Open carry in Va...again

chris in va · November 18, 2007, 02:37 PM

I'm getting tired of having to 'hide' my Sig, Ruger or CZ every time I go out. The few times I've OC'ed here a couple people have made comments with one mild confrontation.

But I want to work back up to OC again just because it's so much more comfortable. Leaving my gun in the car every time I eat out is getting very very old. I keep reading about people in AZ and Utah having very few issues with this, and it really makes me wonder why I have such a problem here in VA (about 60 miles from DC).

Any tips on how to bolster myself for carrying openly again?

PointOneSeven · November 18, 2007, 04:19 PM

Be a nice guy! I worked with a guy that open carried even before I was into guns. He was a pleasant guy, that happened to have a gun strapped to his belt, no big deal, nobody thought anything of it. As long as it is in a decent holster and not sticking out of the top of your jeans like you're about to rob the place, it should be fine

.

Tanzer · November 18, 2007, 04:23 PM

This is a hard one to help you with Chris, because we're all different. Some of us don't like to be rude, some are naturally sarcastic, and most fall somewhere in between.
I personally would make an initial attempt to be as polite as possible, explaining that it I have good reason which I'd rather not discuss, and thanking them for their concern. If they persisted, I would tell them frankly that my firearm is as legal as the eyeglasses I'm wearing, and I'm entrusted by means of my permit to carry it, so please be on their way. If that wasn't enough, I'd pretty much give them a very firm but non-confrontational pithy comeback and ignore them afterwards.
If it were something other than a firearm, I'd be quite likely to bawl them out, but it is imperative to A) not start something while armed, and B) present firearm ownership as something for level-headed upstanding indivduals. As hard as it might be, you don't want to stoop to the rude and cocky level of the antis.
Just my two cents.
BTW - I'm not an advocate of open carry, but I respect your right.

jfrey123 · November 18, 2007, 04:28 PM

Appearance is everything. Keep yourself clean cut or well groomed if you have facial hair. Dress in nice jeans or slacks. Tuck in a shirt with a collar, dress shirt might be a little excessive but a nice polo shirt can go a long way. A small chest emblem on said shirt makes you look "official" without impersonating. Nice holster goes a long way, and for open carry I'd look into something with a retention strap. I think those look a little more "official" in that regard.

Now, by saying look official, I'm not advocating to impersonate in any way, shape or form. However, if you dress the part a little bit, you won't look like some "guy with a gun." You'll look like a guy who should be carry a gun.

ZeSpectre · November 18, 2007, 04:31 PM

Some general advice that may or may not help.

If someone wants to be confrontational, state the following LOUDLY so others can overhear..."Sir (or Ma'am) open carry is completely legal in Virginia, harassment is not, I'm walking away now and if you don't stop bothering me I'm going to call the police."

Then walk away.

If they want to keep harassing you...call the police.

KONY · November 18, 2007, 07:09 PM

Not sure what advice to offer as I have not had too much trouble with open carry. I think I've had only two "incidents" while doing so:

1) While open carrying my Security-Six at Silver Diner in Fairfax, some jerk muttered, "they let you carry that thing 'round here?!" while passing my table. I was with my wife and was a bit shocked so I said nothing.

2) While open carrying with the same Security-Six (god, I miss this wheelgun!) at the Outhouse (Outback) Steakhouse in Fairfax, the location's owner himself came over to inform me that guns are not allowed in his restaurant unless you are a LEO. At this time, we (was with my wife again) had already ordered and he suggested I place my gun in my car. A bit pissed, we just got up and left to a much better steakhouse that actually likes to make money.

chris in va · November 19, 2007, 03:19 AM

I might try it again then. Fall off the horse, get back on right? Maybe I can convince my friend to OC with me as well. She can carry the old model 36 inherited from her mom.

CajunBass · November 19, 2007, 06:37 AM

I don't what to tell you Chris except to give it another try. Down here in "Free Virginia" (anything south of the Rapahannock.) I've never had a bit of trouble with OC either from the police or anyone else. That includes Spotsylvania, Caroline, Henrico, Chesterfield, Hanover, Culpepper and the City of Richmond (Which is certainly not known for being "gun friendly". I don't carry inconspicous guns either. Lately it's been a duty sized XD-9, but I also use a Colt Commander, and a Smith & Wesson 39-2. The ONLY thing anyone has ever asked me was along the lines of "Can I do that too."

