Testing Powders/Bullet Question

annimus2 · September 7, 2013, 01:24 PM

Good Afternoon all,

I decided I wanted to test some handloads with different powders and bullet weights to see what my gun likes best so that I can develop my own round.

As we all know there is a shortage on bullets/brass which is where my question will be coming from.

I already have .40 S&W brass once fired and twice fired. I also have Hornady 180gn Flat Nose bullets.

I have speer hollow points and hornady xtp's on backorder, but who knows when they will come in.

Here's the question: Do you think i could test my powders with my hornady 180gn flat nose bullets? Will there be a huge difference in velocities with the 180gn hollow points?

My thought is there wont be a MAJOR difference, maybe a slight difference.

Should I wait for the hollow points or run my tests on the cheaper bullets i already have?

Thanks guys!

spacecoast · September 7, 2013, 02:08 PM

As long as they are both jacketed (or both lead) bullets of the same diameter your thinking should be fine. Yes, you could get variations from the different COLs of the two bullets, but they should be minor.

annimus2 · September 7, 2013, 02:20 PM

That is what i thought.

Thanks!

Rifleman1776 · September 7, 2013, 02:27 PM

Testing is for pressure and safety considerations.
Those two are close enough to tell you if your loads are OK or otherwise.

Nick_C_S · September 7, 2013, 07:15 PM

Most loaders do this.

Load with a less expensive (or more available) slug of a similar type to find a good recipe, then transition that recipe to the "real" bullet you want to load.

I happen to be doing the same thing right now: I'm loading 180g FP's to transition to Speer GDHP's. This is for 10mm in my case. (It's slow going because I have a lot of other "pots on the stove" right now.)

There are a couple cautions to this practice: First, you must be certain the two different bullets are similar enough to be considered "apples to apples," so to speak.

The other - and more important caution - is to not load near the top of the pressure scale, and THEN make the transition. Make the transition well before that point. Because no matter how apples to apples the two bullets are; they are indeed different. The object of this practice is to get the recipe in the ballpark with the substitute bullets to save the use of the more valuable bullets for the fine tuning of the recipe and the end product.

rwsmith · September 7, 2013, 10:56 PM

I would use bullets of similar weight but the profile of the bullets (essentially the amount of the jacket in contact with the barrel) can cause differences as well as the sectional density and flight path of the bullet. But I would see no danger in doing so if you are like me and just have to have something to shoot.

annimus2 · September 8, 2013, 12:05 AM

All great info. Thank you all...

My strategy is like what nick cs said. I'm going to use my cheaper more available bullets to find a good recipe and when I get my other bullets I will fine tune the recipe.

Thanks again all!!

NWPilgrim · September 8, 2013, 01:28 AM

This is one nice feature of the modern design of the .40S&W, that the most common FMJ bullet style is very similar in profile to the common hollowpoint. I undeerstand the deision to do that was simply to keep the COL of the .40 the same as the 9mm Luger, but it is happy coincidence that it works well for reloaders.

Jim243 · September 8, 2013, 02:27 AM

As stated before, the profile of the bullet will determine the amount of jacket and the quality will determine the thickness of copper, which will have an effect on how the bullet will preform under each load of powder.

Do not be surprised that one load may do well but when transferred to a different bullet, will work poorly.

You need to check the load data for each bullet and see if they are close enough that you can do your experiment.

Good luck.
Jim

annimus2 · September 8, 2013, 06:04 AM

Thanks jim

Hammerhead · September 8, 2013, 02:21 PM

I would set it up so that you have the same seating depth for both bullets, that is the base of each bullet is in the same place. That will help insure that pressures and velocities are similar.
If the XTP bullet is .020" longer than the flat point bullet, then the XTP loaded cartridge should be .020" longer than the flat point cartridge.

annimus2 · September 8, 2013, 02:33 PM

Hammerhead thanks for that response. That makes sense and I appreciate the input

Nick_C_S · September 8, 2013, 05:12 PM

Absolutely Hammerhead - Maintaining the same seating depth is most critical for keeping the pressures similar between the two different bullets.

