Double-barrel vs Pump for self-defense ?

Hammer1 · August 22, 2010, 10:23 AM

.

Was looking at a gun store rack yesterday.

There were several self-defense shotguns in the $400 range on the rack.

There were some of the new Stoeger double-barrels with picatinny rails for lasers and such. They also have the barrels ported.

There were several pump actions including Mossberg and Brownings.

For home defense by the typical homeowner, what is the current stage of argument and debate between the short double-barrel shotgun and the pump action ?

Think Clint Smith has said a few positive words and had his picture made with a double-barrel shotgun lately.

.

finz50 · August 22, 2010, 10:24 AM

2 shots or 7.....I prefer the larger capacity of the pump...

EdInk · August 22, 2010, 11:27 AM

Pump.

sakeneko · August 22, 2010, 11:27 AM

We have a Mossberg 500 12-gauge pump-action shotgun, which holds six rounds total when fully loaded with a round in the chamber. Ours has five rounds loaded, because for safety we don't leave a round in the chamber. Besides, hearing somebody pump a shotgun is *intimidating*; maybe any future intruder will decide to leave without further argument.

We added a Knoxx SpecOps stock so that I could shoot the thing without getting a bruise on my shoulder from the kick.

We might never need more than two rounds for self-defense, but then we might, so I prefer what we have to a double-barrel.

redlevel42 · August 22, 2010, 11:46 AM

I have both, as well as single-shots. I feel about as well armed for HD with one as the other. If I were taking doors with a swat team, I would want a pump or a semi. It isn't hard to fire a single-shot shotgun, break it open and reload, and be back on target in just a couple of seconds with a little practice. Best place to practice quick reloads with a double or ss is on a dove field with the birds really swirling in.

ronto · August 22, 2010, 01:40 PM

DB to keep it simple for the inexperienced...All others, it's the pump.

knight0334 · August 22, 2010, 01:56 PM

I prefer a SxS for all purposes. I also prefer a single shot over pumps, semi's, and O/U's. ..But hey, that's just me.

Get what you want, and what you feel comfortable and confident with no matter if it's a pump, semi, U/O, SxS, drilling, or single shot.

Jimmy10mm · August 22, 2010, 02:18 PM

In one of my favorite classic gun books, John "Pondoro" Taylor's African Rifles and Cartridges, says that the double rifle is superior to the magazine rifle for dangerous game because of the speed with which you can get off a second shot if you need it.

OTOH, in the realm of SD or HD I would rather take my chances with the pump and the 7 rounds rather than the double with two. Reloading a double may be quick but you might have a fellow shooting at you while you're at it.

noyes · August 22, 2010, 02:36 PM

African Rifles and Cartridges...double rifle

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5959068799190#

kozak6 · August 22, 2010, 09:20 PM

I figure a double is probably "good enough", but that a pump is better.

Two main advantages to the double. It's going to be a lot shorter than a pump with the same barrel length, and it's going to be more reliable since it's basically two guns stuck together.

A faster second shot than a pump? I guess, but I'm not convinced it's that much faster as to actually make a difference. And the pump sure offers a faster third shot, and a fourth shot, and a fifth shot, and...

Also, John "Pondoro" Taylor likely was referring to bolt action rifles and not pump guns. Not many of us have a porter to hand us a second loaded gun if we need it either

.

I don't know about the porting on the Stoegers, though. That seems like an unwanted feature for an SD firearm.

dreamweaver · August 22, 2010, 09:32 PM

i have a stoeger s x s and a short barreled mossberg 500. either one is acceptable for HD. if i can't end the incident with 2 rounds of 00, i'll beat him to death with the gun.

(actually, there's a 45 on the nightstand just in case)

Hoskins · August 23, 2010, 02:47 AM

Pump...more shot capacity.

Fiv3 · August 23, 2010, 10:02 AM

I prefer the pump for most all purposes if simply for safety. A hammerless DB is cocked by opening and closing the action. If one wants to keep on "safe" you must either store it unloaded (not slow to load but not the fastest either) or rely on the tang safety.

For me, packing a shotgun for wilderness defense. I want something that is easily brought into action, but not easily made "unsafe". My flavor of choice is a Remington 870 magnum with 4 in the tube and cruiser ready. Basically hold in the slide release, rack and go.

I certainly like the lightening quick follow up of a single trigger double offers though

hogdogs · August 23, 2010, 12:00 PM

Hammerless, auto select doubles are not as reliable as a pump IMHO...

