Glock Volunteers Wanted...

LordTio3 · May 7, 2010, 09:09 AM

I've finally decided that I want more information on an issue, and you Glock owners out there may be able to help me.

My carry weapon is a Glock 19 9mm, and the issue in question involves a loading proceedure.

When I load magazines into my pistols, I do not do it gingerly. I do it very stoutly. I don't SLAM them in, but if I got a piece of skin between the floorplate and the magwell, a few layers are probably comming off (not often). It is how I was trained to ensure proper magazine seating, and I believe that the muscle memory helps me in hi-stress situations.

Now the main question. When I load a magazine with the slide in lock-back position on my 19, with the force that I load the weapon, it causes the slide-stop to disengage; chambering a round. No slide release lever, no sling-shoting: Insert-aim-fire. I can and do make this happen reliably with my weapon and have never seen a problem with it. There is no damage to my pistol or the magazines I use because of this, and I can choose whether or not I want the slide to come forward by how hard I insert the mag with the heel of my hand.

Is this technically a malfunction?
And to you Glock owners out there with factory slide-release levers, go ahead and give it a try. If you're inside, you may want to use snap-caps in the magazine.
Can you get it to work?

All things considered, I prefer to have the option of doing it this way. It feels to me like slapping the bolt-release on an AR platform after loading, and I don't have to worry about my fine motor skills durring a stress-reload. Now I don't always do it this way, but I'd say 85-90% of the time I do. My prefered alternative is to insert and slide-release.

Thoughts?
~LT

jmr40 · May 7, 2010, 10:04 AM

My Glocks do the same. Not every time, but quite often if I insert the mag briskly.

ElectricHellfire · May 7, 2010, 10:07 AM

Its pretty common.

Sturmgewehre · May 7, 2010, 10:09 AM

I can cause it to happen with any of my Glocks. I've never seen it cause a failure to feed, but then again I don't think it's ideal behavior.

I've been able to do it with other pistols over the years too. So it's nothing unique to Glocks.

LOUcifer · May 7, 2010, 10:13 AM

I would get the same thing when I owned my Block...I can get my M&P's to do that too...my Sig P250 though will do it if I REALLY give it a good push up.

I didn't see anything wrong with that at all or think it was a malfunction...I look at it as "convenient"

.357SIG · May 7, 2010, 10:42 AM

You want to hear about technicality, so don't get mad. You are slamming the mags in WAY too hard. If you are pushing with so much force as to possibly pinch off a piece of skin, you should tone it down. Remember, the magazine isn't the strongest part of the gun, and beating on them can damage both the magazine catch and the polymer stop built on the magazine, as well as the counterparts on the gun itself. Training I've received from various sources has never required more than a good, firm push with the heel of your hand. Additionally, this method is more natural when doing a reload.

Having said that, you're just jarring the slide loose with the force of impact. To the slide catch, it is no different than thumbing it down and will not cause any abnormal wear.

The other part is that you're relying on it in your practice most of the time. It isn't the best thing to use as a training aid, as it isn't supposed to occur under normal conditions.

vladan · May 7, 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

You want to hear about technicality, so don't get mad. You are slamming the mags in WAY too hard. If you are pushing with so much force as to possibly pinch off a piece of skin, you should tone it down. Remember, the magazine isn't the strongest part of the gun, and beating on them can damage both the magazine catch and the polymer stop built on the magazine, as well as the counterparts on the gun itself. Training I've received from various sources has never required more than a good, firm push with the heel of your hand.

Having said that, you're just jarring the slide loose with the force of impact. On the slide catch, it is no different than thumbing it down.

+1 , only time when you MIGHT need a little slap on the bottom of mag is when you loading full mag under closed slide

LordTio3 · May 7, 2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

+1 , only time when you MIGHT need a little slap on the bottom of mag is when you loading full mag under closed slide

This is true, as there is only the resistance of the magazine stop and not a lot else when loading into an open breech. I really don't feel like I'm being overly rough with the process, just quite assertive. As for causing undue damage to the weapon or magazine; I've had my magazines and my weapon for years now and have seen or witnessed no noticeable damage in function or cosmetics from this practice. Now, I am also not arguing that it would be a good habit to develop. All guns are not as sturdy as Glocks are. I really don't want to know what it would take to break my 19, but some of the others may not hold up so well. The 19 is my workhorse, so it gets mistreated (before being pampered).

