%#*^ CCI primers!

Blue Duck357 · November 27, 2002, 06:30 PM

OK more mad at myself than anything else, my fault but it felt good to say it

Ran out of Federal and Winchester primers and every store I went to only had CCI. Had time off, bad weather, lots of brass and bullets. I know make up a small batch to try first but I didn't

Now I've got over 400 loaded rounds of 357 Magnum ammo with 5.5 grains of 231 and 158 grain laser cast bullets. Problem is they all have CCI primers which I just found out means I get 1/6 misfires with my stock 65 and 1/2 misfires with my "tuned" model 19.

Called Dillon to find out what I did wrong they said two things: First I bought CCI primers and second made up to big a batch without testing. Well at least they were honest, Don't you hate it when a plan falls apart

jjmorgan64 · November 27, 2002, 07:01 PM

I load all my budies ammo for his semi's with cci's,
all my revolvers get WLPs or Federal Small pistol,
same reason too many FTFs

Sisco · November 27, 2002, 07:16 PM

I got FTFs using CCI after changing springs in my GP100, always blamed it on the springs. No problems after switching to Win.

jimb124 · November 27, 2002, 07:46 PM

I must be doing something wrong! I load 38 spl, 357 mag, 9MM, 45ACP, and 44 mag and have not had a FTF in all the time I've been reloading. I also use them in my 257 Robts, 308 and 30-06...

Jim Brown

uglymofo · November 27, 2002, 09:21 PM

Dunno about pistol, but their rifle primers are on the recommended list for M1A's because they're harder than some of the other OEM's and resist slamfiring a little better.

Cheapo · November 27, 2002, 10:04 PM

Betcha your extreme spreads with those Win and Fed-primed loads are well above 60 fps, maybe even around 100 fps.

Tighten up your hammer spring properly and see what happens. Your CCIs will also go 100% then.

I sure hope your "tuned" gun isn't ever called upon for self-defense.

HSMITH · November 27, 2002, 10:32 PM

If you leave the springs alone CCI work fine in my experience. Kitchen table gunsmithing has caused me problems with CCI primers, but once I put back or replaced what I had "fixed" all was fine again.

Blue Duck357 · November 27, 2002, 10:45 PM

As noted in the first post my 65 is stock. Last checkup during qulification it showed 8#'s of hammer fall which is twice the required spec so there should not be a problem there.

I'm wondering how much of a bad combination Dillon/CCI is as I've never had a problem with Winchester or Federal primers in either gun with the same loading outfit, yet some say they are doing ok with CCI, others (such as myself) are not having very good luck. The Dillon tech I talked to was not at all surprised at the problem but actually only seemed a bit confused as to why they were even feeding very well in the machien as he said a lot were out of spec both height and round wise. Maybe other machiens handle those variables better???

Archie · November 27, 2002, 11:18 PM

I don't have a misfire problem with CCI. However, my Dillon XL 650 will not reliably seat Federals. The small primers get cocked and crushed about 6 to 10 percent.

I use Winchester primers almost exclusively and they feed like grease through a goose. And no primer failures that I can't trace to high seating or some such operator error.

Oh... the Federals do work better in a friend's tuned PPC revolver. My PPC revolver bangs out the WW's regularly.

**Mal H** · November 27, 2002, 11:28 PM

FWIW, I loaded some .38 Spcl using a hand primer (RCBS) and CCI primers the other day. I noticed that it took a lot more pressure to prime with the CCI than with the Win primers I almost always use (I needed CCI 550 primers for a particular experiment). This tells me the CCI's are ever-so-slightly larger in diameter than other primers. The CCI's also showed a slight indentation where the priming rod pressed hard against them. So it may be that your concern about Dillon/CCI being a bad combo might be true. The Dillon primer may not be able to exert enough force to fully seat the CCI primers.

Can you determine that the primers are fully seated in the pockets? They should, of course, be below the base of the shell by a few thousandths.

Are you getting as deep an indentation in a primer that failed as with a primer that worked? (A shallower dent usually means that some of the hammer force was expended in seating the primer further in the pocket.)

Does a second hammer hit usually fire a round that failed the first time?

trapguy · November 27, 2002, 11:32 PM

I have loaded cci 500's in my new dillon sdb for 3 weeks now and not the first problem.

stans · November 28, 2002, 09:50 AM

Make sure the primers are fully seated. CCI primers have harder cups than most other primers (except for military primers) and a highly tuned revolver with a light double action trigger may not ignite CCI primers.

