Endshake on a Dan Wesson .357Mag

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2012, 04:08 PM

At the last gunshow I attended, I ran across a fellow selling an older used Dan Wesson revolver in .357Mag. While doing a quick checkout, I noticed that there seemed to be a good deal of endshake although the gun didn't appear to have been shot much at all.

What was odd, was that the endshake felt like it was "springy". I could push the cylinder back a significant amount (enough that when looking through the barrel/cylinder gap at a bright light there was an obvious and unmistakable increase in the gap) but it was as if I were pushing against a spring-loaded component and it required effort to get it to move backwards. It would immediately spring foward when I let go of it.

I didn't buy the gun, but I'm not familiar with internal mechanism of the older DW revolvers, and have been wondering since the show if this is somehow normal behavior for them?

Venom1956 · December 1, 2012, 04:30 PM

I believe both my DW have similar traits to the same degree your speaking of I cannot be sure. I always figured it was normal due to the barrel system. you use a shim then when it is removed the cylinder moves forward to tighten the barrel gap further.

It has never concerned me but I would be curious to know why.

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2012, 08:11 PM

Ok, I got a chance to poke around and managed to find some information. Should have known that Mr. Revolver himself, Grant Cunningham would have something to say on the topic.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_...0d2d5-127.html

(Interestingly, the Dan Wesson guns are very robust in terms of their endshake handing; the spring-loading bearing detent at the rear of the frame locates the cylinder at the forward-most position every time, and also serves to absorb a bit of the recoil force of the cylinder.)

So that explains the springy feeling I detected. It doesn't shed much light on how much endshake is allowable in the design, but maybe someone can chime in with more information.

For those who may be wondering what endshake is, and/or how to check out a revolver like you know what you're actually doing, Jim March's checkout thread is a good place to start learning.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57816

hAkron · December 2, 2012, 12:41 AM

There is a spring behind the ball detent, and it is accessible behind a screw, so if the endshake ever got excessive, I guess it could be tuned with a stiffer spring.

wogpotter · December 2, 2012, 09:27 AM

I just checked my 15-2 in .357 for you. Properly set up (0.005~0.006") barrel to cylinder gap gives me about 0.001" spring tensioned endshake unloaded. It actually reduces slightly with (dummy) rounds loaded.

I'm guessing the old owner didn't know how to set the gap & had it too long then brought the ball in the rear forward to try to remove it?

Redhawk5.5+P+ · December 2, 2012, 10:29 AM

Isn't this any easy fix with the proper tools?

wogpotter · December 2, 2012, 12:23 PM

It depends on what caused the problem as much as how to fix it.

If its just the barrel & shroud incorretly gapped than yes. You use a .004 & a .002 feeler gauge (or the .006 one supplied if you have it) the barrel nut wrench, & one of the hex keys attached to the nut wrench (assuming the factory wrench). The gun is stripped to access the adjustment screw for the spring & set corrrectly first, then the barrel correctly inserted & gapped the shroud slipped on & the nut tightened.

But if the frame has been stretched by uber hot loads or something else then it's toast unfortunately.

**JohnKSa** · December 2, 2012, 02:52 PM

The cylinder/barrel gap looked reasonable to me, although I didn't have any feeler gauges on hand.

I guess I'm not following how improperly setting the barrel cylinder gap could allow endshake. Regardless of the size of the gap, if the Dan Wesson design is generally similar to other revolver designs, the cylinder still shouldn't have any significant play along the bore axis. Seems to me that the endshake should be the same whether there's even a barrel installed or not.

I can see how installing the barrel deeply enough could push the cylinder back far enough against the existing play to eliminate it, but wouldn't that prevent the gun from functioning? There would be no barrel/cylinder gap at all since the barrel would have to be in contact with the cylinder to hold it to the rear to eliminate the endshake.

wogpotter · December 2, 2012, 03:55 PM

It's a balancing act between the gap & the spring tension. Both effect each other to some extent thats why the manuals make such a big deal about just touching the barrel when gapping it. Some shoters of DWs even play with the spring tension fo "that little bit extra" even

It could be other things as well, but not having examined it myself I have no way of knowing.

kahrguy · December 2, 2012, 07:25 PM

With my barrels backed off I have some end shack with all mine. Some of that goes away after cartidges are in the chambers. With my barrels set to 3ths and empty chambers it has no persevable shack.

I guy a while back had one that was loose . He bought some shimmimg washers from brownelss and that tighted it right back up.. Look it over again and take a micrometer if you can. If it looks good it probably still worth buy'n. Also besure the cylinder pin is tight.

noelf2 · December 2, 2012, 08:04 PM

I noticed the same thing on my 15-2. Must be normal.

Redhawk5.5+P+ · December 2, 2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

What was odd, was that the endshake felt like it was "springy". I could push the cylinder back a significant amount (enough that when looking through the barrel/cylinder gap at a bright light there was an obvious and unmistakable increase in the gap) but it was as if I were pushing against a spring-loaded component and it required effort to get it to move backwards. It would immediately spring foward when I let go of it.

Did it do that while it was cocked in SA?

**JohnKSa** · December 2, 2012, 08:44 PM

It did it both cocked, and with the hammer down and the trigger held back.

warnerwh · December 4, 2012, 09:58 PM

It is normal. A Dan Wesson has a spring loaded ball in the rear of the cylinder to help keep it in place.. The lockup on a Dan Wesson is imo of the best there is. The guns are proven to be able to digest max loads constantly as well as having superior accuracy as has been shown in silhouette competition. Bottom line I can understand someone being concerned because that kind of play is usually bad. On the Dan Wesson it is part of the design. The best place for Dan Wesson knowledge is: http://www.danwessonforum.com/ A very nice group of people hang out there.

