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Old February 1, 2010, 10:11 AM   #1
gunner4391
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Under 21 pistol purchase

Ok, I'm having a hard time understanding this...aparently, its possible for someone under the age of 21 to own a pistol in florida legally as long as they don't buy it from an ffl. Does that mean that someone under 21 could trade for a pistol on a website such as this or even purchase one from someone off a site like this?
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Old February 1, 2010, 11:16 AM   #2
NavyLT
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Yes, so long as the seller is also a Florida resident. You are SOL buying from an out of state resident, because the handgun would have to be transferred via an FFL and you would have to be 21.

You can also receive a handgun as a gift from another Florida resident.

All of this is assuming you are 18 or over. Federal law prohibits private sales/gifts to those under 18, regardless of state residency.
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Old February 1, 2010, 02:14 PM   #3
knight0334
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Federal law only regulates commercial transfers and interstate transfers, which creates a 21yo requirement.

Since FL doesn't regulate it further for private transfers, those who are FL's lawful age to possess, which is 18yo, may buy/sell/trade/barter privately owned handguns from other FL residents.

Thats how someone 18 to <21 years old in Florida can come to own a handgun. ..private transfer.
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Old February 1, 2010, 03:10 PM   #4
roge
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Would private transfer aid in bad guys in obtaining guns?
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Old February 1, 2010, 03:12 PM   #5
NavyLT
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Would private transfer aid in bad guys in obtaining guns?
Nope.
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Old February 1, 2010, 03:41 PM   #6
roge
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NavyLt, so then private transfers (selling) would only take place with someone you know very well? I not, then how would the transferer know the transferee's history? No offense meant.
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Old February 1, 2010, 03:59 PM   #7
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I understand roge. Time and time again it has been proven that when a prohibited person obtains a gun, they did it from a person who knew they were providing a gun to a prohibited person.

The law says you can have no reasonable belief or knowledge they are a prohibited person. For me, I request to see an ID such as military ID, driver's license or state ID card. I then require a bill of sale which lists the person's name, the amount of money, the make/model/serial number of the gun, the date and both our signatures. The buyer signs for receipt of my gun and I sign a receipt for their money. I figure that if the person is willing to show me an ID and sign a receipt for the gun they are probably not prohibited.

Also, if they are showing an interest in a gun, they will usually have a reasonable reason to be looking for that particular gun.

The problem is that regarding guns, the stock answer by the anti-gun community is to ban guns, or make transactions in guns to be laborious. But let's put that in prospective. How many persons on this country's highways get killed by drunk drivers. Yet do you hear people clammering for banning alcohol or banning cars? Do you hear people clammering for background checks to be required in order to buy a car or get a driver's license? NO.

So why are guns different? Why don't we do the same thing with criminal gun possession that we do with drunk drivers? Why don't we convict the criminals? Why do we keep letting career criminals out of prison? Why don't we deal with the criminals instead of blaming the gun, which can do nothing on it's own and has many more legitimate uses than criminals killing people?

Let's put it in prospective - how many people die an alcohol related death every year? Would you say that guns have many more legitimate purposes, such as hunting, target shooting, competitive shooting and self defense than alcohol? What REAL and beneficial purpose does alcohol serve? And yet we don't have near the controls on alcohol sales that we do on gun sales. Why is that?

I am not meaning to pick on you roge, just trying to provide an intelligent answer to your question.
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Old February 1, 2010, 09:45 PM   #8
raimius
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Quote:
Would private transfer aid in bad guys in obtaining guns?
Almost everything is marginal...

Technically, yes. In reality, it accounts for a very small percentage of guns used in crimes. I'm sure there have been a few cases of someone legally transferring a firearm, then the buyer committing a crime or the person unknowingly selling to a criminal. In the first case, the buyer could have legally purchased a firearm from a dealer. The second case is rare, since most criminals buy on the gray/black market (i.e. other bad guys knowingly breaking the law to sell/give other criminals firearms.) The second case is rare, but hard to prevent, since non-dealers cannot access the instant check system.
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Old February 2, 2010, 06:27 AM   #9
blume357
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I have to agree with this....

I've bought a number of guns through face to face / private deals and both the seller and myself were very sure of who we each were and that we were not doing something that could come back and bite us. It's not a hard dance.... you just need the name and address of the person you are selling to or buying from... folks that are going to commit a crime or know they are doing something illegal (felon owning a gun) will not do this.

As for the original post, the problem is I personally would have a problem selling a gun to an individual who is under 21 unless I knew them really really well.
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Old February 2, 2010, 08:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
I've bought a number of guns through face to face / private deals and both the seller and myself were very sure of who we each were and that we were not doing something that could come back and bite us. It's not a hard dance.... you just need the name and address of the person you are selling to or buying from... folks that are going to commit a crime or know they are doing something illegal (felon owning a gun) will not do this.

As for the original post, the problem is I personally would have a problem selling a gun to an individual who is under 21 unless I knew them really really well.


Why would you worry? If they were under 21, but older than 18 they could buy a long gun lawfully to cause any mayhem just the same.

The only things you'd should have real concern for are:
1. is <21yo possession/transfers legal in your state?
2. are private transfers legal?
3. do you have reason to believe he is prohibited from possession due to other reasons(conviction, mental defect, drug use, etc)?
4. do you believe he/she will commit a crime with said weapon?
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Old February 2, 2010, 09:26 AM   #11
USAFNoDak
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Look at the Bigger Picture.