Southla1 · November 28, 2002, 10:02 AM

I started using CCI primers so long ago I cant remember when............the 60's I am sure. Never had a problem with them then or now. If they are avaliable they are and will be my first choice.

labgrade · November 28, 2002, 11:18 AM

Yup, me too. CCIs since mid-'60s. Think we used RWS primers for a .243 load & have used Win's SP when I couldn't get CCI.

CCIs through my 550 = no worries.

Only problem I've ever had with CCI was in a Python & double action. Traded that for a gun that shoots whatever I put in it. I'm a simple man that way.

Blue Duck357 · November 28, 2002, 12:01 PM

From reading around a bit it does appear to be a seating issue. Primers are below the base (rounds sit even on glass plate, no wobble) but affraid I don't know how to measure how far in the pocket they are. From feel it does seem they are not quite as deep as the Winchester or Federal rounds I've made. Sometimes they will fire on second attempt sometimes not (even with the stock gun).

But I guess the $20 question is why do Federal, Winchester and Remington primers seat perfectly with everything adjusted as is while CCI's don't???

**Mal H** · November 28, 2002, 03:01 PM

If you have a dial caliper, you can check the seating depth by using the depth checking end of it. Set the end base tightly against the case head and dial out the stick until it just touches the primer. Check several cartridges and see if you find a variance of several thousandths in some of them.

MADISON · November 28, 2002, 03:40 PM

I have not used CCI Primers since the 70's. I was getting about a 40% misfire ratio. I have been using Winchester ever since.

40ozflatfoot · November 28, 2002, 09:01 PM

I prefer Winchester over all the others, but I'll even take Federal over CCI. I won't use CCI if there's a choice. They seem to bed a bit larger in diameter than the Winchesters; sometimes they hang up on the primer hold, and the side gets crunched...throw-away. Sometimes the anvil just drops off. I can usually count on at least one FTF per 50 rounds with the CCI. I never have to do that with the Winchesters.

I'm using the same RCBS Rock Chucker Combo I bought in the '70s, and it still keeps goin' like a freight train.

WESHOOT2 · November 29, 2002, 12:18 PM

The cartridge becomes one when the primer successfully ignites powder.

CCI
R-P
W-W
Federal

Hardest to softest.

Fact = CCI primers can fail in tuned wheels.
So use Federal.

As for press woes, like always, each machine is its own distinct entity, and some will work fine, while others will drive one nuts.

Good thing there's four brands

WESHOOT2 · November 29, 2002, 12:24 PM

Which is most accurate?
Which offers lowest deviations?
Which can I trust my life to?

(Some of you may ask these next two.)
Which is cheapest?
Which can I find?

Go ahead, ask me which brand I use most often.

larryw · November 29, 2002, 04:01 PM

OK, the suspense is killing me...what primers does WESHOOT2 use?

WESHOOT2 · November 29, 2002, 07:25 PM

CCI most often.
I use R-P, Federal, and W-W too.

I get misfires in some of my wheels with CCI.

Feel better?

larryw · November 29, 2002, 11:14 PM

Phew, just in the nick of time...feel much better now, thanks!

clown714 · November 30, 2002, 09:42 AM

i refuse to use CCI primers

i use WW or federal only.
JMNSHO

clown

Chemistry · November 30, 2002, 11:32 AM

I have used Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI, and Fiocchi (leadless) primers for years now.

I have had one bad batch of CCI small pistol primers, where my trusty Glock 17 would not detonate them on the first shot. I thought that maybe my striker pin spring was starting to go bad, so I switched to friend's Beretta M92, which has detonated everything, even the ultra-hard primers in GECO Safe Action Slugs (BAT) that make CCI's hardness pale in comparison. I still had failures to detonate on the first trigger pull although the second trigger pull did the trick (yes, I always checked the barrel to make sure that it wasn't a squib load).

I think I bought those primers sometime early in 2001, at a gun show in West Springfield, MA. Since then, I've gone through another 2000 CCI small pistol primers, and haven't had any problems, but for a brief moment in time, I was about to give up on CCI primers.

