Reloading order question

[KBrun]

The recent thread on duds has gotten me thinking. To preface this I'll say I'm a novice reloader. And by novice I mean to days I've probably loaded about 75 rounds of. 308. So, on with the question.
It seems that many of you will fill each case of a batch with powder, then go back and seat a bullet. This seems to be when people forget the powder one way or another and seat a bullet on a second case. Whst is the reasoning behind charging say 50 cases, then going back to seat 50 bullets. I've been charging a case, seating the bullet, and going to the next one.
Any reason in particular, or is it just a batch method rather then a one off method. Thanks all

[603Country]

I do them one case at a time. That's just my preference.

[PA-Joe]

Processing in batches makes it go faster. Size and deprime 50 put in reloading block casehead up, Prime 50, powder 50 put in reloading block casehead down. Look into all 50 case to see if powder is all at the same level in each case. Then seat 50 bullets to desired COL. Then crime all 50.

This gives you a visual check as to whether there was a powder measure failure.

To get even powder drops you have to be very consistent with how you double tap the handle on the up and down strokes to settle and dislodge all of the powder. If you are doing singles you can't be consistent with the drops. Then again if you are using a trickler to bring each charge up to weight, it doesn't matter.

[Smoke & Recoil]

Both ways work...and eventually, we forget the primer too, REALLY !

[Metal god]

I recently started loading pistol rounds on a single stage press . I could not even fathom how time consuming it would be to size one case change die to flare the case ,prime and charge the case , change the die to seat the bullet then change the die one last time to crimp all for one round .

NO NO NO not going to happen . I size 100 to 200 cases and some times 4 or 5 hundred at a time . I then flare them all and set them aside so they are ready to charge when needed . At this point I'll work in 50rd batches . Prime and charge 50 , seat bullets change die and crimp them all .

I use a separate crimp because not all me crimps are the same so I can adjust easily .

I also size my rifle brass in large batches as well . I'll try to have a few hundred sized , cleaned and ready to go rifle brass at all times .



At a glance I'd say

600 - 308
350 - 223
450 - 9mm
300 - 45acp
70 - 270

All sized for there purpose , cleaned and ready to load

No - 30-30

[jmr40]

I only load rifle cartridges, and not in high volume. Over the years I've accumulated hundreds of 30-06 and 308 cases. I keep them separated by brand and for the first 5-6 loadings by how many times each has been loaded. After that I still separate by brand, but don't worry so much how many times they have been loaded. For plinking loads I use the older brass, I reserve the new, or newer brass for loads used for hunting or when I want best accuracy.

Once I get several hundred empty cases I'll pick a rainy day to deprime and size all of them. It may take all day, but is only a 2-3 time a year job. If a batch needs trimming I'll do that at the same time. Then the next rainy day I'll chamfer the case mouths and prime them. I currently have roughly 500 of each caliber primed and ready to load, about 200 or so of each loaded and ready to shoot and a couple hundred just fired.

When I get ready to load I weigh each charge individually, place a bullet in the case and seat it one at a time. I may only load 10-20 at a setting if experimenting and rarely more than 50 even with well established loads. It doesn't take long this way. If I were loading in greater volume my method wouldn't work. But it does for me.

[condor bravo]

Assuming you are using a powder measure rather than weighing each charge, I would say there is more of a chance of failure to charge if you are using the one at a time method rather than the batch method. I did try the one at a time and caught myself on several occasions almost forgetting to charge. Too easy it seems just to take a primed case and place it into the shell holder for bullet seating, bypassing the powder measure. Using the batch method for loading rifle rounds, charge say 10 cases, individually placing them in a loading block as you go, and then visually examine the 10, using a flashlight if necesssry, seat 10 bullets and repeat the process. If weighing each charge it pretty much speaks for itself that each case will be charged but continue to visually check each 10 round batch, or whatever figure you prefer, before seating.

[KBrun]

Originally Posted by condor bravo

Assuming you are using a powder measure rather than weighing each charge, I would say there is more of a chance of failure to charge if you are using the one at a time method rather than the batch method. I did try the one at a time and caught myself on several occasions almost forgetting to charge. Too easy it seems just to take a primed case and place it into the shell holder for bullet seating, bypassing the powder measure. Using the batch method for loading rifle rounds, charge say 10 cases, individually placing them in a loading block as you go, and then visually examine the 10, using a flashlight if necesssry, seat 10 bullets and repeat the process. If weighing each charge it pretty much speaks for itself that each case will be charged but continue to visually check each 10 round batch, or whatever figure you prefer, before seating.

Good point with the rhythm. I've sat down and loaded 50, but at the time was weighing every charge. When I begin to reload my final load I will be using the thrower and could see myself getting in too much of a rhythm and forgetting.