I learned proper function of a firearm at an early age, but perhaps its time to train a little more finesse. Thanks for all the comments, and it is good to know that my weapon is not the only one that functions this way. I have lots of friends with "wondernine's" but no other Glocks to check function with.

~LT

.357SIG · May 7, 2010, 11:46 AM

Like I said...just technicality. I don't want you to think you have to do it "my way", but since you asked...

My only real concern is to do with the training aspect, as that is not a reliable "feature" of your gun to count on when it matters. I will throw my own bump in the road out there to "ram it home", so to speak.

At the range, I used to load each magazine with 3 rounds to practice reloading. Over enough time, it became natural to dump the mag after those 3 rounds were fired, and much later on, when I loaded a FULL mag, I dumped it on more than one occasion after only 3 rounds. I NEVER count rounds, just fire until dry, but somehow, my brain knew when to dump it without even thinking about it.

What did this teach me? You will ALWAYS fall back on your training and muscle memory. I knew full well that my mag was full, but dumped it anyway. Now, I change up the # of rounds in the mags to keep me from "remembering" when to dump it out. The problem has been fixed.

With that in mind, you are likely going to rely on that automatic release of the slide as second nature. When it doesn't happen, you will freeze up for a second, then you're gonna actually have to think about what happened and remedy the situation, all the while being attacked by a person, wild animal, bigfoot, or whatever.

vladan · May 7, 2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

This is true, as there is only the resistance of the magazine stop and not a lot else when loading into an open breech. I really don't feel like I'm being overly rough with the process, just quite assertive. As for causing undue damage to the weapon or magazine; I've had my magazines and my weapon for years now and have seen or witnessed no noticeable damage in function or cosmetics from this practice. Now, I am also not arguing that it would be a good habit to develop. All guns are not as sturdy as Glocks are. I really don't want to know what it would take to break my 19, but some of the others may not hold up so well. The 19 is my workhorse, so it gets mistreated (before being pampered).

I learned proper function of a firearm at an early age, but perhaps its time to train a little more finesse. Thanks for all the comments, and it is good to know that my weapon is not the only one that functions this way. I have lots of friends with "wondernine's" but no other Glocks to check function with.

~LT

Don't think there's much you can damage on your glock reloading it that way, but I would be concerned about chambering round in this fashion. Either You want the round in the chamber and then you release slide proper way while pointing the gun in safe direction or you don't wanna round in the chamber and then accidentally loading it would be dangerous. When it happens to me every once a while and I'm not happy about it when it happens

On the side note I have seen some pinheads reloading their AR15 in similar way - while they have BCG locked in back, they load fresh mag and then hit the buttstock or worse, slam the rifle butt on the ground to release bolt and chamber round ... looks very cool...

thats when I usually leave range ...

roman3 · May 7, 2010, 12:14 PM

I attended glock armorer's class at glock inc in Georgia on Tuesday. The instructor made it very clear that this was (while not designed specifically) a very common occurance based on the tolerences of the slid stop.

So it is not a defect and it is nothing to worry about. In a speed reload it might even be a huge +.

They did make it clear that you should not drop a single round directly into the chamber and then let the slide and extractor claw ride over it.

Back in the day FLETC (fed academy in Glynco) used to train certain agents to load a single round this way but no longer do.

.357SIG · May 7, 2010, 01:21 PM

+1 on the extractor issue. The only guns I've owned that allow chamber loading are the Beretta 92/96 series.

Badness · May 7, 2010, 04:00 PM

glocks aren't the only guns that do this. S&W m&p's do it as well. In fact, it is a method of reload that is taught by the magpul guys in "Art of the Dynamic Handgun"

If you insert a mag and slam it in putting pressure at a 45 degree angle towards the front of the gun, it will slam forward pretty easily. If you slam it in at a direct 90 degree, then it will take a lot more force.

