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Old February 17, 2005, 04:11 PM   #26
Para Bellum
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Steyr Big Bore Scout

How about this:



The .376 Steyr Cartridge
(9.55 x 60 mm)


The .376 Steyr and the big bore Scout should be a perfect cartridge/rifle combination for those folks roaming the woods after moose, elk, or bear, or for those venturing after thin skinned African game. It was decided to go for .375" diameter bullet rather than the .358" of Jeff Cooper's original "Lion Scout" to allow its use in those countries that specify a minimum bullet size of .375 caliber for certain game. The sectional density for a 250 gr .375 bullet is .254 and that of a 270gr bullet is .274.

The .376 Steyr cartridge case is based upon the case of the 9.3 x 64mm Breneke although the case is about 4 mm shorter, making it midway in physical size between the .350 Remington Mag and the .375 H&H as seen below.
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Old February 17, 2005, 04:23 PM   #27
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Any .30+ caliber (.30-06 and up) is considered a reasonable grizzly round for hunting.

The key to remember is that we aren't talking a picked shot on an unaware animal at long range. Hunting utility is secondary.

With defensive shootings we're talking an engagement against an animal that runs at 30 mph, typically on a confined trail at short range in brush. anything other than that and, if you aren't hunting, you have no right to shoot. Think about justifying a shot on a knife wielding human at 50 yds.

In a defensive round you need penetrating power with heavy rounds that can reach brain, break shoulders or punch deep into the vitals through layers of tough hide, fat and muscle.

If you are interested in the dynamics of bear attacks, read "Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance" by Herrero or Kaniut's "Alaska Bear Tales" books.

It is a difficult shot under pressure and is worth practicing.
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Old February 17, 2005, 04:33 PM   #28
Erich
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I remember being in grizzly country and feeling smug about the model 29 I was carrying. Until I glassed a couple of grizzlies FAR away.

Sheesh.

12-ga pump for me in brown/griz country from now on. Loaded with slugs, with another five in loop on the belt. You certainly could do the trick with a single-shot, but I'd spend the extra couple hundred bucks to get a used pump.
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Old February 17, 2005, 04:58 PM   #29
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I do a lot of hiking in the woods and i cary my lever action .35cal marlin rifle. Its small and with my sling it fits snug against my back. I feel confident it will kill anything in the woods here in the southeast. I do not know if it would kill a polar or Kodiak or something like that but if i run into one of those in Tn. i guess its just gods way of telling me its time to go lol.
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Old February 17, 2005, 05:05 PM   #30
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tokarev,

Just like with self-defense rounds, the key isn't killing the thing, it is stopping it or causing it to break off the attack.

If it is a .35 Whelen you're fine as long as you use a bonded or heavy solid bullet. Again, you need the round to penetrate and/or break bone so you need mass and a heavyish bullet that will stay together.
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Old February 17, 2005, 05:23 PM   #31
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Go with a pump gun.........

If it were me........Winchester makes a nice line up of pump 12 gauges..... I think the camp defender can hold 5 or 6. It is short and quick to put into use. I would think and research ammunitions available......and I might think the first shot out of the gun would be 9 (double 00 buck pellets) just don't forget the range of such load vs a happy rifled slug .......... Good luck in your pick but please regard your life worth 300.00 for a good 5 or 6 shots vs the cheap one shot and it's over deal........ Not worth being mauled or killed by a wounded animal......
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Old February 17, 2005, 09:52 PM   #32
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I dunno I like my odds with my browning A-5, pull the trigger and it fires, no pumping, just keep pulling till its empty, sure your gonna have one heck of a sore shoulder and you wont hear for a week but hey your still alive. Just wished mine could fire 3" magnum rounds.
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Old February 17, 2005, 11:40 PM   #33
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How much better would a Dixie Slugs Terminator be over a standard remington/federal game load?
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Old February 18, 2005, 12:41 AM   #34
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Protection From Death By A Bear

Having lived in Alaska almost all my life, and having both heard of bear maulings and been charged by several large grizzlies I would definitly say a single shot anything is a bad idea. I read the posts thru out this thread and there are some good ideas and some not so good. But in my opinion anything .44 mag or bigger in a pistol is a good choice. As far as a good bullet for the .44 mag goes a bullet that is gonna do the most bone breaking damage and retain its weight, The best bullets I have seen are brass bullets and yes they will penetrate the bears skull unlike other bullets so if you can find some that would be what I would use. Secondly shotguns are very commonly used for bear protection as some others have said the combination of 00 Buck and slugs works well. In my opionon the first shell chambered should be 00 Buck followed by a magazine full of Brenneke rifled slugs. If one shot of the 00 Buck dont scare the bear off then no need to mess around shooting for any reason other than to stop the bears advance at that point you want to do the most damage possible before the bear unleashes on you. If you get the chance read Alaska Bear Tales very enlightening. Hope this helps. If I can find a link for the Brass Bullets I will put up a link.
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Old February 18, 2005, 12:55 AM   #35
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Another reason to have quick follow up shots available...
what if the bears 'significant other'is close at hand??
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Old February 23, 2005, 03:25 PM   #36
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Just read some "grizzly survival stories" in Field & Stream Feb 05 issue while at the dentist today, which might be of interest to you.
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Old February 23, 2005, 07:02 PM   #37
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get an m870 express magnum synthetic, magnum means more powerful 3 1/4 inch rounds and synthetic will last the elements, then get an 18 inch barrel and a sling, should run you about 400-450 new and maybe 300 used, seems worth it to me
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Old February 24, 2005, 11:21 AM   #38
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Have to agree that a single shot isn't the best idea, however it was single shots that eventually wiped out the grizzly population from the lower 48. Although some of those folks paid dearly for it.
Anyways, my advice is upgrade to a short barreled pump. As for ammo, I haven't found anything better than the Original 1 1/8 oz Brenneke slug. Don't get the KO or the newer slug w/the plastic wad. They don't penetrate as well. Foster style slugs are too fragile and fold up too easily. Sabot slugs are worthless unless you have a rifled barrel or choke tube to shoot them out of.
I had to kill a bear here year before last. He wasn't that big, only about 350 lbs. I hit him a little high in the shoulder at about 40 paces. He dropped on the spot, stretched out and died. I ran up and did a quick head shot, but it wasn't necessary. The slug broke through both shoulders and kept going acting similar to a hard cast bullet. A Brenneke would have no problem punching into the vitals on a full grown bear. I've crawled around in the alders looking for bears, loaded up with nothing but Brennekes and have felt perfectly comfortable doing so.
One thing I've learned is that wet bear hide is like body armor. Neither slugs or non-premium bullets penetrate very well when they are wet, especially if they have been in the water for a while. They require multiple shots to put down.
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Old February 24, 2005, 02:26 PM   #39
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A single shot is better than nothing

A pump gun with Brenneke's is better than anything.
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