Do you disclose CCW when stopped by LEO ? - Page 3

imur_huckle_berry · January 15, 2006, 10:49 AM

As of 9/1/05, in Texas, anyone who can legally own a firearm can CC in their vehicle when traveling (even down the street to the grocery store, there are no longer limitations that define "travel"). Now, let's say you do not have a CHL and you are stopped for rolling through the stop sign. When you hand your DL to the LEO, he will not see a CHL when he runs it through. How beneficial would it be for him to know that you are LEGALLY packing? How bad would this turn if Mr. LEO spots the butt of your 1911 sticking up between the seats and you have "kept quiet"? (I totally understand what concealed means, but it COULD happen) Again, as a CHL holder, I am required to disclose, but non-permit holders are not. Too many BGs out there looking to do harm NOT to let him know, if he finds it on his own you may eat some asphalt, and will most definately get covered by HIS CW. If you have nothing to hide, what's the problem?

xnavy · January 15, 2006, 11:04 AM

I live in Texas and it is mandatory to show the officer your license whether you are carrying or not. I will say this everytime I have been pulled over, usually for something stupid like speeding, I have yet to be given a ticket when presenting my CHL with my drivers license. The same thing used to happen when I presented my military ID when I was in the service, most of the time no ticket just a friendly warning. I have never had a problem with an officer and it usually puts them at ease IMHO presenting the CHL with your drivers license.

DasBoot · January 15, 2006, 11:13 AM

Hey Trigger,
If someone belongs to a group that makes up, oh, let's say, 12% of the population, and said group commits approx. 80%+ of the violent crime in the country, wouldn't you expect members of said group to, fairly or not, get more than their fair share of scrutiny from LEOs?

Not to mention shopkeepers, taxi drivers(which I was), banktellers, the general public, etc, etc.
All the more reason to reveal your gun status to an LEO, just so there are no misunderstandings.

Capt. Charlie · January 15, 2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

it's not the first time a thread has ever gone off topic around here

And it won't be the first time a thread gets locked for doing so

.

Gentlemen, stay on topic....please!

If you want to start a thread on racial profiling, do so in the Legal & Political Forum. This is not the place to do so.

trigger happy · January 15, 2006, 01:00 PM

American Indians, Alaska Natives and Hawaiians on their best days don't make up 12% of our population

Harley Quinn · January 15, 2006, 01:35 PM

Thank you for making this thread go longer then I thought it would. Numerous informative responses due to your input.

When I was in Hawaii I don't believe they make up that much of the population anymore. But over on the Island's they are still causing trouble.

I have no idea what the CCW is for Hawaii, but I'll bet it is hard to get.
More Karate experts per square mile over there than any other state. LOL

What happens on the reservations and casinos do they hire anyone else like the rest of the country does or are they just in it for themselves? CCW is it controlled on reservations like the rest of the US or???

If I was on an Indian reservation I would definitly let them know. Talk about attitude. LOL

HQ

pickpocket · January 15, 2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

radshop:
So now a citizen has to earn the right to have a gun by showing The Man that he has the right attitude?

Ummm...no. What I'm saying is that if you don't want extra bull**** to deal with during a freaking traffic stop, then don't bring it on yourself.

Quote:

Trigger Happy:
somebody said something about altering my driving habits to avoid getting pulled over and the tangent went on from there...

And......you're saying that you have a Constitutional right not to alter your driving habits in order to keep from getting pulled over? Good point...

So just make your point: that NO, you won't let the cops know you're carrying unless you have to. End of story.

Pointer · January 15, 2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Do you disclose CCW when stopped by LEO ?

Does a bear sleep in the woods???

markdido · January 15, 2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

But was also told here in Florida (maybe is a local thing and not a state thing) that any time there is a handgun involved in a traffic stop, that the cop has to call for back-up, which usually results in at least another 2 or 3 cars. Quite a spectacle for a minor traffic violation.

Last year, I did my bit for international tourism by rear-ending a carload of British tourists at a stop light.

FHP showed up and asked what happened. I told him "...the light turned yellow, he stopped, I didn't, my fault" and handed him my license and registration, but NOT my CW permit (frankly I didn't think about it) One Trooper, no backup

I work for the local S. O. (non-sworn) but I wasn't wearing anything that identified me as such, nor did I mention it

After about 10 minutes, the trooper got back out of his car, and handed me and my victim an "exchange of information" form.

