way I remove any and all possibilities of mistaking any other powder for another.

stagpanther · January 16, 2017, 07:03 AM

Sounds good. I learned from my aviation days that it's also very important not to interrupt the preflight and start over if that does happen. I also physically confirm each check by writing "yes" into the spreadsheet.

I also learned (the hard way) that every now and then a "one chance in a million" kind of thing crops up that is not captured by a preflight list, so there is always a lurking danger of complacency creeping up when being over-reliant on a list--but it is certainly better than not having one. And I have to be honest, since I'm entering the hallowed halls of seniordom the frequency of "absent mindedness" goes up and I need to be more vigilant than the average young buck.

P Flados · January 16, 2017, 09:02 PM

I have questioned the content of some of my loads in the past

I have developed a routine to help avoid questions and overall minimize the risk of a surprise

I have semi-intentionally ended up with all of my primay use powders being very different in appearance. Promo (flake), Titegroup (small granule pistol powder), H110 (fine grain black ball powder) and 4227 (small granule extruded).

However, the best assurance of confidence comes from how I set up to load a batch. I normally only load in 1/2 turn increments on my measure. I have a cheat sheet to tell me where to set it to get a specific charge. I dial in what I want, set my old fasion balance scale to this same number, and then drop a load and check it. To get a match, this means I read the cheat sheet right, set the measure right, set the scale right and for most applications it will tell me that I have the right powder.

A Kaboom or an unidentified stuck bullet are just too dangerous (to me, my guns or anyone nearby) to not figure out an effective "error prevention" routine.

January 10, 2017, 10:24 AM	#57
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I would sell the dies--but beware they are the early redding dies that Sharps themselves eventually dropped--they feature collet-grip decapping pins and mine always seem to pop out and get stuck in the case about every other 20 resizes or so. No biggie--but irritating nonetheless. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

January 10, 2017, 02:31 PM	#60
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	What? __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

January 10, 2017, 04:07 PM	#62
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	Lower impact may mean the bullet exited the barrel before the recoil impulse effected it. Kind of like a 125gr 357mag hitting lower on the target than a 158. How much less barrel time did it have, screaming out of there. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

January 14, 2017, 10:52 PM	#69
ranger56528 Member Join Date: May 22, 2014 Posts: 88	Glad your ok. I've ready many stories about this happening to folks so your not the 1st nor will you be the last,it's just a good reminder to double and triple check the powder we grab while at the loading bench. This might sound or weird to some but I have rubber maid containers about the size of a loaf of bread that hold 1 pound of powder,box of primers,box of bullets,load info and the dies of the caliper I'm reloading and even cleaned brass,I have 10 of these set up and marked with caliber for my basic loads so if I'm doing 308 I grab the 308 container and everything is in there and nothing else is on the bench,if I want to change powder or bullets I need to physically Get up and go to where my other powders and bullets are, I find this the best way to not use wrong powders in any of my Hand loads. It works for me and keeps the loading area clean well ok somewhat clean. __________________ Sentences and paragraphs with punctuations are over rated as long as you get your point or view across.

January 16, 2017, 04:07 AM	#70
U.S.SFC_RET Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2005 Location: The Old line State Posts: 282	Sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident and thank you for sharing. You mentioned a preflight checklist. When I am reloading I write a note of which powder I am using and tape that note right onto the powder dispenser/thrower. I pick up the powder canister and make double sure that it matches the type of powder written on the note. 1. Decide the load that I am reloading for. 2. Post a note onto the powder dispenser/thrower as to the exact type of powder, i.e. Titegroup. 3. Pull out the powder that I am going to use and load up the powder dispenser/thrower. 4. Leave the note on the powder dispenser/thrower until I am done reloading and any unused powder goes back into the original container where it came from. This way I remove any and all possibilities of mistaking any other powder for another. __________________ 1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded. 2. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot. 3. Keep the finger off the trigger and firearm on safe until ready to shoot. 4. Know the target and what's beyond it.