I've actually tried this at the range and was able to reload like this 3 or 4 times, every time, with ease.

BCOWANWHEELS · May 7, 2010, 09:56 PM

yep installing them too hard........

Chesster · May 7, 2010, 10:23 PM

Ditto, this occurs frequently with my 19s

evan1293 · May 7, 2010, 10:35 PM

I can usually get any of my semi autos to do this. Even an M4, if you slap the buttstock down it will drop the bolt. All that's really going on is the inertia from the strike bonces the slide / bolt from the catch.

B18C5-EH2 · May 8, 2010, 11:06 AM

Sorry to expand upon an off-topic remark, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by roman 3

They did make it clear that you should not drop a single round directly into the chamber and then let the slide and extractor claw ride over it.

Man I've got a friend who would load his pistols that way rather than chamber a round, drop the mag, and add the extra round for full +1 carrying capacity. When I first got my Glock he did exactly what you're describing, and even with me not knowing anything about guns at the time I asked him if he was supposed to do that. He told me he'd been loading his pistols that way for years, but I did not like it. He did the same with a Kahr Arms pistol and I had to point out to him that it very specifically states not to do that as it will break the extractor.

He has since stopped doing this in any of his pistols.

Back on topic:

My Glock 39 with +1 Pearce Grip mag extensions already takes a pretty firm bump to seat he magazine properly, but it's never caused the slide to slam shut, chambering the first round.

May 7, 2010, 09:09 AM	#1
LordTio3 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2010 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 850	Glock Volunteers Wanted... I've finally decided that I want more information on an issue, and you Glock owners out there may be able to help me. My carry weapon is a Glock 19 9mm, and the issue in question involves a loading proceedure. When I load magazines into my pistols, I do not do it gingerly. I do it very stoutly. I don't SLAM them in, but if I got a piece of skin between the floorplate and the magwell, a few layers are probably comming off (not often). It is how I was trained to ensure proper magazine seating, and I believe that the muscle memory helps me in hi-stress situations. Now the main question. When I load a magazine with the slide in lock-back position on my 19, with the force that I load the weapon, it causes the slide-stop to disengage; chambering a round. No slide release lever, no sling-shoting: Insert-aim-fire. I can and do make this happen reliably with my weapon and have never seen a problem with it. There is no damage to my pistol or the magazines I use because of this, and I can choose whether or not I want the slide to come forward by how hard I insert the mag with the heel of my hand. Is this technically a malfunction? And to you Glock owners out there with factory slide-release levers, go ahead and give it a try. If you're inside, you may want to use snap-caps in the magazine. Can you get it to work? All things considered, I prefer to have the option of doing it this way. It feels to me like slapping the bolt-release on an AR platform after loading, and I don't have to worry about my fine motor skills durring a stress-reload. Now I don't always do it this way, but I'd say 85-90% of the time I do. My prefered alternative is to insert and slide-release. Thoughts? ~LT __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ- Greek:"Come and take them..." Meaning: Here we peaceably stand as armed and free men, willing to defend that peace, and ready to make war upon anyone who threatens that freedom.

May 7, 2010, 10:07 AM	#3
ElectricHellfire Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,271	Its pretty common. __________________ *Texas, the only State to Have Ever Kicked Another Country's Butt*

May 7, 2010, 10:09 AM	#4
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	I can cause it to happen with any of my Glocks. I've never seen it cause a failure to feed, but then again I don't think it's ideal behavior. I've been able to do it with other pistols over the years too. So it's nothing unique to Glocks. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

May 7, 2010, 10:42 AM	#6
.357SIG Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 1,023	You want to hear about technicality, so don't get mad. You are slamming the mags in WAY too hard. If you are pushing with so much force as to possibly pinch off a piece of skin, you should tone it down. Remember, the magazine isn't the strongest part of the gun, and beating on them can damage both the magazine catch and the polymer stop built on the magazine, as well as the counterparts on the gun itself. Training I've received from various sources has never required more than a good, firm push with the heel of your hand. Additionally, this method is more natural when doing a reload. Having said that, you're just jarring the slide loose with the force of impact. To the slide catch, it is no different than thumbing it down and will not cause any abnormal wear. The other part is that you're relying on it in your practice most of the time. It isn't the best thing to use as a training aid, as it isn't supposed to occur under normal conditions. Last edited by .357SIG; May 7, 2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Added one sentence to end of first paragraph.