No ticket and no questions about my permit, although I think in FL, CCW permits are flagged along with the DL.

Dust_Devil · January 15, 2006, 04:45 PM

Not mandatory in Arizona unless LEO asks.

If I was just stopped for a minor traffic violation, I wouldn't bother to volunteer my CCW permit.
If I was stopped for some type of security issue or for some more serious issues, I would then probably let the officer know, without him asking, that I carry concealed for his own comfort where he doesn't overreact later on if he discovers it on his own.
It would all depend on the situation, the mood and the actions of the LEO that would make me decide if I better let him know I am carrying concealed.

AirForceShooter · January 15, 2006, 07:54 PM

Mark:
it's always been a question if your CCW is flagged when a LEO runs your DL.
You should have told him just so the Brits could hear you. That would have been fun.

AFS

outlier · January 15, 2006, 08:59 PM

I live in a state where it is not mandatory to tell the officer you are carrying if you are pulled over (unless they ask). The pistol permit class that I took was taught by two retired officers (relatively recently retired). When this question came up they told us to first of all, do as another poster put it, "alter your behavior" so as not to put yourself in an ugly situation in the first place. Then he told us that if we should, for example, get pulled over for speeding, don't even bring it up. He said that it make things real tense for no reason. BUT if the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle or asks to search you or the vehicle, you'd better let the officer know right away that you have a pistol permit, that you are currently carrying, where it is, etc... Then follow the officer's instructions.
The two times I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to pull out my license. As I pull out my DL, there was no way the officers couldn't see the pistol permit because of the way I carry it in my wallet. Because I was heading someplace where I could not legally carry, I was unarmed both times. Each time the respective officer asked if I was carrying, I said no, they said okay wait there - end of story. (I did get a ticket each time)
My feeling is that I would tell the officer upfront if I was carrying, but I wouldn't go out of my way to bring up my permit if I wasn't. Our instructors said that the permit was not currently linked to our DL, but that would probably change eventually.

LICCW · January 15, 2006, 10:27 PM

I've never been pulled over carrying, heck, I haven't been pulled over in over 10 years (watch-I get pulled over tomorrow) so I can't exactly say what I would do, but it's probably a good idea to inform the officer especially since you are not doing anything wrong. I think it would put the officer at more ease than if he dicovered it himself.

losvaqueros · January 16, 2006, 12:22 AM

I think there shpuld be some kind of designation on your DL about having a carry permit, like it does for a motorcyle lic or eye glasses

last_stand · January 16, 2006, 12:59 AM

thats how it is in MO. right by the DL # it says CCW

azurefly · January 18, 2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losvaqueros

I think there shpuld be some kind of designation on your DL about having a carry permit, like it does for a motorcyle lic or eye glasses.

Why?
I might have a carry permit and not even be carrying.
The bad guy won't have a carry permit but most certainly could be carrying.

Motorcycle license or corrective lens requirement are relevant to the fact that you were operating a motor vehicle on public roads. Having a license to carry a gun, and having the gun on you, are not relevant to being stopped for speeding. Why not require driver's licenses to show that I belong to the NRA, or am a licensed pilot? What if you required people to divulge that they're in the ACLU?

If a felon hands over his license -- and he obviously doesn't have a CCW permit but he does have a handgun on him -- is the license he gives the cop gonna say, "He's carrying a gun!"?

So if the actual bad guys are not going to have something on their info that alerts the cop to the idea that maybe they're carrying guns, what would it benefit the cop if my license said that I, a good guy (by virtue of following the law and getting a license to carry) had such a license? And why should I be forced to have what may amount to a stigma with a given cop? Some cops will be displeased if I'm licensed and carrying, because they oppose that policy. I should have to open myself up to their scorn even though the information has nothing to do with the stop?

The little blip of info on the license card doesn't help the cop at all. He should be going about every single stop in a way that guards his safety. If he gets blase about doing stops, it's time to retire.

-azurefly

Mtnvalley3 · January 18, 2006, 09:35 AM

we are not required to inform the officer, but they will find out of your CCW when they run your DL.