Well this past Saturday, I did have a "little old lady" over in Paige County, ask me "Is that real?" Then after I assured her it was, she asked "What kind is it?" I told it was made by Springfield Armory. She replied "It's a pretty one." <lol> I've heard an XD-9 called a lot of things, but I'd never heard them called "pretty."

Maybe when you're 6 ft and 290 people ain't so brave about sticking their nose in your face, I don't know. I dont' go out of my way to "dress nice." Jeans, sweat shirt, work boots most of the time. If I go into someplace big like a Wal-Mart, I will cover up, but convience stores, and places like that I don't usually bother. For me "covering up" is just a matter of pulling a sweat shirt over it this time of year. I sure don't worry about "printing." During the summer I just keep an old button down shirt in the truck to throw on unbottoned if I'm going some place where I want to cover up. My wife is usually horrified. "OH MY LORD! That thing hasn't been washed and ironed since I don't know when."

Good luck with the resistance up there in "Occupied Virginia."

WhiteFeather93 · November 19, 2007, 11:31 AM

I think these are all some good pointers. Just some extra thought for you would be to check out http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/ and talk to some people who live right in your area. You may also find a handy little flyer to take with you to provide people with information on public carry.

My personal advice is to always maintain a polite and cooperative manor. Expect confrontation because sooner or later it will happen. But how you present yourself will set the mood for tollerance from others. Good appearance helps and goes a long way. Make sure you have a good retension holster like a serpa. And lastly act normal! Don't act gittery or nervous some people will pick up on that particulary other people who carry. And you may receive extra attention for that reason alone. Just act normal and remember you are doing something that not only is very legal but also important. You are protecting yourself and hopefully conveying to the public that an armed populace is a polite populace.

joab · November 19, 2007, 11:38 AM

Carry the pertinent excerpt from the law that allows you to carry printed on a business card along with a link to your website (VCDL)
Hand it to them and walk away

chris in va · November 19, 2007, 12:41 PM

You guys have a link so I can print it out?

Perldog007 · November 20, 2007, 12:34 PM

Chris, when I took my ccw course at Gilbert Small Arms (I think technically in Fairfax Coiunty, off the fairfax pkwy from 95 towards woodbridge from D.C.) there was an instructor there who belonged to a group or club that did "open carry revolt" a bunch of them would strap up and go into a Fudruckers or some such.

I did OC in olde towne Alexandria when I was @ work, becuase just about all the restaurants serve alchohol. Yes you do run into a$$oholics when Oc'ing in Northern VA. Be polite, be pleasant, let them be wrong and leave without getting into a confrontation.

Most people won't bother you, most that do are curious. I am surprised about the OUthouse, never had any trouble at the one in SPfld, but haven't lived there for some years now.

I agree that carrying it with you is better than leaving it in your car.

You can always say "I am licensed to carry this, but sometimes it has to be carried openly, this is one of those times" with a smile. Assuring onlookers that you have had your background and fingerprints checked, been trained and tested in class and on the range can help too.

Do your thing, it will be O.K. -Stay Safe

Mr. James · November 21, 2007, 03:16 PM

Hi, Chris,

I open carry all the time - and I mean all the time - in Northern Virginia - Fairfax, Centreville, Chantilly, even Arlington. Dress neatly, speak softly, smile a lot. You are right where you belong.

99.99 percent of your neighbors out there will not even notice. The very few who do will assume only a cop carries openly.

Quote:

"I am licensed to carry this, but sometimes it has to be carried openly, this is one of those times" with a smile

Well done.

ETA: VCDL has a card, a bit too large for wallet carry, that summarizes where open and concealed carry are legal. You can get them from VCDL, or at their gun show tables.

chris in va · November 24, 2007, 01:39 AM

Thanks for the encouragement.

