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January 26, 2015, 12:00 PM | #26 |
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"Unless you have a Walker, your looking at a .38 spl comparison. I sure wouldn't take a 40 yard shot on a deer. I'd be hesitant at 25 yards."
It all depends on the powder you use. Swiss, Olde Eynsford, and Triple 7 will all give you much higher velocity than almost any others. Look at the video Mr. Beliveau, the editor for Guns of the Old West Magazine had made comparing standard Goex (3F) to Triple 7 (3F) with reduced loads and mild compression. He was getting nearly 500 ft/lbs with the 220 grn Lee conical and Kaido's 255 grn bullet (modified Lee .45 Colt bullet). And a RB gave him ~375 ft/lbs. Thing is T7 doesn't need to be reduced for safety, nor does it need mild compression when not loading it in cartridges. Nowhere on Hodgdon's site under loading info does it state such. And from the few chronograph results where people have shot Swiss, Olde E, and T7 in side by side comparisons they give very similar velocities when loaded with the same volume of powder. |
January 27, 2015, 03:25 PM | #27 |
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BP Revolvers aren't even legal here. Caliber of the firearms itself must be .50 or larger and single shot only. I have talked to several people here though, that hunt whitetails successfully with single shot pistols. Loaded with .490 round balls. Wouldn't think a .454 would be that much of a difference.
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January 27, 2015, 04:08 PM | #28 |
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May I suggest avoid using the round ball on deer, because if it hits bone --- other than a rib bone --- the round ball will flatten out like a pie plate.
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January 28, 2015, 02:15 PM | #29 |
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Legalities aside, prior to the move west, most BP hunting rifles(Kentucky Long Rifle) were .45 calibre or less. Lot of deer killed in them thar days.
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January 28, 2015, 03:52 PM | #30 | |
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True but those 45 cal balls and slugs were moving a lot faster when they came out of the rifle. .45 cal or larger black powder is legal in Ohio from a rifle, and they do an impressive job at twice the velocity. |
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January 28, 2015, 05:46 PM | #31 |
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A .454 ball moving at 1000fps+ should do the job just fine at bow ranges it seems. The longer range work will be done with the TC Hawken. I just gotta get off my duff and get some T7 or some swiss and see how it does. I watched Mike's 6 part video on the Triple 7, and that was the first time I had heard that it doesn't like to be compressed. For those of you who have fired trip 7 in your Remingtons. What is your loading procedure for this powder?
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January 28, 2015, 05:47 PM | #32 | |
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But rifles aren't the topic, and revolvers are much weaker
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January 28, 2015, 06:04 PM | #33 |
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"True but those 45 cal balls and slugs were moving a lot faster when they came out of the rifle. .45 cal or larger black powder is legal in Ohio from a rifle, and they do an impressive job at twice the velocity."
But they are traveling about the same velocity at 100 yds as the pistol is at the muzzle. Many people state complete passthroughs at 100-125 yds. |
January 28, 2015, 06:06 PM | #34 |
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I heavily compress 3F T7 in both my Remington and Ruger as it's the only way I know they are consistent. I use 30 grns in the Remington with my 170 and 195 grn bullets and 35 grns in my Ruger as these are the more accurate loads.
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January 28, 2015, 07:22 PM | #35 |
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I looked up load data for a .45 cal rifle and at 100 yds it has the energy of a .45 cal cap and ball at 25 yds (319 ft/lbs vs 310).
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January 29, 2015, 09:50 AM | #36 | |
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I'm getting 900 fps from a 148gr +P from .38 snubbie. I'd consider that extermely marginal even for bow ranges. |
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January 29, 2015, 10:49 AM | #37 |
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in the eary 50,s on my dads farm we killed alot of deer in the buckwheat with broadside lung shots out of a old remington .22lr rifle at 50-70 yards(the .22 didn,t spook them) and we could get 3-4 before they would spook. not alot of pass thru,s,but some did and the lung shot deer didn,t go far. eastbank.