So the only break barrel I would consider for HD is exposed hammer and one trigger per barrel.
Brent

Fifth Wheel · August 23, 2010, 03:33 PM

Go with a pump. If a side-by-side was better for killing people, our troops would have used them throughout the 20th century. They didn't. They used pumps. A pump is fast. Almost as fast as a semi-auto.

Get an 870 Police Magnum with a factory +2 extension and a bead sight, and don't look back. Make sure the LOP is 13" or shorter.

jmr40 · August 23, 2010, 03:45 PM

A double has its advantages, but I'd go pump primarily for the price difference. Any double costing less than $1,000 is going to be of questionable quality and reliability. And not many people are willing to cut a $1,000 gun down.

You can get 3-4 quality pumps for that money.

bamaranger · August 23, 2010, 05:23 PM

A pump gun can be a struggle for the uninitiated. Tube mag, safety, slide release, and pump forearm. I have seen some folks who really should know better, struggle w/ a pump.

A double is much simpler. A single lever breaks the gun open. Insert ctgs, or confirm its loaded. Close, disengage safety, and shoot. Repeat. Hammers may be simpler still.

For a gun guy, a pump gun is great. For use by those less familiar, the double has a much more straightforward manual of arms.

For the same reason, I believe in DA revolvers as opposed to semis.

shooter_from_show-me · August 23, 2010, 06:15 PM

Pump here....for the sake of shot capacity, realibility and the all familiar sound of racking the action.

Horseless Trooper · August 23, 2010, 07:34 PM

Although I own a bunch of 12ga. pump shotguns and a couple of autos the gun that sits next to the bed is a 12ga. exposed hammer coachgun. The simple reason is that the only gun my wife will shoot is her NEF 410 youth model. She understands the exposed hammer, break action operating system and has ZERO interest in learning anthing else so this choise makes sense in our situation. She is not going to engage in room clearing or any other offensive operations but is going to fort up and wait for the cavalry. 2rounds of no4 buck in the gun and another 5 on the stock should handle this nicely.

NeroBrandt · August 23, 2010, 10:45 PM

Usually, if your in a situation where you're having to shoot inside your home and it goes past 2 shots, you're in deep s&$t...

Rampant_Colt · August 23, 2010, 11:02 PM

Those tacti-cool Stoegers with the picatinny rail sounded interesting until you mentioned barrel porting. For indoor use porting is not recommended▬especially on a short barrel shotgun

I have a Baikal SxS 12ga that's located in a go-to place in case of daytime shtf scenario. I keep it loaded with Aguila Mini-Slugs [.729 dia, 385gr pure lead wadcutter @ 1250 FPS]
I load shells in the chambers, pull back on both triggers, and close the action. Now there's no constant pressure on the springs, and you have cock the hammers back by opening the action. This is why exposed-hammer shotguns are good for long-term storage behind a door or in a barn or garage. There are no springs to wear out..
The method i use is a bit unwieldy without practice

Please watch this excellent Clint Smith defensive shotgun video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw

Nnobby45 · August 23, 2010, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Two main advantages to the double. It's going to be a lot shorter than a pump with the same barrel length, and it's going to be more reliable since it's basically two guns stuck together.

The typical 870 runs thru shotgun courses firing hundreds of rounds slick as a whistle with great regularity. From what I hear, most Mossbergs do, also.

I'm not real familiar with the intricate mechanism found in a good double, but I'm not convinced it's simpler than the proven pump shotgun design.

I always likes the concept of having a double or two stashed away as secondary guns---such as in a jewelry store environment, or similar situation, but I'll stick with the pump as my primary.

Middle of the night. You've got a problem. Some seem to have the insight to know that the double will do just fine, but I haven't got the predisposition to know when, where, and how many.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

redlevel42 · August 24, 2010, 06:02 AM

I believe the spring issue is overstated. I have a Parker Bros 20 gauge SXS. It was manufactured in 1916. I have owned it since about 1960. It is in the safe now, with tension on the springs, and has lived like that since about 1960. It has never failed, and I fully expect it to work here in a few weeks when I break it out for the dove opener.

WARRIOR I · August 24, 2010, 06:53 AM

While it would be foolhardy to bet your life on it, never discount the potential
deterrent effect of racking that slide on a cold dark night. I have personally
watched a prowler (intentions unknown) set a hundred yard dash record upon
hearing that sound.

Dave McC · August 24, 2010, 09:52 AM

"... a struggle for the uninitiated...."

I fervently hope no one is depending on a firearm they do not know thoroughly for defending self and family.

As for the OP, pump, though a double is far from useless.