[michaelcj]

I don't load large quantities [CF Rifle] at one time maybe 25 to 50 rounds. My routine is:

Size and trim all the cases I intend to load

Hand prime [I use a Sinclair]

I use the scoop and trickle with most and hand-weigh each charge
[except the .22 hornet, my RCBS powder measure really likes Lilgun and throws very consistent charges].

Having already set up my seating die…. as I charge each case with powder I go directly to seating the bullet before weighing the next powder charge……

As for Handgun… I still work for a living and the Department supplies all the ammo, duty and practice, that I could possibly shoot up (.45 and.38).

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by Metal god

I recently started loading pistol rounds on a single stage press . I could not even fathom how time consuming it would be to size one case change die to flare the case ,prime and charge the case , change the die to seat the bullet then change the die one last time to crimp all for one round .

NO NO NO not going to happen .

Easy to do on a turret press, especially if it auto-advances the turret head.

Addressing the question at hand:

KBrun is quite correct in surmising that batch loading allows one to batch check for quality control, which as Condor Bravo has observed is natural for batch processing. PA-Joe had described perhaps the most air-tight methods, inverting the case to allow examination of the primers at once, the powder charges' levels after (and before bullet setting and seating).

Design your loading algorithm and your bench as if you were the architect of a factory floor (as, indeed, you are building your own ammo factory). You are your own quality control department as well as production supervisor.

You ask good questions. The answers presented here are manifold. In devising your own answers (which fit your loading style and needs) I hope the reasoning for the answers presented here is useful to you.

Regards,

Lost Sheep

[skizzums]

pistol I do 1-200 at a time, if loading the same charge. because 4 blocks will sit side by side on my table. that way I can see that every case has a charge before I move to the seating step. this only pertains to pistol cases. since my rifles do not use an expander or powder through die, and it's difficult to look down inside, their is no reason to charge them all together. but doing pistol cases on a single stage uses another step, to expand and powder through and then seat a bullet, requires a die change for every single round.

[KBrun]

Well here is my current process:
1.) resize/deprime the batch (typically about 50 brass)
2.) trim, chamfer, inspect the batch
3.) hand prime, and place upside down in reloading tray (primer up)
4.) measure powder and seat bullet 1 at a time, until the batch is over.
At this stage I measure OAL every 5 or so, and weigh more powder charges then I probably need to!

[kilimanjaro]

Batch work is fine, you can do as many or as few as you want.

Inspect the cases,
Prime and resize the cases,
Inspect priming
Powder charge
Check charging by weight or visually
Seat bullets
Final weight checks

What a lot of folks don't realize, is that reloading is a repetitive motion activity, just like installing three nuts on three bolts on an assembly line. You need to get the motions down by the numbers and work the repetitive motion in a repetitive manner. When you don't do that, your muscle memory never kicks in and omissions will be constant.

Example : Charge the case, rest the powder ladle against the neck of the charged case, pull the funnel from charged case and place in neck of cartridge ahead of charged case with powder ladle, and repeat.

I saw a reloading block once with a cribbage pin alongside each case hole. The pin was moved ahead to the next uncharged case after each operation. No missed or double charges.

[mehavey]

Batch method always -- as others have recounted -- for whatever number.
The only real difference is adding two soup bowls.

- All cases go into soup bowl #1 as a batch
- As cases are sized, they go into soup bowl #2 until #1 is empty
- As cases are flared, they go back into soup bowl #1 until #2 is empty
- As cases are primed, they go back into bowl #1
- As cases are filled w/ powder, they come out of Soup bowl #1 and go into the loading block
- When the loading block is full, it goes under a strong light to check common powder levels
- As full cases have bullets seated, they go into the ammo box (or back into bowl #1)*
* IF/when pistol bullets are crimped separately, they go from bowl #1 to the ammo box and done

[T. O'Heir]

"...when people forget the powder one way or another..." Indicates the failure to use one's Mk I Eyeball to visually check for powder.
Been loading everything on a single stage press for eons. Speed is about technique. Like Metal god says, do one step to all your cases, then change dies. Get 'em all to the point they just need powder and bullet. Primers do not go bad. Nor will they start popping off for nor apparent reason. Don't use sandwich/freezer bags myself, but that'd do.
"...two soup bowls..." Too small. Shoe boxes or coffee cans. snicker.

[FITASC]

Whst is the reasoning behind charging say 50 cases, then going back to seat 50 bullets. I've been charging a case, seating the bullet, and going to the next one.

If you ever use a single stage press, you'll understand why things are done in batches.....

[KBrun]

Originally Posted by FITASC

If you ever use a single stage press, you'll understand why things are done in batches.....

I'm currently using a Lee single stage press. Charging the case doesn't require a change to the press so it seemed simpler to complete a case.

[TimSr]

Whatever works for you. I load with a single stage so I'm oviously not changing dies for each round I do. With pistol rounds I have had a handfull of times over the years when I looked across a tray of 50 charged cases and spotted one or two that were not at the same visual level as the others and corrected it before it became a problem. Powder clumping, powder dispensor adjustment not locked in or running near empty, things happen and its easier for me to visually compare as opposed to remembering what it should look like.