May 7, 2010, 10:23 PM	#15
Chesster Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Location: Dixie Posts: 2,538	Ditto, this occurs frequently with my 19s __________________ Chesster Proud NDN "The American Idle" Vote 'Pro-Choice' on 2nd Amendment issues!!!

May 7, 2010, 10:04 AM	#2
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	My Glocks do the same. Not every time, but quite often if I insert the mag briskly.

May 7, 2010, 10:13 AM	#5
LOUcifer Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 228	I would get the same thing when I owned my Block...I can get my M&P's to do that too...my Sig P250 though will do it if I REALLY give it a good push up. I didn't see anything wrong with that at all or think it was a malfunction...I look at it as "convenient"

May 7, 2010, 11:46 AM	#9
.357SIG Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 1,023	Like I said...just technicality. I don't want you to think you have to do it "my way", but since you asked... My only real concern is to do with the training aspect, as that is not a reliable "feature" of your gun to count on when it matters. I will throw my own bump in the road out there to "ram it home", so to speak. At the range, I used to load each magazine with 3 rounds to practice reloading. Over enough time, it became natural to dump the mag after those 3 rounds were fired, and much later on, when I loaded a FULL mag, I dumped it on more than one occasion after only 3 rounds. I NEVER count rounds, just fire until dry, but somehow, my brain knew when to dump it without even thinking about it. What did this teach me? You will ALWAYS fall back on your training and muscle memory. I knew full well that my mag was full, but dumped it anyway. Now, I change up the # of rounds in the mags to keep me from "remembering" when to dump it out. The problem has been fixed. With that in mind, you are likely going to rely on that automatic release of the slide as second nature. When it doesn't happen, you will freeze up for a second, then you're gonna actually have to think about what happened and remedy the situation, all the while being attacked by a person, wild animal, bigfoot, or whatever.

May 7, 2010, 12:14 PM	#11
roman3 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2007 Posts: 1,012	I attended glock armorer's class at glock inc in Georgia on Tuesday. The instructor made it very clear that this was (while not designed specifically) a very common occurance based on the tolerences of the slid stop. So it is not a defect and it is nothing to worry about. In a speed reload it might even be a huge +. They did make it clear that you should not drop a single round directly into the chamber and then let the slide and extractor claw ride over it. Back in the day FLETC (fed academy in Glynco) used to train certain agents to load a single round this way but no longer do.

May 7, 2010, 01:21 PM	#12
.357SIG Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 1,023	+1 on the extractor issue. The only guns I've owned that allow chamber loading are the Beretta 92/96 series.

May 7, 2010, 04:00 PM	#13
Badness Member Join Date: September 27, 2009 Posts: 87	glocks aren't the only guns that do this. S&W m&p's do it as well. In fact, it is a method of reload that is taught by the magpul guys in "Art of the Dynamic Handgun" If you insert a mag and slam it in putting pressure at a 45 degree angle towards the front of the gun, it will slam forward pretty easily. If you slam it in at a direct 90 degree, then it will take a lot more force. I've actually tried this at the range and was able to reload like this 3 or 4 times, every time, with ease.

May 7, 2010, 09:56 PM	#14
BCOWANWHEELS Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: EAST, TN. Posts: 45	yep installing them too hard........

May 7, 2010, 10:35 PM	#16
evan1293 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 783	I can usually get any of my semi autos to do this. Even an M4, if you slap the buttstock down it will drop the bolt. All that's really going on is the inertia from the strike bonces the slide / bolt from the catch.