August 22, 2010, 10:23 AM	#1
Hammer1 Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2004 Posts: 214	Double-barrel vs Pump for self-defense ? . Was looking at a gun store rack yesterday. There were several self-defense shotguns in the $400 range on the rack. There were some of the new Stoeger double-barrels with picatinny rails for lasers and such. They also have the barrels ported. There were several pump actions including Mossberg and Brownings. For home defense by the typical homeowner, what is the current stage of argument and debate between the short double-barrel shotgun and the pump action ? Think Clint Smith has said a few positive words and had his picture made with a double-barrel shotgun lately. .

August 22, 2010, 11:27 AM	#3
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	Pump. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

August 22, 2010, 11:46 AM	#5
redlevel42 Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2007 Location: South Georgia Posts: 310	I have both, as well as single-shots. I feel about as well armed for HD with one as the other. If I were taking doors with a swat team, I would want a pump or a semi. It isn't hard to fire a single-shot shotgun, break it open and reload, and be back on target in just a couple of seconds with a little practice. Best place to practice quick reloads with a double or ss is on a dove field with the birds really swirling in. __________________ Georgia on My Mind

August 22, 2010, 01:40 PM	#6
ronto Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2007 Location: Smack Dab in the Middle of Nowhere. Posts: 505	Depends.... DB to keep it simple for the inexperienced...All others, it's the pump. __________________ "We will do this: we will hang together, we will keep our organization, our arms, our discipline, our hatred of oppression, until one universal shout goes up from an admiring age that this Missouri Cavalry Division preferred exile to submission, death to dishonor". General Joseph O. Shelby, CSA (1830-1897) The only Confederate General who refused to surrender himself or his 1,000+ "Iron Brigade".

August 22, 2010, 09:32 PM	#11
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	i have a stoeger s x s and a short barreled mossberg 500. either one is acceptable for HD. if i can't end the incident with 2 rounds of 00, i'll beat him to death with the gun. (actually, there's a 45 on the nightstand just in case) __________________ http://takdriver.com/

August 22, 2010, 10:24 AM	#2
finz50 Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 87	2 shots or 7.....I prefer the larger capacity of the pump...

August 22, 2010, 11:27 AM	#4
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	We have a Mossberg 500 12-gauge pump-action shotgun, which holds six rounds total when fully loaded with a round in the chamber. Ours has five rounds loaded, because for safety we don't leave a round in the chamber. Besides, hearing somebody pump a shotgun is intimidating; maybe any future intruder will decide to leave without further argument. We added a Knoxx SpecOps stock so that I could shoot the thing without getting a bruise on my shoulder from the kick. We might never need more than two rounds for self-defense, but then we might, so I prefer what we have to a double-barrel.

August 22, 2010, 01:56 PM	#7
knight0334 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: Brookville, PA Posts: 442	I prefer a SxS for all purposes. I also prefer a single shot over pumps, semi's, and O/U's. ..But hey, that's just me. Get what you want, and what you feel comfortable and confident with no matter if it's a pump, semi, U/O, SxS, drilling, or single shot.

August 22, 2010, 02:18 PM	#8
Jimmy10mm Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2010 Location: Greenacres, FL Posts: 933	In one of my favorite classic gun books, John "Pondoro" Taylor's African Rifles and Cartridges, says that the double rifle is superior to the magazine rifle for dangerous game because of the speed with which you can get off a second shot if you need it. OTOH, in the realm of SD or HD I would rather take my chances with the pump and the 7 rounds rather than the double with two. Reloading a double may be quick but you might have a fellow shooting at you while you're at it.

August 22, 2010, 02:36 PM	#9
noyes Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 1,032	African Rifles and Cartridges...double rifle http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5959068799190#

August 22, 2010, 09:20 PM	#10
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	I figure a double is probably "good enough", but that a pump is better. Two main advantages to the double. It's going to be a lot shorter than a pump with the same barrel length, and it's going to be more reliable since it's basically two guns stuck together. A faster second shot than a pump? I guess, but I'm not convinced it's that much faster as to actually make a difference. And the pump sure offers a faster third shot, and a fourth shot, and a fifth shot, and... Also, John "Pondoro" Taylor likely was referring to bolt action rifles and not pump guns. Not many of us have a porter to hand us a second loaded gun if we need it either . I don't know about the porting on the Stoegers, though. That seems like an unwanted feature for an SD firearm.

August 23, 2010, 02:47 AM	#12
Hoskins Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2010 Posts: 240	Pump...more shot capacity.