January 9, 2017, 10:25 PM	#55
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is no shame in making a mistake, especially when the powder manufacturer uses similar names and can markings for different powders. The shame goes to the guy who demands some esoteric explanation, insisting that HE, being perfect, could not possibly make a mistake. Jim

January 10, 2017, 09:36 AM	#56
TnTnTn Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2013 Location: Middle TN Posts: 140	Thanks for info; maybe that will help some of us to be doubly or triply cautious. Really glad that you were not injured. Are you interested in selling the dies?

January 10, 2017, 11:57 AM	#58
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	Thank you for posting this. No one here should pile on with a lecture, as you obviously found the issue, realized it was your mistake, and you have plans to prevent it going forward. I've not blown a gun, but I have pumped out a squib round. Also charged cases without primers ... and some other stuff. So we are all human. I try to learn from my mistakes and develop controls that help me prevent from making them again. I also try to do the same when another reloader posts a mistake he made. So, because you posted this, I plan to evaluate how I handle powder to ensure that I will never make this mistake. You are helping the community by your honesty, and I appreciate it.

January 10, 2017, 05:58 PM	#63
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I would imagine the velocity was significantly below normal because all the pressure was dumped when the case blew. That could explain the lower point of impact.

January 12, 2017, 08:31 PM	#64
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,250	I think it's time to pick one "7" powder to stock in your cabinet.

January 13, 2017, 03:02 AM	#66
Oldbrowngun Member Join Date: January 12, 2017 Posts: 16	I never let people hold my AR by the mag for this exact reason. When they fail they usually blow strait out the mag.

January 13, 2017, 03:20 AM	#67
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	I had a Model 929 blow up on me recently. After thinking I could not have made a mistake with my reloader, I've reloaded thousands of rounds with no problems, I eliminated all my errors and concluded I had a double charge in my 9mm case. It blew up 4 of the chambers and stuck the gun so nothing would rotate. That week I sold the press to a friend and explained to him what happened and that he needed to pay attention to what he was doing and not have the radio or t.v. on while loading and to not have any interferences while loading. Next trip to the range and I hear that familiar sound. He blew up his new Ruger with a double charge. He still doesn't admit he did something wrong. At least he didn't send the gun back to the mothership so they could tell him it must have been his reload. He had switched powders and didn't realize what he had done. I've since bought a Dillon 650 which automatically advances the case. No more chance of a double. Things happen. All you can do is be happy neither you or anyone else got hurt and learn from your mistake.

January 13, 2017, 12:17 PM	#68
Robk Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 324	A while back, I also kabooned a pistol. Early 90's SIG P220. Hell of a loss. But no one was seriously hurt at least. I also changed my entire reloading system due to what I suspect was a double charge. Once the powder is in the case, I remove it to a separate station and weight each charge individually. May be excessive of me, but I refuse to have this happen again. And until I am able to upgrade my equipment for better (Lee 1000 for now), it will stay that way.

January 16, 2017, 07:03 AM	#71
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Sounds good. I learned from my aviation days that it's also very important not to interrupt the preflight and start over if that does happen. I also physically confirm each check by writing "yes" into the spreadsheet. I also learned (the hard way) that every now and then a "one chance in a million" kind of thing crops up that is not captured by a preflight list, so there is always a lurking danger of complacency creeping up when being over-reliant on a list--but it is certainly better than not having one. And I have to be honest, since I'm entering the hallowed halls of seniordom the frequency of "absent mindedness" goes up and I need to be more vigilant than the average young buck. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

January 16, 2017, 09:02 PM	#72
P Flados Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2017 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 243	I have questioned the content of some of my loads in the past I have developed a routine to help avoid questions and overall minimize the risk of a surprise I have semi-intentionally ended up with all of my primay use powders being very different in appearance. Promo (flake), Titegroup (small granule pistol powder), H110 (fine grain black ball powder) and 4227 (small granule extruded). However, the best assurance of confidence comes from how I set up to load a batch. I normally only load in 1/2 turn increments on my measure. I have a cheat sheet to tell me where to set it to get a specific charge. I dial in what I want, set my old fasion balance scale to this same number, and then drop a load and check it. To get a match, this means I read the cheat sheet right, set the measure right, set the scale right and for most applications it will tell me that I have the right powder. A Kaboom or an unidentified stuck bullet are just too dangerous (to me, my guns or anyone nearby) to not figure out an effective "error prevention" routine.