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Old April 26, 2008, 02:04 AM   #126
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My guess is that the people who oppose home carry, (particularly those who do so ardently) do so out of a misguided sense (probably partially rooted in the subconscious) that carrying at home will be an admission of vulnerability that could somehow actually increase their odds of being invaded. The same kind of reasoning that a small child uses to keep the "monster" under his bed by not looking to see if it's there and by not thinking about it.
Ha! projection! Those who really fear the monster are the ones who pretend to take steps...the strange rituals (posting on gun boards, putting guns on pillows, pet names for wepons) as well as having their talisman strapped on them! Garlic!

Your turn...

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Which naturally leads to a good bit of angst on both sides.
Every time I see that word angst I want to squeeze some zits, wear black and hate my parents.

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Old April 26, 2008, 02:12 AM   #127
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dont carry, have it within arms reach though.
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Old April 26, 2008, 03:11 AM   #128
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This same behavior can be seen in reverse in lotteries. There are people who are willing to pay good money to play the lottery in the face of astronomical odds because the potential payoff is so huge and yet who wouldn't stoop to pick up a penny. We all know that the odds of seeing a penny on the ground are pretty good while the odds of winning the lottery are really bad. So if the object of the game is free money, a person should spend his time looking for pennies on the ground rather than buying lottery tickets--right? WHY would someone pick the FAR less likely event (lottery win) to focus on instead of the much more likely one (free pennies)? I don't really think it's necessary to spend a lot of time explaining this "phenomenon".
And guess what I think about people who play the lottery


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A gun is just one more useful tool that I carry when it's practical. One that's come in handy--although (and this is sort of important to note for the purposes of the argument) not for self-defense in my case.
Bolded the important part. Unless you plan on showering with your pistol, sleeping with it, and carrying it while you do other things that are done in the home, then you aren't going to have it on all the time because its not practical.

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In other words, it's not JUST about criminals and home invasions, guns have other useful purposes.
Ok, I give. What other useful purpose is there in carrying in your home?


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My guess is that the people who oppose home carry, (particularly those who do so ardently) do so out of a misguided sense (probably partially rooted in the subconscious) that carrying at home will be an admission of vulnerability that could somehow actually increase their odds of being invaded. The same kind of reasoning that a small child uses to keep the "monster" under his bed by not looking to see if it's there and by not thinking about it.
Don't get me wrong. I don't oppose people carrying in their homes. Feel free to dance around your living room wearing a safariland and nothing else if it makes you happy. I just don't buy in to the "I do it for protection" reason.


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Then again, maybe you just don't see it as a practical option and I do... I think the biggest problem with this topic is that people on both sides of the issue are unwilling to take either side's comments at face value for various reasons. Which naturally leads to a good bit of angst on both sides.
No, I honestly don't think its practical. For someone with kids its definately not. For someone with a significant other its not. A glock just isn't conducive to cuddling. Even with a single guy I don't think its all that practical either.

I am taking the other sides arguments at face value, and thats the problem. Those arguing in favor of home carry are doing so from the perspective that its either that or nothing. Thats not the case. You see the other factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is how many crimes can be stopped by a person having a loaded gun readily available. The already infinitesimally small number that we are already dealing with is once again, cut in half, or even more.

When you look at it from this perspective, the percieved benefit from carrying is so far outweighed by the hinderances that the "stats" aren't a justification at all.
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:00 AM   #129
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This is a pretty funny thread that has almost ran it's course (I HOPE) but I thought the one where the guy from NY who still lived with his parents and could not get a permit to buy a gun because Mom didn't approve would end FAST. BOY, I was wrong.

I think the funny thing about this thread is that everyone's acting like your chances of being car jacked, robbed, mugged, involved in a hostage situation are WAY higher than being a victim of burglary or home invasion.

I see MANY posts where people proclaim that they'll likely never have to draw their concealed handgun in self-defense but carry just in case. Just like some guys have two guns, several knives, pepper spray, handcuff keys, flashlights, bug out bags, and dried beef jerky on/around their person at all times. Chances are all that is needless prognostication. Does it make us feel better? If so do it, if it makes you feel paranoid don't. Either way I don't think either side is right or wrong, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do".

I wake up, do my morning thing, dress, "strap up", and I have an additional check before I leave the house (keys, phone, wallet, gun). I go about my business, return home with the same stuff, and I remain holstered until I change into shorts/sweats/whatever. Usually my gun will go back in the safe or to a "safe zone" where I can easily access it. I might put on a smaller one if I'm going somewhere later but most nights I come home and I'm in for the night.