I just have this scenerio playing over in my head all the time. OC in my favorite restaraunt, only to have the manager confront me and point out I shouldn't be having it in his place. Or the *only* bowling alley in town, happens to serve alcohol...and various management/patrons confront me as to why I have a firearm and/or tell me to leave.

If it was a place I don't frequent, it wouldn't bother me as much. Things are different out here, we take what we can get.

user · November 24, 2007, 05:02 PM

Sort of relevant, but a bit of a tangent; this is something I posted on the Virginia lawyers' list server recently - thought you might be interested.

=====

I was just reading over a list of gun-hostile businesses at the Virginia
Citizens' Defense League, Inc. website,
http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html
and it occurred to me to wonder whether anyone's suing any such businesses
regarding injuries suffered at the hands of third-party assailants.

I realize that some folks won't like my thinking in this area, but if I were
litigating such a case, I'd say that a policy that unnecessarily restricted
the ability of persons otherwise lawfully in possession of firearms from
acting in self-defense and/or defense of others in such an emergency is
legal malice, and evidence that the business negligently interfered with the
ability of persons present to prevent or ameliorate the injuries suffered.

I'm thinking it might be a basis for an award of punitive damages,
especially in light of a failure of the business to implement any method of
making up for the lack. I'd argue, further, that such a policy requires
implementation of policies and procedures to actually keep consumers safe
while engaged in transactions in the business' premises. Such a business
makes itself totally responsible as an absolute insurer of consumers' safety
(not just in terms of a duty towards business invitees), if it takes steps
to preclude the ability of otherwise law-abiding consumers to protect
themselves and others.

By the way, law enforcement personnel are not exempt from the trespassing
statute unless they act pursuant to an emergency, crime in progress, or a
warrant. So law-enforcement officers aren't allowed to carry guns in
Manassas Mall, while shopping, any more than you are, and violation of the
posted "no trespassing" policy is just as much a class-1 misdemeanor for
them as for us.

I'm thinking of the scene in "Bronco Billy" in which Clint Eastwood
interrupts a bank robbery. I'm not shopping in any business in which Bronco
Billy wouldn't be allowed to carry his gun (assuming a lawfully issued
concealed carry permit).

November 18, 2007, 02:37 PM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Open carry in Va...again I'm getting tired of having to 'hide' my Sig, Ruger or CZ every time I go out. The few times I've OC'ed here a couple people have made comments with one mild confrontation. But I want to work back up to OC again just because it's so much more comfortable. Leaving my gun in the car every time I eat out is getting very very old. I keep reading about people in AZ and Utah having very few issues with this, and it really makes me wonder why I have such a problem here in VA (about 60 miles from DC). Any tips on how to bolster myself for carrying openly again?

November 18, 2007, 04:23 PM	#3
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	This is a hard one to help you with Chris, because we're all different. Some of us don't like to be rude, some are naturally sarcastic, and most fall somewhere in between. I personally would make an initial attempt to be as polite as possible, explaining that it I have good reason which I'd rather not discuss, and thanking them for their concern. If they persisted, I would tell them frankly that my firearm is as legal as the eyeglasses I'm wearing, and I'm entrusted by means of my permit to carry it, so please be on their way. If that wasn't enough, I'd pretty much give them a very firm but non-confrontational pithy comeback and ignore them afterwards. If it were something other than a firearm, I'd be quite likely to bawl them out, but it is imperative to A) not start something while armed, and B) present firearm ownership as something for level-headed upstanding indivduals. As hard as it might be, you don't want to stoop to the rude and cocky level of the antis. Just my two cents. BTW - I'm not an advocate of open carry, but I respect your right. __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

November 18, 2007, 04:28 PM	#4
jfrey123 Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2006 Location: Reno, NV. Posts: 1,026	Appearance is everything. Keep yourself clean cut or well groomed if you have facial hair. Dress in nice jeans or slacks. Tuck in a shirt with a collar, dress shirt might be a little excessive but a nice polo shirt can go a long way. A small chest emblem on said shirt makes you look "official" without impersonating. Nice holster goes a long way, and for open carry I'd look into something with a retention strap. I think those look a little more "official" in that regard. Now, by saying look official, I'm not advocating to impersonate in any way, shape or form. However, if you dress the part a little bit, you won't look like some "guy with a gun." You'll look like a guy who should be carry a gun. __________________ Rock out with your Glock out!