In the carry class I took (taught by a LEO), he advised us that we may wish to keep the info to ourselves unless asked...particularly when stopped by members of one local LEA who are likely to spread-eagle you against the car trunk just to disarm you.

I asked two LEO friends from different agencies, and after initially answering that staying mum might be best, agreed with me that communicating that you're holding and showing permit early on in the stop is probably a good idea. I just think too much could go wrong if the LEO spotted it on his own...and none of that which could go wrong is beneficial to me.

As it happens, I was recently stopped by an officer of the supposedly-overzealous agency over a license plate thing. I informed him when giving him my DL, and he was appreciative and never either asked where my weapon was nor asked for it (though I was maintaining hands on steering wheel).

However- when I had to go to my center console to look for current registration ( I seldom drive that car), he did stop me and ask where the weapon was. When I told him it was in my right front jacket pocket and asked him how he wanted me to proceed...he said to just sit still and he'd retrieve it.

I couldn't believe this, but he then stuck his upper body into my car through the open window to reach across my body for it....leaving him both very vulnerable (off balance, and my hands/arms not visible behind his head). Worse- his service Glock was literally less than a foot from my hand and out of his view as I was turned to accommodate his removal of my gun. I'm a big guy, so it took him several seconds to fish his way into my pocket and get my gun. A good thing it was that I'm a good guy...

I thought about making a helpful suggestion for a safer disarm, but didn't want to be percieved as criticizing his methods- after all, I hadn't been ticketed yet. ;-) I tried being subtle, and asked him "say, are those Truglo TFO's with the tritium, or just fiber?" (the sights on his Glock), hoping that the situation might dawn on him...

All this occurred before his backup got there...and THAT guy gave me that vibe that if it was his stop, he'd not only prone me out in case I was carrying a BUG, but break out the rubber gloves to check Very Thoroughly.

38SnubFan · January 18, 2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

38 Snub--both of your stats are wrong and lower and if adjustment is made for the poverty factor the rate is far closer.

Sorry, I'm just going by the information I was given a while back. I'd be more than grateful for more correct and up-to-date information, as the numbers I've posted to seem startling - even to me!

-38SnubFan

craigntx · January 18, 2006, 08:10 PM

if you aint packin you dont have to tell em you have a chl
but theyre gonna find out if they call you in

junkman6970 · January 18, 2006, 08:27 PM

You don't have to say anything here in my state of Missouri, But I have been stopped and handed both my CCW and the driver's license and it went well, he ask where it was, went back to his car and said ok, have a good day and then asked what caliper and I told him. and away we go

Optical Serenity · January 19, 2006, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Absolutely...whether required by law or not. I am a responsible, courteous carryer and do not with to do anything to contribute to the image of gun owners as potential loonies

+1

As an officer in a state (GA) that does NOT require you to tell me, I do have to say that I very much appreciate it. Actually, it also says a lot about you. Most people with a GA firearms permit are good law abiding citizens. In fact, I don't remember the last time I issued a ticket to someone who handed me one.

Northslope Nimrod · January 19, 2006, 12:04 PM

I acutally work closely with Law Enforcement and I find that if I tell them I am carrying and who I am in the same sentence it gets me out of tickets.
By telling them who I am....it explains "WHY" I carry and doesn't come across as me trying to get out of a ticket.

The discussion often leads to one of firearms.

guntotin_fool · January 19, 2006, 01:09 PM

heck yeah i tell,

simple reason, I drive for a living, my ticket per traffic stop has gone from about 1 for every three stops, to 1 in the last 12 or thirteen stops over the last five years. I do drive over the limit, i admit it, but i am not blasting thru traffic and weaving but at those groups stops where everyone in a caravan (group of cars, not the dodge minivan) is pulled over, I get a look and then the wave.

What is different between me now and then,? Nothing but that little plastic card i hand over with my license.