After dark (after my son goes to bed) I do retrieve my little friend and he lays on this computer desk since we had a tornado that knocked the fence down on the most vulnerable side of my house. Couple that with a high burglary rate, a murder or two, and a few home invasions on my side of town and yeah, it makes me sit a little more at ease.

At the end of the day the choice to own a gun is an individual choice. Many will say "You're crazy if you don't". The choice to carry a concealed gun is an individual choice, many will say "You're crazy if you don't". To an extent we're all paranoid survivalists, we just suffer delusions of different magnitudes. Telling others what should be "the bare acceptable minimum" of the delusions that we suffer is pretty ridiculous.

Respect each individual's level of paranoia, who knows, it might rub off on you one day. I like PlayboyPenguin's signature, something like laugh all you want but you know where you'll run if/when the zombies invade.
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Old April 27, 2008, 12:43 AM   #130
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Ha! projection!
Exactly the point of my tongue-in-cheek example. I think that it's really hard to have a discussion when one side or the other is basing arguments on suppositions about what the other side is thinking rather than about what is actually being said.
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Bolded the important part. Unless you plan on showering with your pistol, sleeping with it, and carrying it while you do other things that are done in the home, then you aren't going to have it on all the time because its not practical.
I don't see the relevance nor do I follow your reasoning. Is there some principle that you're aware of which states that if one doesn't carry every single moment of his existence then that entitles others to define what "practical" means for him? Or perhaps there's a natural law that indicates that if a person doesn't carry while showering then it means he's being disengenuous about the reasons why he does carry the rest of the time? Sorry, that statement simply doesn't make sense at all...
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Ok, I give. What other useful purpose is there in carrying in your home?
The statement you're responding to wasn't intended to be limited in its scope to only home carry, but here's one example of a situation (not involving crime or home invasion) where one might find it useful to have a gun while at home.
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I just don't buy in to the "I do it for protection" reason.
Yes, you've explained why you don't and I've explained why the reasoning behind why you say you believe that way is flawed.

People weigh both positive and negative occurrences based on the "value" of the event (HOW bad or good will the outcome be), not just based on the probabilities (is this a LIKELY outcome). This is not a hard concept to understand and examples of this behavior are not at all hard to find.
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Those arguing in favor of home carry are doing so from the perspective that its either that or nothing.
Huh? Who said that?
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You see the other factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is how many crimes can be stopped by a person having a loaded gun readily available. The already infinitesimally small number that we are already dealing with is once again, cut in half, or even more.
Wow, I'm not following this at all. It's been shown that guns are used around 2 million times a year to prevent crime. How does that cut anything "in half or even more", and how is that infinitesimal?
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For someone with kids its definately not. For someone with a significant other its not. A glock just isn't conducive to cuddling. Even with a single guy I don't think its all that practical either.
Pax (who has children) posted that she finds it practical and explained why. Dunno what else to say other than you can't keep pretending that this is a discussion if you're going to resort to "non-tactics" such as blatant contradiction without justification or logical support.
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:32 AM   #131
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Is there some principle that you're aware of which states that if one doesn't carry every single moment of his existence then that entitles others to define what "practical" means for him? Or perhaps there's a natural law that indicates that if a person doesn't carry while showering then it means he's being disengenuous about the reasons why he does carry the rest of the time? Sorry, that statement simply doesn't make sense at all...
Its not that the person is disingenuous for carrying, its that they are disingenuous for their use of statistics to support why they carry.

If packing in your home is practical for you, then by all means, do it. However you can hardly cry foul when those of us who don't kinda look at you funny if for no other reason than the fact that it just has to be damn uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but when I get home and want to have a meal and relax, the last thing I want is some gun poking me in the side while I sit, or hanging from a belt. Hell I shouldn't even be wearing a belt. I guess the fundamental difference here isn't necessarily carrying, but home behavior in general. Assuming guests aren't over, you'd be lucky to catch me with a shirt on, much less a firearm.


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Wow, I'm not following this at all. It's been shown that guns are used around 2 million times a year to prevent crime. How does that cut anything "in half or even more", and how is that infinitesimal?
And what percentage of those 2 million times were in the home? Of those, what percentage were people who carry in the home? My guess is not many at all.

The reason the figure is infinitesimal is because when you take an already statistically insignificant number and cut it in half or more, you are left, for all intents and purposes, with zero.

A perp has to choose my house, which is unlikely. He then has to break in, which is very unlikely. I have to be home at the time he is breaking in, which is unlikely. He has to be armed, which is very unlikely. And here's the kicker... it has to be just the perfect situation in which having a loaded firearm, readily accessible isn't going to be helpful, but one on your hip is. I submit that this type of situation is so absolutely unlikely that probably even can't be measured.