[mikld]

Six of one, half dozen of the other. I've done both charging methods, but have settled on picking up a case, charging it and putting it in a loading block (most of the time the primed cases are sitting on the bench in the open). When all cases are charged and in the block, I look in every case, with my MagLight for light, to make sure it's charged. The next step is seating the bullet and, without moving the block full of cases, I pick up a case and glance in the case and put it in the press, then seat the bullet...

Haven't had a squib in 28 years...

[FITASC]

I load with a single stage so I'm oviously not changing dies for each round I do.

Same here - 50 to a block - size/deprime/reprime in one batch, drop powder off the press, then flare with second die, then use third to seat bullet.

[skizzums]

Kbrun, I understand why this seems confusing to you, this is because you are doing rifle only which doesn't save time to batch. You'll understand when you start loading pistol and see what the second step is. Rifle dies: full length die, bullet seating die, possibly a FCD. Pistol: resizing die, expander/powder die, seating/crimp die, possibly an FCD. It's that second die that makes batch powder charging a much faster process, rifle does not usually have this process on a single stage.
Yes, the powder thru is not 100% nessecary, you could charge by hand but your slowing yourself down for no reason. You can still see very easily that your charged before seating, I think it would be easier to accidentally grab an empty case rather than being able to visually confirm that all cases are charged at one time and moving any empties away from the bench making only the possibility of a charged case getting a bullet.

I cannot tell from your posts if you understand this or not.


See if this pic helps. All empties put away, leaving this as the only available brass to seat a bullet on. I think it would be much easier to forget to charge a case before seating if done during the seating process and possibly getting distracted. This leaves almost an impossibility of a squib seeing all the charged cases at once. Again, for pistol only since most bottlenecks are difficult to see inside.

[Dufus]

I drag out the tumbler and throw everything in. Then I resize and deprime. Then throw them back in the tumbler.

They get sorted and stored in ziplocks until I am ready to load.

When ready to load, I do 100 at a time since there is 100 primers in a box and 100 bullets in a box (I even store by cast 100 to a box).

I prime, then powder them, then seat bullets....all the while doing a QC after each step.

Been doing it this way for a long time.

I had a progressive at one time, a Green Machine, but traded it for another Rock Chucker maybe 35 or 40 years ago and been doing everything single stage for a long time.....except shotgun and that's another story.

[KBrun]

Originally Posted by skizzums

Kbrun, I understand why this seems confusing to you, this is because you are doing rifle only which doesn't save time to batch. You'll understand when you start loading pistol and see what the second step is. Rifle dies: full length die, bullet seating die, possibly a FCD. Pistol: resizing die, expander/powder die, seating/crimp die, possibly an FCD. It's that second die that makes batch powder charging a much faster process, rifle does not usually have this process on a single stage.
Yes, the powder thru is not 100% nessecary, you could charge by hand but your slowing yourself down for no reason. You can still see very easily that your charged before seating, I think it would be easier to accidentally grab an empty case rather than being able to visually confirm that all cases are charged at one time and moving any empties away from the bench making only the possibility of a charged case getting a bullet.

I cannot tell from your posts if you understand this or not.


See if this pic helps. All empties put away, leaving this as the only available brass to seat a bullet on. I think it would be much easier to forget to charge a case before seating if done during the seating process and possibly getting distracted. This leaves almost an impossibility of a squib seeing all the charged cases at once. Again, for pistol only since most bottlenecks are difficult to see inside.

Thank you for clarifying that. I have no experience reloading pistol, and as such didn't realize that a sizing step was done at the same time as putting powder in the brasd. This definitely clarifies the batch method, and is understandable now.

[condor bravo]

Skizzums and perhaps others:
Note that the OP's query had nothing to do with speed of batch method loading vs one at a time method. Instead, his point had to do with which method would most likely result in a failure to charge a case, resulting in a dud round (and worse, possibly firing the next round on the top of a stuck bullet). He was referrimg to rifle cartridge loading in particular where normally fewer rounds per batch would be loaded as compared to handgun loading where the loading process would probably be completely different, usually with a progressive press. But at any rate my response was that the batch method for rifle, using a single stage press and carried out properly by visual examination of the charged rounds while still in a loading block before seating, was the least likely to result in an uncharged case.

[skizzums]

Okay. I thought the OP was more just asking why people do it period, when his perception was that it could cause more issues. I was just answering the "why" we do it, and showing a pic to help show why "I" don't believe it would cause a squib scenario. Sorry if I was off course, but I thought my explanation had merit to the OP.

I agree with you that a loading block of charged brass, even rifle, is the safest method, for me anyways. But it is about personal preferences when it comes to rifles because it does not cause inconvenience to do it one way or the other. With pistols batch loading serves a greater purpose than just squib reduction.