January 15, 2006, 10:49 AM	#51
imur_huckle_berry Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 102	Another view As of 9/1/05, in Texas, anyone who can legally own a firearm can CC in their vehicle when traveling (even down the street to the grocery store, there are no longer limitations that define "travel"). Now, let's say you do not have a CHL and you are stopped for rolling through the stop sign. When you hand your DL to the LEO, he will not see a CHL when he runs it through. How beneficial would it be for him to know that you are LEGALLY packing? How bad would this turn if Mr. LEO spots the butt of your 1911 sticking up between the seats and you have "kept quiet"? (I totally understand what concealed means, but it COULD happen) Again, as a CHL holder, I am required to disclose, but non-permit holders are not. Too many BGs out there looking to do harm NOT to let him know, if he finds it on his own you may eat some asphalt, and will most definately get covered by HIS CW. If you have nothing to hide, what's the problem? __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ It's funny until someone loses an eye...........then it's hilarious! Huck

January 15, 2006, 01:00 PM	#55
trigger happy Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Location: Pensacola Posts: 759	American Indians, Alaska Natives and Hawaiians on their best days don't make up 12% of our population __________________ "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass" Admiral Yamamoto "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

January 15, 2006, 01:35 PM	#56
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	Trigger Happy Thank you for making this thread go longer then I thought it would. Numerous informative responses due to your input. When I was in Hawaii I don't believe they make up that much of the population anymore. But over on the Island's they are still causing trouble. I have no idea what the CCW is for Hawaii, but I'll bet it is hard to get. More Karate experts per square mile over there than any other state. LOL What happens on the reservations and casinos do they hire anyone else like the rest of the country does or are they just in it for themselves? CCW is it controlled on reservations like the rest of the US or??? If I was on an Indian reservation I would definitly let them know. Talk about attitude. LOL HQ

January 15, 2006, 08:59 PM	#62
outlier Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Posts: 47	Infoming of carry I live in a state where it is not mandatory to tell the officer you are carrying if you are pulled over (unless they ask). The pistol permit class that I took was taught by two retired officers (relatively recently retired). When this question came up they told us to first of all, do as another poster put it, "alter your behavior" so as not to put yourself in an ugly situation in the first place. Then he told us that if we should, for example, get pulled over for speeding, don't even bring it up. He said that it make things real tense for no reason. BUT if the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle or asks to search you or the vehicle, you'd better let the officer know right away that you have a pistol permit, that you are currently carrying, where it is, etc... Then follow the officer's instructions. The two times I was pulled over for speeding I was asked to pull out my license. As I pull out my DL, there was no way the officers couldn't see the pistol permit because of the way I carry it in my wallet. Because I was heading someplace where I could not legally carry, I was unarmed both times. Each time the respective officer asked if I was carrying, I said no, they said okay wait there - end of story. (I did get a ticket each time) My feeling is that I would tell the officer upfront if I was carrying, but I wouldn't go out of my way to bring up my permit if I wasn't. Our instructors said that the permit was not currently linked to our DL, but that would probably change eventually.

January 18, 2006, 09:35 AM	#67
Mtnvalley3 Junior Member Join Date: November 19, 2005 Posts: 4	In TN... we are not required to inform the officer, but they will find out of your CCW when they run your DL. In the carry class I took (taught by a LEO), he advised us that we may wish to keep the info to ourselves unless asked...particularly when stopped by members of one local LEA who are likely to spread-eagle you against the car trunk just to disarm you. I asked two LEO friends from different agencies, and after initially answering that staying mum might be best, agreed with me that communicating that you're holding and showing permit early on in the stop is probably a good idea. I just think too much could go wrong if the LEO spotted it on his own...and none of that which could go wrong is beneficial to me. As it happens, I was recently stopped by an officer of the supposedly-overzealous agency over a license plate thing. I informed him when giving him my DL, and he was appreciative and never either asked where my weapon was nor asked for it (though I was maintaining hands on steering wheel). However- when I had to go to my center console to look for current registration ( I seldom drive that car), he did stop me and ask where the weapon was. When I told him it was in my right front jacket pocket and asked him how he wanted me to proceed...he said to just sit still and he'd retrieve it. I couldn't believe this, but he then stuck his upper body into my car through the open window to reach across my body for it....leaving him both very vulnerable (off balance, and my hands/arms not visible behind his head). Worse- his service Glock was literally less than a foot from my hand and out of his view as I was turned to accommodate his removal of my gun. I'm a big guy, so it took him several seconds to fish his way into my pocket and get my gun. A good thing it was that I'm a good guy... I thought about making a helpful suggestion for a safer disarm, but didn't want to be percieved as criticizing his methods- after all, I hadn't been ticketed yet. ;-) I tried being subtle, and asked him "say, are those Truglo TFO's with the tritium, or just fiber?" (the sights on his Glock), hoping that the situation might dawn on him... All this occurred before his backup got there...and THAT guy gave me that vibe that if it was his stop, he'd not only prone me out in case I was carrying a BUG, but break out the rubber gloves to check Very Thoroughly.