November 18, 2007, 07:09 PM	#6
KONY Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2004 Posts: 109	Not sure what advice to offer as I have not had too much trouble with open carry. I think I've had only two "incidents" while doing so: 1) While open carrying my Security-Six at Silver Diner in Fairfax, some jerk muttered, "they let you carry that thing 'round here?!" while passing my table. I was with my wife and was a bit shocked so I said nothing. 2) While open carrying with the same Security-Six (god, I miss this wheelgun!) at the Outhouse (Outback) Steakhouse in Fairfax, the location's owner himself came over to inform me that guns are not allowed in his restaurant unless you are a LEO. At this time, we (was with my wife again) had already ordered and he suggested I place my gun in my car. A bit pissed, we just got up and left to a much better steakhouse that actually likes to make money. __________________ "Man's got a right to protect his property and his life, and we ain't gonna let no rancher or his lawman take either." - Boss Spearman

November 19, 2007, 06:37 AM	#8
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	I don't what to tell you Chris except to give it another try. Down here in "Free Virginia" (anything south of the Rapahannock.) I've never had a bit of trouble with OC either from the police or anyone else. That includes Spotsylvania, Caroline, Henrico, Chesterfield, Hanover, Culpepper and the City of Richmond (Which is certainly not known for being "gun friendly". I don't carry inconspicous guns either. Lately it's been a duty sized XD-9, but I also use a Colt Commander, and a Smith & Wesson 39-2. The ONLY thing anyone has ever asked me was along the lines of "Can I do that too." Well this past Saturday, I did have a "little old lady" over in Paige County, ask me "Is that real?" Then after I assured her it was, she asked "What kind is it?" I told it was made by Springfield Armory. She replied "It's a pretty one." <lol> I've heard an XD-9 called a lot of things, but I'd never heard them called "pretty." Maybe when you're 6 ft and 290 people ain't so brave about sticking their nose in your face, I don't know. I dont' go out of my way to "dress nice." Jeans, sweat shirt, work boots most of the time. If I go into someplace big like a Wal-Mart, I will cover up, but convience stores, and places like that I don't usually bother. For me "covering up" is just a matter of pulling a sweat shirt over it this time of year. I sure don't worry about "printing." During the summer I just keep an old button down shirt in the truck to throw on unbottoned if I'm going some place where I want to cover up. My wife is usually horrified. "OH MY LORD! That thing hasn't been washed and ironed since I don't know when." Good luck with the resistance up there in "Occupied Virginia." __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

November 18, 2007, 04:19 PM	#2
PointOneSeven Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2006 Posts: 579	Be a nice guy! I worked with a guy that open carried even before I was into guns. He was a pleasant guy, that happened to have a gun strapped to his belt, no big deal, nobody thought anything of it. As long as it is in a decent holster and not sticking out of the top of your jeans like you're about to rob the place, it should be fine .

November 18, 2007, 04:31 PM	#5
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Some general advice that may or may not help. If someone wants to be confrontational, state the following LOUDLY so others can overhear..."Sir (or Ma'am) open carry is completely legal in Virginia, harassment is not, I'm walking away now and if you don't stop bothering me I'm going to call the police." Then walk away. If they want to keep harassing you...call the police.

November 19, 2007, 03:19 AM	#7
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I might try it again then. Fall off the horse, get back on right? Maybe I can convince my friend to OC with me as well. She can carry the old model 36 inherited from her mom.

November 19, 2007, 11:31 AM	#9
WhiteFeather93 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Oley Pa Posts: 281	I think these are all some good pointers. Just some extra thought for you would be to check out http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/ and talk to some people who live right in your area. You may also find a handy little flyer to take with you to provide people with information on public carry. My personal advice is to always maintain a polite and cooperative manor. Expect confrontation because sooner or later it will happen. But how you present yourself will set the mood for tollerance from others. Good appearance helps and goes a long way. Make sure you have a good retension holster like a serpa. And lastly act normal! Don't act gittery or nervous some people will pick up on that particulary other people who carry. And you may receive extra attention for that reason alone. Just act normal and remember you are doing something that not only is very legal but also important. You are protecting yourself and hopefully conveying to the public that an armed populace is a polite populace. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Freud "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." -Thomas Jefferson.