November 27, 2002, 06:30 PM	#1
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	*%#^ CCI primers!** OK more mad at myself than anything else, my fault but it felt good to say it Ran out of Federal and Winchester primers and every store I went to only had CCI. Had time off, bad weather, lots of brass and bullets. I know make up a small batch to try first but I didn't Now I've got over 400 loaded rounds of 357 Magnum ammo with 5.5 grains of 231 and 158 grain laser cast bullets. Problem is they all have CCI primers which I just found out means I get 1/6 misfires with my stock 65 and 1/2 misfires with my "tuned" model 19. Called Dillon to find out what I did wrong they said two things: First I bought CCI primers and second made up to big a batch without testing. Well at least they were honest, Don't you hate it when a plan falls apart

November 27, 2002, 07:01 PM	#2
jjmorgan64 Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2001 Posts: 519	I load all my budies ammo for his semi's with cci's, all my revolvers get WLPs or Federal Small pistol, same reason too many FTFs __________________ The Forty-Four spoke and it sent lead and smoke And seventeen inches of flame. -Marty Robbins JM

November 27, 2002, 07:16 PM	#3
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	I got FTFs using CCI after changing springs in my GP100, always blamed it on the springs. No problems after switching to Win. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

November 27, 2002, 07:46 PM	#4
jimb124 Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2002 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4	CCI primers... I must be doing something wrong! I load 38 spl, 357 mag, 9MM, 45ACP, and 44 mag and have not had a FTF in all the time I've been reloading. I also use them in my 257 Robts, 308 and 30-06... Jim Brown

November 27, 2002, 10:04 PM	#6
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Betcha your extreme spreads with those Win and Fed-primed loads are well above 60 fps, maybe even around 100 fps. Tighten up your hammer spring properly and see what happens. Your CCIs will also go 100% then. I sure hope your "tuned" gun isn't ever called upon for self-defense. __________________ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

November 27, 2002, 09:21 PM	#5
uglymofo Member Join Date: August 1, 2001 Posts: 72	Dunno about pistol, but their rifle primers are on the recommended list for M1A's because they're harder than some of the other OEM's and resist slamfiring a little better.

November 27, 2002, 10:32 PM	#7
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	If you leave the springs alone CCI work fine in my experience. Kitchen table gunsmithing has caused me problems with CCI primers, but once I put back or replaced what I had "fixed" all was fine again.

November 27, 2002, 10:45 PM	#8
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	As noted in the first post my 65 is stock. Last checkup during qulification it showed 8#'s of hammer fall which is twice the required spec so there should not be a problem there. I'm wondering how much of a bad combination Dillon/CCI is as I've never had a problem with Winchester or Federal primers in either gun with the same loading outfit, yet some say they are doing ok with CCI, others (such as myself) are not having very good luck. The Dillon tech I talked to was not at all surprised at the problem but actually only seemed a bit confused as to why they were even feeding very well in the machien as he said a lot were out of spec both height and round wise. Maybe other machiens handle those variables better???

November 27, 2002, 11:18 PM	#9
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Hmmmmm. I don't have a misfire problem with CCI. However, my Dillon XL 650 will not reliably seat Federals. The small primers get cocked and crushed about 6 to 10 percent. I use Winchester primers almost exclusively and they feed like grease through a goose. And no primer failures that I can't trace to high seating or some such operator error. Oh... the Federals do work better in a friend's tuned PPC revolver. My PPC revolver bangs out the WW's regularly. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

November 27, 2002, 11:28 PM	#10
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	FWIW, I loaded some .38 Spcl using a hand primer (RCBS) and CCI primers the other day. I noticed that it took a lot more pressure to prime with the CCI than with the Win primers I almost always use (I needed CCI 550 primers for a particular experiment). This tells me the CCI's are ever-so-slightly larger in diameter than other primers. The CCI's also showed a slight indentation where the priming rod pressed hard against them. So it may be that your concern about Dillon/CCI being a bad combo might be true. The Dillon primer may not be able to exert enough force to fully seat the CCI primers. Can you determine that the primers are fully seated in the pockets? They should, of course, be below the base of the shell by a few thousandths. Are you getting as deep an indentation in a primer that failed as with a primer that worked? (A shallower dent usually means that some of the hammer force was expended in seating the primer further in the pocket.) Does a second hammer hit usually fire a round that failed the first time?

November 27, 2002, 11:32 PM	#11
trapguy Junior Member Join Date: September 26, 2002 Location: ohio Posts: 13	I have loaded cci 500's in my new dillon sdb for 3 weeks now and not the first problem.

November 28, 2002, 09:50 AM	#12
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Make sure the primers are fully seated. CCI primers have harder cups than most other primers (except for military primers) and a highly tuned revolver with a light double action trigger may not ignite CCI primers.