**JohnKSa** · December 5, 2012, 12:34 AM

Well, that's good to know. Wish I had known it during the gun show!

December 1, 2012, 04:08 PM	#1
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	Endshake on a Dan Wesson .357Mag At the last gunshow I attended, I ran across a fellow selling an older used Dan Wesson revolver in .357Mag. While doing a quick checkout, I noticed that there seemed to be a good deal of endshake although the gun didn't appear to have been shot much at all. What was odd, was that the endshake felt like it was "springy". I could push the cylinder back a significant amount (enough that when looking through the barrel/cylinder gap at a bright light there was an obvious and unmistakable increase in the gap) but it was as if I were pushing against a spring-loaded component and it required effort to get it to move backwards. It would immediately spring foward when I let go of it. I didn't buy the gun, but I'm not familiar with internal mechanism of the older DW revolvers, and have been wondering since the show if this is somehow normal behavior for them? __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 1, 2012, 04:30 PM	#2
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	I believe both my DW have similar traits to the same degree your speaking of I cannot be sure. I always figured it was normal due to the barrel system. you use a shim then when it is removed the cylinder moves forward to tighten the barrel gap further. It has never concerned me but I would be curious to know why. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

December 1, 2012, 08:11 PM	#3
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	Ok, I got a chance to poke around and managed to find some information. Should have known that Mr. Revolver himself, Grant Cunningham would have something to say on the topic. http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_...0d2d5-127.html (Interestingly, the Dan Wesson guns are very robust in terms of their endshake handing; the spring-loading bearing detent at the rear of the frame locates the cylinder at the forward-most position every time, and also serves to absorb a bit of the recoil force of the cylinder.) So that explains the springy feeling I detected. It doesn't shed much light on how much endshake is allowable in the design, but maybe someone can chime in with more information. For those who may be wondering what endshake is, and/or how to check out a revolver like you know what you're actually doing, Jim March's checkout thread is a good place to start learning. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57816 __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 2, 2012, 09:27 AM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I just checked my 15-2 in .357 for you. Properly set up (0.005~0.006") barrel to cylinder gap gives me about 0.001" spring tensioned endshake unloaded. It actually reduces slightly with (dummy) rounds loaded. I'm guessing the old owner didn't know how to set the gap & had it too long then brought the ball in the rear forward to try to remove it? __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

December 2, 2012, 12:23 PM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	It depends on what caused the problem as much as how to fix it. If its just the barrel & shroud incorretly gapped than yes. You use a .004 & a .002 feeler gauge (or the .006 one supplied if you have it) the barrel nut wrench, & one of the hex keys attached to the nut wrench (assuming the factory wrench). The gun is stripped to access the adjustment screw for the spring & set corrrectly first, then the barrel correctly inserted & gapped the shroud slipped on & the nut tightened. But if the frame has been stretched by uber hot loads or something else then it's toast unfortunately. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

December 2, 2012, 12:41 AM	#4
hAkron Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 318	There is a spring behind the ball detent, and it is accessible behind a screw, so if the endshake ever got excessive, I guess it could be tuned with a stiffer spring.

December 2, 2012, 10:29 AM	#6
Redhawk5.5+P+ Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2012 Location: NV Posts: 743	Isn't this any easy fix with the proper tools?

December 2, 2012, 02:52 PM	#8
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	The cylinder/barrel gap looked reasonable to me, although I didn't have any feeler gauges on hand. I guess I'm not following how improperly setting the barrel cylinder gap could allow endshake. Regardless of the size of the gap, if the Dan Wesson design is generally similar to other revolver designs, the cylinder still shouldn't have any significant play along the bore axis. Seems to me that the endshake should be the same whether there's even a barrel installed or not. I can see how installing the barrel deeply enough could push the cylinder back far enough against the existing play to eliminate it, but wouldn't that prevent the gun from functioning? There would be no barrel/cylinder gap at all since the barrel would have to be in contact with the cylinder to hold it to the rear to eliminate the endshake. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 2, 2012, 03:55 PM	#9
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	It's a balancing act between the gap & the spring tension. Both effect each other to some extent thats why the manuals make such a big deal about just touching the barrel when gapping it. Some shoters of DWs even play with the spring tension fo "that little bit extra" even It could be other things as well, but not having examined it myself I have no way of knowing. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

December 2, 2012, 07:25 PM	#10
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	With my barrels backed off I have some end shack with all mine. Some of that goes away after cartidges are in the chambers. With my barrels set to 3ths and empty chambers it has no persevable shack. I guy a while back had one that was loose . He bought some shimmimg washers from brownelss and that tighted it right back up.. Look it over again and take a micrometer if you can. If it looks good it probably still worth buy'n. Also besure the cylinder pin is tight.

December 2, 2012, 08:04 PM	#11
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I noticed the same thing on my 15-2. Must be normal. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 2, 2012, 08:44 PM	#13
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	It did it both cocked, and with the hammer down and the trigger held back. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 4, 2012, 09:58 PM	#14
warnerwh Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 329	It is normal. A Dan Wesson has a spring loaded ball in the rear of the cylinder to help keep it in place.. The lockup on a Dan Wesson is imo of the best there is. The guns are proven to be able to digest max loads constantly as well as having superior accuracy as has been shown in silhouette competition. Bottom line I can understand someone being concerned because that kind of play is usually bad. On the Dan Wesson it is part of the design. The best place for Dan Wesson knowledge is: http://www.danwessonforum.com/ A very nice group of people hang out there. __________________ Portland, Or

December 5, 2012, 12:34 AM	#15
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	Well, that's good to know. Wish I had known it during the gun show! __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

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