One very big factor involving private purchases that people don't often discuss or even bring up, is how the buyer finds the seller and what are the circumstances around the actual transfer. The seller, if he/she wants to help prevent their gun from getting into the hands of a prohibited person, has many avenues available to figure out if the buyer is legit or not. Of course, I agree that none of them are 100% fool proof. However, a little caution and awareness can go along way.

For instance, if I post a "gun for sale" card at my local gun club and receive a response, I can immediately ask, "Are you a member at _ _ _ _ gun club?" If yes, you can probably feel a little easier about the sale right away. At the very least you could check with the club leadership to see if he's telling the truth. If he says "no", then ask how he became aware of the gun for sale. A little honest questioning should be no problem for someone who is legit and is interested in the gun for lawful purposes. If you get someone who gets uptight or uneasy, then your radar should be on.


If you post an add in a newspaper and receive a response, one would have to be aware of how the potential buyer wants the transfer to occur and where. A few simple questions wouldn't hurt while you have him on the phone. "Are you legally able to purchase a firearm? Are you 18 or older? How will you pay for this? Are you willing to provide name, address, phone number, and a valid ID? I require you to sign a bill of sale with your name, address and phone number. Are you OK with that?"

These are just a few of the methods to try and gain at least some insight into a prospective buyer. Again, nothing is fool proof, but you can at least reduce the risk. If you are a legitimate buyer, why would you object to a few straightforward and honest questions? I'd be prepared for such if you are conducting a private purchase and you are the buyer.
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Old February 2, 2010, 09:36 AM   #12
NavyLT
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Originally Posted by USAFNoDak
These are just a few of the methods to try and gain at least some insight into a prospective buyer. Again, nothing is fool proof, but you can at least reduce the risk. If you are a legitimate buyer, why would you object to a few straightforward and honest questions? I'd be prepared for such if you are conducting a private purchase and you are the buyer.
My limits as a buyer are: I won't let you write down my SSN or my DL number. You can see my ID, but not copy it or write down the identifying numbers. I won't buy from someone who requires to see a Concealed Pistol License (that's WA name for it). I did not pay for my CPL to prove that I have a background check and I don't believe in restricting private sales to require background checks.

Other than that, name, address, phone number are fine - I am in the phone book anyway and it matches my ID/Driver's License. Signing a receipt/bill of sale is fine too.
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Old February 2, 2010, 10:16 PM   #13
Webleymkv
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As far as federal law is concerned, no one under the age of 21 can legally buy a handgun from an FFL. However, purchases from a private party or recieving a handgun as a gift are legal so long as the recieving party is not otherwise prohibited from posessing a handgun (i.e. has a felony or violent misdemeanor or certain psychiatric issues on their record). It should be noted, however, the difference between a gift and a straw purchase. An example of a straw purchase would be giving the money for the gun to an older person so that they can purchase the gun and give it to you. Straw purchases are illegal.

With regards to criminals getting guns through private sales: while it is theoretically possible, the actual percentage of crime gun obtained this way is ridiculously small. More popular methods for obtaining guns by crimnals are theft and straw purchases. Federal law prohibits someone from selling or giving a gun to someone who they have reason to believe may be prohibited from having it. Because of this, most of us are very careful about who we will sell a gun to and many of us require some sort of credentials such as a driver's lisence or handgun carry lisence before selling a gun to someone we don't know very well.

Personally, I will only sell a gun to someone that I know very, very well or through consignment at my local FFL.
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Old February 3, 2010, 09:44 PM   #14
USAFNoDak
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Webleymkv:
Quote:
With regards to criminals getting guns through private sales: while it is theoretically possible, the actual percentage of crime gun obtained this way is ridiculously small. More popular methods for obtaining guns by crimnals are theft and straw purchases.
There are numerous sources of stats out there which back up your claim. Most criminals get their guns "illegally" from their friends, fellow gang bangers, and "designated straw" purchasers. The number of criminals who buy guns from honest gun owners is, as you say, rediculously small. Good post.
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Old February 6, 2010, 08:22 AM   #15
blume357
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In all honesty I have never sold a gun... but I've bought a lot.

and many were private sales. I have never had one qualm with the seller writing down my address, DL number and even CWP #.

If I give them mine then they are going to give me theirs though.

My only concern with selling a gun to someone under 21 was the chances of me knowing them are slim to none. and the second problem is I do know how stupid I was between the ages of 17 and 23.... and 'stupid' is being easy on myself. that dern testosterone is some more trouble some stuff.
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Old April 30, 2010, 01:22 AM   #16
roge
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Private gun sale transfer information

Thank you all for the valuable information on this topic. The knowledge obtained is priceless. My special thanks to NavyLT for his concern shown that I really understand the information he so kindly passed on to me. Please excuse my belated response. I know it's an old thread, so I will not feel offended if Staff Moderator does not post.
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Old May 1, 2010, 09:11 AM   #17
Eskimo
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I understand roge. Time and time again it has been proven that when a prohibited person obtains a gun, they did it from a person who knew they were providing a gun to a prohibited person.
I have sold at least ten guns to people without even getting a name. Most gun enthusiasts probably have.
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