November 28, 2002, 10:02 AM	#13
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I started using CCI primers so long ago I cant remember when............the 60's I am sure. Never had a problem with them then or now. If they are avaliable they are and will be my first choice.

November 28, 2002, 11:18 AM	#14
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Yup, me too. CCIs since mid-'60s. Think we used RWS primers for a .243 load & have used Win's SP when I couldn't get CCI. CCIs through my 550 = no worries. Only problem I've ever had with CCI was in a Python & double action. Traded that for a gun that shoots whatever I put in it. I'm a simple man that way.

November 28, 2002, 12:01 PM	#15
Blue Duck357 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2000 Posts: 1,460	From reading around a bit it does appear to be a seating issue. Primers are below the base (rounds sit even on glass plate, no wobble) but affraid I don't know how to measure how far in the pocket they are. From feel it does seem they are not quite as deep as the Winchester or Federal rounds I've made. Sometimes they will fire on second attempt sometimes not (even with the stock gun). But I guess the $20 question is why do Federal, Winchester and Remington primers seat perfectly with everything adjusted as is while CCI's don't???

November 28, 2002, 03:01 PM	#16
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	If you have a dial caliper, you can check the seating depth by using the depth checking end of it. Set the end base tightly against the case head and dial out the stick until it just touches the primer. Check several cartridges and see if you find a variance of several thousandths in some of them.

November 28, 2002, 03:40 PM	#17
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	CCI primers I have not used CCI Primers since the 70's. I was getting about a 40% misfire ratio. I have been using Winchester ever since.

November 28, 2002, 09:01 PM	#18
40ozflatfoot Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: SD Posts: 462	I prefer Winchester over all the others, but I'll even take Federal over CCI. I won't use CCI if there's a choice. They seem to bed a bit larger in diameter than the Winchesters; sometimes they hang up on the primer hold, and the side gets crunched...throw-away. Sometimes the anvil just drops off. I can usually count on at least one FTF per 50 rounds with the CCI. I never have to do that with the Winchesters. I'm using the same RCBS Rock Chucker Combo I bought in the '70s, and it still keeps goin' like a freight train. __________________ There are five boxes to freedom: soap, ballot, witness, jury, cartridge. TFL Alumnus.

November 29, 2002, 12:18 PM	#19
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	PRIME REAL ESTATE The cartridge becomes one when the primer successfully ignites powder. CCI R-P W-W Federal Hardest to softest. Fact = CCI primers can fail in tuned wheels. So use Federal. As for press woes, like always, each machine is its own distinct entity, and some will work fine, while others will drive one nuts. Good thing there's four brands __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 29, 2002, 12:24 PM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	OTHER QUESTIONS Which is most accurate? Which offers lowest deviations? Which can I trust my life to? (Some of you may ask these next two.) Which is cheapest? Which can I find? Go ahead, ask me which brand I use most often. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 29, 2002, 04:01 PM	#21
larryw Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Posts: 336	OK, the suspense is killing me...what primers does WESHOOT2 use?

November 29, 2002, 07:25 PM	#22
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	OUTOFROUNDBOY CCI most often. I use R-P, Federal, and W-W too. I get misfires in some of my wheels with CCI. Feel better? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 29, 2002, 11:14 PM	#23
larryw Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Posts: 336	Phew, just in the nick of time...feel much better now, thanks!

November 30, 2002, 09:42 AM	#24
clown714 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2001 Location: ga Posts: 395	i refuse to use CCI primers i use WW or federal only. JMNSHO clown

November 30, 2002, 11:32 AM	#25
Chemistry Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Location: Central Alabama Posts: 158	I have used Winchester, Remington, Federal, CCI, and Fiocchi (leadless) primers for years now. I have had one bad batch of CCI small pistol primers, where my trusty Glock 17 would not detonate them on the first shot. I thought that maybe my striker pin spring was starting to go bad, so I switched to friend's Beretta M92, which has detonated everything, even the ultra-hard primers in GECO Safe Action Slugs (BAT) that make CCI's hardness pale in comparison. I still had failures to detonate on the first trigger pull although the second trigger pull did the trick (yes, I always checked the barrel to make sure that it wasn't a squib load). I think I bought those primers sometime early in 2001, at a gun show in West Springfield, MA. Since then, I've gone through another 2000 CCI small pistol primers, and haven't had any problems, but for a brief moment in time, I was about to give up on CCI primers.