September 7, 2013, 01:24 PM	#1
annimus2 Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 28	Testing Powders/Bullet Question Good Afternoon all, I decided I wanted to test some handloads with different powders and bullet weights to see what my gun likes best so that I can develop my own round. As we all know there is a shortage on bullets/brass which is where my question will be coming from. I already have .40 S&W brass once fired and twice fired. I also have Hornady 180gn Flat Nose bullets. I have speer hollow points and hornady xtp's on backorder, but who knows when they will come in. Here's the question: Do you think i could test my powders with my hornady 180gn flat nose bullets? Will there be a huge difference in velocities with the 180gn hollow points? My thought is there wont be a MAJOR difference, maybe a slight difference. Should I wait for the hollow points or run my tests on the cheaper bullets i already have? Thanks guys!

September 7, 2013, 07:15 PM	#5
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Most loaders do this. Load with a less expensive (or more available) slug of a similar type to find a good recipe, then transition that recipe to the "real" bullet you want to load. I happen to be doing the same thing right now: I'm loading 180g FP's to transition to Speer GDHP's. This is for 10mm in my case. (It's slow going because I have a lot of other "pots on the stove" right now.) There are a couple cautions to this practice: First, you must be certain the two different bullets are similar enough to be considered "apples to apples," so to speak. The other - and more important caution - is to not load near the top of the pressure scale, and THEN make the transition. Make the transition well before that point. Because no matter how apples to apples the two bullets are; they are indeed different. The object of this practice is to get the recipe in the ballpark with the substitute bullets to save the use of the more valuable bullets for the fine tuning of the recipe and the end product. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 7, 2013, 10:56 PM	#6
rwsmith Member Join Date: October 28, 2012 Posts: 21	The difference in profile I would use bullets of similar weight but the profile of the bullets (essentially the amount of the jacket in contact with the barrel) can cause differences as well as the sectional density and flight path of the bullet. But I would see no danger in doing so if you are like me and just have to have something to shoot.

September 8, 2013, 12:05 AM	#7
annimus2 Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 28	Re: Testing Powders/Bullet Question All great info. Thank you all... My strategy is like what nick cs said. I'm going to use my cheaper more available bullets to find a good recipe and when I get my other bullets I will fine tune the recipe. Thanks again all!!

September 8, 2013, 01:28 AM	#8
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	This is one nice feature of the modern design of the .40S&W, that the most common FMJ bullet style is very similar in profile to the common hollowpoint. I undeerstand the deision to do that was simply to keep the COL of the .40 the same as the 9mm Luger, but it is happy coincidence that it works well for reloaders. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 7, 2013, 02:08 PM	#2
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	As long as they are both jacketed (or both lead) bullets of the same diameter your thinking should be fine. Yes, you could get variations from the different COLs of the two bullets, but they should be minor.

September 7, 2013, 02:20 PM	#3
annimus2 Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 28	That is what i thought. Thanks!

September 7, 2013, 02:27 PM	#4
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Testing is for pressure and safety considerations. Those two are close enough to tell you if your loads are OK or otherwise.

September 8, 2013, 02:27 AM	#9
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	As stated before, the profile of the bullet will determine the amount of jacket and the quality will determine the thickness of copper, which will have an effect on how the bullet will preform under each load of powder. Do not be surprised that one load may do well but when transferred to a different bullet, will work poorly. You need to check the load data for each bullet and see if they are close enough that you can do your experiment. Good luck. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

September 8, 2013, 06:04 AM	#10
annimus2 Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 28	Re: Testing Powders/Bullet Question Thanks jim

September 8, 2013, 02:21 PM	#11
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	I would set it up so that you have the same seating depth for both bullets, that is the base of each bullet is in the same place. That will help insure that pressures and velocities are similar. If the XTP bullet is .020" longer than the flat point bullet, then the XTP loaded cartridge should be .020" longer than the flat point cartridge.

September 8, 2013, 02:33 PM	#12
annimus2 Member Join Date: August 3, 2013 Posts: 28	Re: Testing Powders/Bullet Question Hammerhead thanks for that response. That makes sense and I appreciate the input

September 8, 2013, 05:12 PM	#13
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Absolutely Hammerhead - Maintaining the same seating depth is most critical for keeping the pressures similar between the two different bullets. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association