November 19, 2007, 11:38 AM	#10
joab Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2002 Location: Orl Fla Posts: 3,254	Carry the pertinent excerpt from the law that allows you to carry printed on a business card along with a link to your website (VCDL) Hand it to them and walk away __________________ Joab the Bugman Founding member- Lords of Pomposity It's a Yankee Doodle thing

November 19, 2007, 12:41 PM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	You guys have a link so I can print it out?

November 20, 2007, 12:34 PM	#12
Perldog007 Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Location: Estados Unitas / United States Posts: 986	Chris, when I took my ccw course at Gilbert Small Arms (I think technically in Fairfax Coiunty, off the fairfax pkwy from 95 towards woodbridge from D.C.) there was an instructor there who belonged to a group or club that did "open carry revolt" a bunch of them would strap up and go into a Fudruckers or some such. I did OC in olde towne Alexandria when I was @ work, becuase just about all the restaurants serve alchohol. Yes you do run into a$$oholics when Oc'ing in Northern VA. Be polite, be pleasant, let them be wrong and leave without getting into a confrontation. Most people won't bother you, most that do are curious. I am surprised about the OUthouse, never had any trouble at the one in SPfld, but haven't lived there for some years now. I agree that carrying it with you is better than leaving it in your car. You can always say "I am licensed to carry this, but sometimes it has to be carried openly, this is one of those times" with a smile. Assuring onlookers that you have had your background and fingerprints checked, been trained and tested in class and on the range can help too. Do your thing, it will be O.K. -Stay Safe Last edited by Perldog007; November 20, 2007 at 12:35 PM. Reason: CSS - Can't Spell $#!7

November 24, 2007, 01:39 AM	#14
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Thanks for the encouragement. I just have this scenerio playing over in my head all the time. OC in my favorite restaraunt, only to have the manager confront me and point out I shouldn't be having it in his place. Or the only bowling alley in town, happens to serve alcohol...and various management/patrons confront me as to why I have a firearm and/or tell me to leave. If it was a place I don't frequent, it wouldn't bother me as much. Things are different out here, we take what we can get.

November 24, 2007, 05:02 PM	#15
user Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Posts: 25	gun hostile businesses Sort of relevant, but a bit of a tangent; this is something I posted on the Virginia lawyers' list server recently - thought you might be interested. ===== I was just reading over a list of gun-hostile businesses at the Virginia Citizens' Defense League, Inc. website, http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html and it occurred to me to wonder whether anyone's suing any such businesses regarding injuries suffered at the hands of third-party assailants. I realize that some folks won't like my thinking in this area, but if I were litigating such a case, I'd say that a policy that unnecessarily restricted the ability of persons otherwise lawfully in possession of firearms from acting in self-defense and/or defense of others in such an emergency is legal malice, and evidence that the business negligently interfered with the ability of persons present to prevent or ameliorate the injuries suffered. I'm thinking it might be a basis for an award of punitive damages, especially in light of a failure of the business to implement any method of making up for the lack. I'd argue, further, that such a policy requires implementation of policies and procedures to actually keep consumers safe while engaged in transactions in the business' premises. Such a business makes itself totally responsible as an absolute insurer of consumers' safety (not just in terms of a duty towards business invitees), if it takes steps to preclude the ability of otherwise law-abiding consumers to protect themselves and others. By the way, law enforcement personnel are not exempt from the trespassing statute unless they act pursuant to an emergency, crime in progress, or a warrant. So law-enforcement officers aren't allowed to carry guns in Manassas Mall, while shopping, any more than you are, and violation of the posted "no trespassing" policy is just as much a class-1 misdemeanor for them as for us. I'm thinking of the scene in "Bronco Billy" in which Clint Eastwood interrupts a bank robbery. I'm not shopping in any business in which Bronco Billy wouldn't be allowed to carry his gun (assuming a lawfully issued concealed carry permit).