January 15, 2006, 11:04 AM	#52
xnavy Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 393	I live in Texas and it is mandatory to show the officer your license whether you are carrying or not. I will say this everytime I have been pulled over, usually for something stupid like speeding, I have yet to be given a ticket when presenting my CHL with my drivers license. The same thing used to happen when I presented my military ID when I was in the service, most of the time no ticket just a friendly warning. I have never had a problem with an officer and it usually puts them at ease IMHO presenting the CHL with your drivers license.

January 15, 2006, 11:13 AM	#53
DasBoot Junior member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 700	Hey Trigger, If someone belongs to a group that makes up, oh, let's say, 12% of the population, and said group commits approx. 80%+ of the violent crime in the country, wouldn't you expect members of said group to, fairly or not, get more than their fair share of scrutiny from LEOs? Not to mention shopkeepers, taxi drivers(which I was), banktellers, the general public, etc, etc. All the more reason to reveal your gun status to an LEO, just so there are no misunderstandings.

January 15, 2006, 04:45 PM	#60
Dust_Devil Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 235	Not mandatory in Arizona unless LEO asks. If I was just stopped for a minor traffic violation, I wouldn't bother to volunteer my CCW permit. If I was stopped for some type of security issue or for some more serious issues, I would then probably let the officer know, without him asking, that I carry concealed for his own comfort where he doesn't overreact later on if he discovers it on his own. It would all depend on the situation, the mood and the actions of the LEO that would make me decide if I better let him know I am carrying concealed.

January 15, 2006, 07:54 PM	#61
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	Mark: it's always been a question if your CCW is flagged when a LEO runs your DL. You should have told him just so the Brits could hear you. That would have been fun. AFS

January 15, 2006, 10:27 PM	#63
LICCW Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2005 Posts: 266	I've never been pulled over carrying, heck, I haven't been pulled over in over 10 years (watch-I get pulled over tomorrow) so I can't exactly say what I would do, but it's probably a good idea to inform the officer especially since you are not doing anything wrong. I think it would put the officer at more ease than if he dicovered it himself.

January 16, 2006, 12:22 AM	#64
losvaqueros Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Southern Middle Tennessee Posts: 49	I think there shpuld be some kind of designation on your DL about having a carry permit, like it does for a motorcyle lic or eye glasses

January 16, 2006, 12:59 AM	#65
last_stand Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Posts: 69	thats how it is in MO. right by the DL # it says CCW

January 18, 2006, 08:10 PM	#69
craigntx Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: galveston tx Posts: 249	if you aint packin you dont have to tell em you have a chl but theyre gonna find out if they call you in

January 18, 2006, 08:27 PM	#70
junkman6970 Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: missouri Posts: 31	Disclosure to LEO You don't have to say anything here in my state of Missouri, But I have been stopped and handed both my CCW and the driver's license and it went well, he ask where it was, went back to his car and said ok, have a good day and then asked what caliper and I told him. and away we go

January 19, 2006, 12:04 PM	#72
Northslope Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2004 Posts: 465	Yes I acutally work closely with Law Enforcement and I find that if I tell them I am carrying and who I am in the same sentence it gets me out of tickets. By telling them who I am....it explains "WHY" I carry and doesn't come across as me trying to get out of a ticket. The discussion often leads to one of firearms.

January 19, 2006, 01:09 PM	#73
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	heck yeah i tell, simple reason, I drive for a living, my ticket per traffic stop has gone from about 1 for every three stops, to 1 in the last 12 or thirteen stops over the last five years. I do drive over the limit, i admit it, but i am not blasting thru traffic and weaving but at those groups stops where everyone in a caravan (group of cars, not the dodge minivan) is pulled over, I get a look and then the wave. What is different between me now and then,? Nothing but that little plastic card i hand over with my license.