August 23, 2010, 10:02 AM	#13
Fiv3 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2010 Posts: 273	I prefer the pump for most all purposes if simply for safety. A hammerless DB is cocked by opening and closing the action. If one wants to keep on "safe" you must either store it unloaded (not slow to load but not the fastest either) or rely on the tang safety. For me, packing a shotgun for wilderness defense. I want something that is easily brought into action, but not easily made "unsafe". My flavor of choice is a Remington 870 magnum with 4 in the tube and cruiser ready. Basically hold in the slide release, rack and go. I certainly like the lightening quick follow up of a single trigger double offers though

August 23, 2010, 12:00 PM	#14
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Hammerless, auto select doubles are not as reliable as a pump IMHO... So the only break barrel I would consider for HD is exposed hammer and one trigger per barrel. Brent

August 23, 2010, 03:33 PM	#15
Fifth Wheel Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 49	Go with a pump. If a side-by-side was better for killing people, our troops would have used them throughout the 20th century. They didn't. They used pumps. A pump is fast. Almost as fast as a semi-auto. Get an 870 Police Magnum with a factory +2 extension and a bead sight, and don't look back. Make sure the LOP is 13" or shorter.

August 23, 2010, 03:45 PM	#16
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	A double has its advantages, but I'd go pump primarily for the price difference. Any double costing less than $1,000 is going to be of questionable quality and reliability. And not many people are willing to cut a $1,000 gun down. You can get 3-4 quality pumps for that money.

August 23, 2010, 05:23 PM	#17
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	depends A pump gun can be a struggle for the uninitiated. Tube mag, safety, slide release, and pump forearm. I have seen some folks who really should know better, struggle w/ a pump. A double is much simpler. A single lever breaks the gun open. Insert ctgs, or confirm its loaded. Close, disengage safety, and shoot. Repeat. Hammers may be simpler still. For a gun guy, a pump gun is great. For use by those less familiar, the double has a much more straightforward manual of arms. For the same reason, I believe in DA revolvers as opposed to semis.

August 23, 2010, 06:15 PM	#18
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	Pump here....for the sake of shot capacity, realibility and the all familiar sound of racking the action. __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

August 23, 2010, 07:34 PM	#19
Horseless Trooper Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2008 Location: Northern N.Y. Posts: 186	Although I own a bunch of 12ga. pump shotguns and a couple of autos the gun that sits next to the bed is a 12ga. exposed hammer coachgun. The simple reason is that the only gun my wife will shoot is her NEF 410 youth model. She understands the exposed hammer, break action operating system and has ZERO interest in learning anthing else so this choise makes sense in our situation. She is not going to engage in room clearing or any other offensive operations but is going to fort up and wait for the cavalry. 2rounds of no4 buck in the gun and another 5 on the stock should handle this nicely.

August 23, 2010, 10:45 PM	#20
NeroBrandt Member Join Date: August 16, 2009 Location: Oildale, Ca Posts: 32	Usually, if your in a situation where you're having to shoot inside your home and it goes past 2 shots, you're in deep s&$t...

August 23, 2010, 11:02 PM	#21
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	Those tacti-cool Stoegers with the picatinny rail sounded interesting until you mentioned barrel porting. For indoor use porting is not recommended▬especially on a short barrel shotgun I have a Baikal SxS 12ga that's located in a go-to place in case of daytime shtf scenario. I keep it loaded with Aguila Mini-Slugs [.729 dia, 385gr pure lead wadcutter @ 1250 FPS] I load shells in the chambers, pull back on both triggers, and close the action. Now there's no constant pressure on the springs, and you have cock the hammers back by opening the action. This is why exposed-hammer shotguns are good for long-term storage behind a door or in a barn or garage. There are no springs to wear out.. The method i use is a bit unwieldy without practice Please watch this excellent Clint Smith defensive shotgun video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts Last edited by Rampant_Colt; August 23, 2010 at 11:08 PM.

August 24, 2010, 06:02 AM	#23
redlevel42 Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2007 Location: South Georgia Posts: 310	I believe the spring issue is overstated. I have a Parker Bros 20 gauge SXS. It was manufactured in 1916. I have owned it since about 1960. It is in the safe now, with tension on the springs, and has lived like that since about 1960. It has never failed, and I fully expect it to work here in a few weeks when I break it out for the dove opener. __________________ Georgia on My Mind

August 24, 2010, 06:53 AM	#24
WARRIOR I Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 169	While it would be foolhardy to bet your life on it, never discount the potential deterrent effect of racking that slide on a cold dark night. I have personally watched a prowler (intentions unknown) set a hundred yard dash record upon hearing that sound.

August 24, 2010, 09:52 AM	#25
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	"... a struggle for the uninitiated...." I fervently hope no one is depending on a firearm they do not know thoroughly for defending self and family. As for the OP, pump, though a double is far from useless.