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January 29, 2015, 11:24 AM | #38 |
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Sissies. If you aren't hunting with at least a 3" Ordnance Rifle you're just plinking.
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January 29, 2015, 11:34 AM | #39 | |
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Bragging about poaching deer with a .22 rimfire, and using that as an example as to why the OP's choice is ethical is a little over the top. |
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January 29, 2015, 01:20 PM | #40 |
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Yes, all joking aside, you're going to be better off following the law, not just for legality's sake, but for morality's sake. You want to put the sucker down. There's little reason to use an anemic firearm unless you are in a survival situation.
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January 29, 2015, 05:04 PM | #41 |
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It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people that want to hunt with calibers not designed for the game they are after. Sure a round ball of any size will kill a deer...given the velocity to do it! This velocity will not occur using it out of a pistol...period!
Sure a guy can get lucky, but ethics should enter into the equation somewhere. I really expect someone on here someday claim the .17 hmr as a proper deer caliber, given their expert status with it. Deer have been killed with everything from a .22 LR to a Ford F-150, but neither are the proper tool to do it with. |
January 29, 2015, 05:11 PM | #42 |
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i can see you were never a farmer, when deer get into buckwheat field and fight or roll around they break the stems and the buckwheat develop a rust and rots, its not like regular wheat. it was not poaching then or now, its called crop damage controll and the comparison was only to say that lung shots will kill deer size animals quickly even with the lowly .22. if you ate buckwheat pan cakes in the early 50,s maybe thats why. eastbank.
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January 29, 2015, 05:29 PM | #43 |
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I will get ahold of a Lee mold and maybe work up a load with the Conicals, you guys are right the roundball may be a little light. It is still beyond me how a 147 grain ball moving at 1000 fps and 300 ft lbs of energy cannot be enough. Anyway I have a press I can load the cylinders off the gun to save modifying the pistol. where we hunt around here 75 to 100 yards is your longest shot, many deer are taken within 50 yards. The Hawken will do most of the work for sure, but if one ventures within 30 yards, I just may take it with the '58.
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January 29, 2015, 05:30 PM | #44 |
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Anyone have the part number for the Lee Conical mold?
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January 29, 2015, 05:53 PM | #45 | |
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I killed one with a .440" patched round ball, pushed by 90gr of FFFg from 30 yards ..... but the coyotes found it before I did. |
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January 29, 2015, 06:56 PM | #46 |
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where did you hit that deer, in the tail? TC,s loading chart lists 90grs ff and a 127gr ball at the muzzle, 2003fps and 1140fpe and with you useing fff it would have a higher fps-fpe. that load would have more fps-fpe than a 125gr bullet(1850fps-950fpe) out of a 6" barreled .357 handgun at the muzzle. if you put that .440gr RB thru a deers lungs it will not be very far away, with a easy trail.eastbank.
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January 29, 2015, 09:25 PM | #47 | |
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I had chronographed the load @ a bit over 1850 f/sec. .45 cal flintlock, .440 ball patched with mattress ticking, 90gr of FFFg "Elephant Brand" black powder .... Chronographing that load was ....... problematic: the blast of smoke kept giving me error messages on my Chrony, even shooting several feet back from the end of the 15 foot remote cable. |
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January 29, 2015, 10:33 PM | #48 | |||
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Quote:
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Last edited by MJN77; January 29, 2015 at 10:57 PM. |
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January 30, 2015, 06:36 AM | #49 |
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I'm sure there are lots of stories around about things getting shot with marginal cartridges and dropping on the spot, but there are always exceptions that can be used to justify about anything of this nature. I just don't understand the shooting of an animal with a minimal cartridge or round ball just to prove a guy can do it. Probably some guy out there that can brag about shooting deer in the ear with his .22 Hornet because of his sniper abilities, but it still is not ethical. An animal is not ballistic media and deserves to be taken humanely.
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January 30, 2015, 07:03 AM | #50 | ||
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Quote:
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It has to be done quickly, and preferably with lots of blood spilled In most places a round that weak isn't even legal
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