Why? Because I know my house. I know what are normal sounds and what aren't. I know the layout. I know where my gun is, and how long its going to take me to get there. I know where the "good" spots are and which rooms are what, and what hallways go where. And this doesn't even begin to assume things like dogs, alarms, motion lights, etc.

This is why its nonsensical to use the stats to justify carrying at home. With nothing else in life would you see a person do something based on such a teeny tiny percentage and yet for some twisted reason, if guns are involved, then the old line about, "well you'll never know when you'll need it" gets trotted out. If you're going to base your actions on that small a percentage then I'd better find a parachute in your closet just because.

I won't, however, because human nature is such that we don't bother with things that we feel are unecessary and burdensome, unless we like them. This tells me, its not the stat, but the gun itself. If we are really gpoing to put some perspective on this, I bet that some of the people who carry at home are smokers. They are going to sit here and argue that something with a .00000000000000000000001% chance of happening is worth precaution, but they cant be bothered to stop something that has a 1 in 3 chance or whatever of killing them?

Thats the hypocracy.

Of course there is the other alternative that WA suggested. Namely that someone really does fear home invasions on a daily basis, in which case I submit that they have problems far beyond the reach of any solution that any firearm could provide.

Quote:
Pax (who has children) posted that she finds it practical and explained why.
And why don't you asked Pax how old her kids were when she started carrying.
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Old April 27, 2008, 06:40 AM   #132
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Its not that the person is disingenuous for carrying, its that they are disingenuous for their use of statistics to support why they carry.
I don't use a bunch of numbers to decide if I carry or not. I carry because of my experiences in the real world...period. Stats are just that, and you can crunch numbers to suit any needs, political polls do this all the time, as do antis to try and make a point.

Bottom line is, I carry because my over 1/2 century life on this planet has taught me a lot. One of those things is the fact you better be prepared for unexpected things, and anyone who doesn't know home invasion is on the rise, must be living on a much better planet than we live on. Silent out...
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Old April 27, 2008, 10:15 AM   #133
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Man, this thread got pretty serious. In response to a few things ive read/skimmed over, i do not carry 24/7, but it is within reach. When i go out, providing i am not going somewhere guns are restricted (school, etc), its on my hip. When i come home, i dont take it off til i go to bed. I just got up a couple hours ago, yet my gun is still on my nightstand. when i leave to run errands this afternoon tho, ill be sure to strap it on.
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Old April 27, 2008, 11:10 AM   #134
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I swore off this conversation, but will answer the question of fact directed at me:

At the time I began carrying, my youngest was approaching his 3rd birthday and my oldest was approaching his 9th birthday. I have five children, all sons, no twins.

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Old April 27, 2008, 11:27 AM   #135
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I've heard about folks who cary a CCW on them at home, and a few that even move a shotgun and rifle with them from room to room as they move around their house. If that makes you feel better, go for it, but its a life that I do not want.

A criminal getting in to my home is going to take some time, and make alot of noise. If i need to get a gun at home, its only a few steps to the bedroom and I can pick up whatever I like.
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Old April 27, 2008, 11:40 AM   #136
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Bottom line is, I carry because my over 1/2 century life on this planet has taught me a lot. One of those things is the fact you better be prepared for unexpected things, and anyone who doesn't know home invasion is on the rise, must be living on a much better planet than we live on. Silent out...
I assume you wear a lightning rod on your head for the unexpected lightning strike too?

I have seen reports of toilets blowing up, so I wear body armor on the can...



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Old April 27, 2008, 12:19 PM   #137
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Live Free or Die

This is the state motto of New Hampshire where I happen to Live. I will say this I always have a weapon on my person. Not only for home and personal protection but for the peace of mind it gives me this day in age. Here if you can legaly buy a pistol you can get a CCW permit. And you know what. we have very little violent crime. Kind of funny when you know there is a very good possibility of getting shot doing something wrong you generaly wont do it.
Plus in my line of work better be safe than sorry.
Take your kids to a firearms saftey class taught by someone else beacuase veryone knows kids dont listen to thier own parents
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Old April 27, 2008, 12:50 PM   #138
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I will say this I always have a weapon on my person.
24/7 too? Whats your technique for sleeping?..... I frequently wake up when my pajama holster gets tangled in my woobie.....

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Old April 27, 2008, 12:53 PM   #139
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I frequently wake up when my pajama holster gets tangled in my woobie.....
Please rephrase that statement for my peace of mind. I know "woobie" is a word you northerners sometimes use to refer to a childhood blanket or comforting item...but to many southerners a "woobie" is something totally different. That different meaning makes your statement very disturbing to some of us.
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Old April 27, 2008, 01:19 PM   #140
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Please rephrase that statement for my peace of mind. I know "woobie" is a word you northerners sometimes use to refer to a childhood blanket or comforting item...but to many southerners a "woobie" is something totally different. That different meaning makes your statement very disturbing to some of us.
So did you walk out of the Terry garr, Michael keaton movie that I can never remember the title of?

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woobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobie
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Old April 27, 2008, 01:21 PM   #141
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WildallrightwhatsasouthernwoobiepmmeAlaska TM

woobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobiewoobie
PM sent.

PS: I think you are referring to the movie "Mr. Mom."
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Old April 27, 2008, 01:40 PM   #142
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To answer the original question, sometimes. It goes with me when I leave and gets put away at some point when I get home. Might be on my belt for a coupla minutes, or all night. Depends on what I'm doing and when I get around to it. If it's not on it's handy because I'd sure feel dumb if I wanted it and didn't get to it in time.

What I don't get is the hostility here. Well, maybe hostility is a bit strong, but there's some serious opinions. Carry all the time you're paranoid, go unstrapped at home you're a hopeless victim in waiting.

Do what you like, nothing to me one way or the other.

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Old April 27, 2008, 02:15 PM   #143
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I dont carry at home. the odds of needing it are not there. i do have weapons stashed that i can get to if needed.
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Old April 27, 2008, 02:17 PM   #144
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I dont carry at home. the odds of needing it are not there. i do have weapons stashed that i can get to if needed.
Just curious, if the odds of needing it aren't there, why have weapons stashed?
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Old April 27, 2008, 02:54 PM   #145
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I assume you wear a lightning rod on your head for the unexpected lightning strike too?
How did you know that?!?
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:10 PM   #146
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How did you know that?!?
Great visual! Where are the photoshop geeks in the place!!!!!

Need a fat guy in stained BVDs (or jammies with Hello Kitty pattern) with (no shirt please)........

HK MK23 SOCOM IN BLACKHAWK THIGH RIG!!!!!

and a lightning rod on his head..bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahah

Most creative submission gets free gift....hmmm....OK.... WWG T Shirt or Glock 23 14 shot mag or Magul AR mag winners choice

Bonus for Glock on a rope.

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Old April 27, 2008, 07:06 PM   #147
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OK! I'm a fat guy, I already got the Glock, my wife and daughter are Hello Kitty fans and she has fabric and sews. Send me the SOCOM with holster and I'll get the pictures taken for your amusement. You Forgot the big pink bubble gum cigar though, I'll throw that in the pic for free.
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Old April 27, 2008, 07:20 PM   #148
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This isn't meant to offend or address anyone here in particular. That being said, carrying 24/7 and always around the house in my world I would be considered a paranoid delusional freak that friends and family would be afraid of, period. I carry when I take walks and bicycle because there have been issues on the bike trails lately. I live in a nice neighborhood, been burglarized twice. I know the next door neighbor kid and his friends did it, I just can't prove it. My home was gun free until after the second time(the first time they got in but the dog scared them off). The second time they were inside my home on the first floor, cleaned us out while we slept on the second. I now have made some security changes around the house, but I don't carry in my home. If I go camping or hiking, I carry. I don't need to carry while I mow my lawn or get my mail. I think some people take it too far......but maybe someday one of you will be packing when I'm not and save my sorry arse. I have been involved in martial arts off and on most of my life, and one thing I do..always is be aware of my sorroundings. If someone looks off, I go the other way or watch them until I'm satisfyed they are not a threat(usually gone).
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Old April 27, 2008, 07:24 PM   #149
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one thing I do..always is be aware of my sorroundings.

Like when they were emptying your house literally out from under you.

Sorry couldn't pass it up.
Welcome to the forum.
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Old April 27, 2008, 07:28 PM   #150
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I carry at home, I carry everywhere. The only time you'll see me without a gun is somewhere that doesn't allow to legally carry a firearm. I have a glock 21 strapped to my side as I type with 13 in the mag, one in the chamber and a spare mag in my cargo pocket. Is it bothering me? Not at all, i've worn a gun daily for 5 years, I don't even notice it's there. Do I feel like a prisoner in my own home? Not in the least, I'm sitting on a good sized patch of land, in a house with a very good security system, motion sensor lights etc and a reinforced door. Now taking away all of that, if someone is near my house, or a car pulls up it in all likelyhood is not a friendly visit. No one drives up here and friends and family never show up unexpected. If someone knocks on my door I have no way of knowing their intention and I don't want to have to run to a hide spot to have a firearm ready. It's in my holster ready to be drawn and fired if someone feels the need to force there way into my house.

I've only drawn a weapon down on someone once and it was without hesitation. I'm not worried about cramping up during the moment of truth and I'm not worried about a gun being a little uncomfortable at my side. I'll take the slight discomfort over dead forever.
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