Remington and Winchester brass question

06shooter · February 1, 2015, 09:40 PM

On midway USA's Web site for both manufacturers it says to full length size the brass.
Why when it has never been fired ?
This is written in the notes section ?
Thanks !

4runnerman · February 1, 2015, 09:51 PM

Case mouths can get dinged when in shipping.

William T. Watts · February 1, 2015, 10:10 PM

I never full length sized new cases, usually the expander will take care of the dings at the case mouth.. I have partial sized a few cases but these instances are rare.. William

condor bravo · February 1, 2015, 10:32 PM

It's usually just sufficient to run new cases over the expander button to true-up the case mouths, but I have run across a few situations where sizing would result in a tighter and more desireable initial neck to bullet tension.

06shooter · February 1, 2015, 10:42 PM

Thanks guys , I just wanted to make sure. I've read people have had problems with this brass.
Have any of you had trouble ?

condor bravo · February 1, 2015, 11:01 PM

No problems really but prefer Remington over Winchester since the Remingtons are usually heavier, but will take Federals over anything.

jmr40 · February 1, 2015, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Case mouths can get dinged when in shipping.

They straighten right up when the bullet goes in. I used to size new brass, but have seen enough evidence to convince me that it is a waste of time. I just add primers and load up new brass and have done so for a couple of years. It works just fine.

Snyper · February 2, 2015, 01:49 AM

I always size and trim new brass.

I also ream and deburr the flash holes

It may be a "waste of time" but I know when I start loading the cases are all identical

Mike / Tx · February 2, 2015, 07:48 AM

Quote:

I always size and trim new brass.

I also ream and deburr the flash holes

It may be a "waste of time" but I know when I start loading the cases are all identical

This is my process as well. I have had new brass that the necks were out of round enough to shave copper off of bullets, and I have had it dinged enough I couldn't seat a bullet if I tried. So I just got my priorities in order and do the whole mess from the get go. They might still vary a bit in weight, but coming form the same initial batch they are all the same length and have had the flash holes deburred and pockets uniformed. After that I keep them trimmed and usually things stay good with the final load until those cases are lost.

If you process them all from the get go, then you use 20 of them for load development and or hunting afterwords the rest will be ready to go and SHOULD be as good as the others were when you started.

hooligan1 · February 2, 2015, 09:21 AM

Mike and Sniper, all of the above, and from now on I will also anneal new brass if Im resizing to a different caliber.....ditto what you fellas do.

AllenJ · February 2, 2015, 10:01 AM

It has been a few years since I've had any new Remington or Winchester brass but when I did what I noted was that the Winchester's were pretty horrible. Out of 4 bags of 50 I was finding at least 1 and sometimes 3 throw aways as their necks were split. My last couple of bags of Remington's were much better and if memory serves I only found 1 bad piece total.

All new brass I get I neck size and chamfer both inside and outside. Remington and Winchester's all get flash hole deburred, primer pockets uniformed, and I turn the outside of the necks just enough to ensure they are all the same.

06shooter · February 2, 2015, 10:19 AM

Explain uniforming the pockets .

Jim243 · February 2, 2015, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Explain uniforming the pockets .

Generally this step is not needed to be done. Your case starts out as a single disk of metal and goes through many punch presses to form the case into the caliber and shape of a finished case. Like all things metal the dies in the punch press can wear down and not give a correct diameter to your primer pocket. Remember they are punching 100's of thousand if not millions of cases with this equipment. To insure your primers will fit properly you can uniform your primer pockets with a number of tools out on the market. I use a Lyman case prep center that has a cutter that will uniform my cases primer pockets. Since I use it for removing any crimped primer pockets from 5.56 cases, it is no problem to do the same for any case that pass my hands while trimming any case.

You will only really need to do this for cases that have crimped primer pockets but will not hurt doing it for others as well.

Stay safe and shoot straight.
Jim

Longshot4 · February 2, 2015, 01:39 PM

I like Rem. and Win. brass and I am a guy that likes small groups. I usually can process the brass will enough to get 5 shot groups to 3/4-3/8". With my factory rifles that makes me happy. It is the smaller groups that get tough. I have been experimenting the bump FL sizing brass, debur primer holes inside, now Uniform pockets for consistent seating. Trim and some times when I can get larger batches of 100 or more I will weigh. My biggest problem is with the collet trimmer from RCBS that is obsolete. Can't get consistency in case length. I like the Sinclair Wilson trimmer but can't find case holder for K Hornet. The for more than 35 years I have been Full Sizing new brass and don't have a problem tossing out a occasional case. In fact I insist on looking for defects carefully when ever I load any cases of any kind.

FrankenMauser · February 2, 2015, 02:15 PM

Quote:

They straighten right up when the bullet goes in.

Sure they do....

You go right ahead, and try to seat a flat-base bullet in these cases:

Plus...
Note: These are all different R-P cases, and after being run through a FL sizing die. You should have seen them before they went into the die.

If you try seating bullets in those cases, you'll be getting nowhere fast, and have plenty of scrap brass to prove it.

Even though all of the above photos are of R-P brass, I will no longer touch Winchester brass, because I have encountered more problems and much more 'endemic' problems with Winchester brass....

reynolds357 · February 2, 2015, 09:38 PM

I used to do all this stuff to new brass. I now buy Norma brass and it is already done.

RaySendero · February 2, 2015, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Snyper wrote:

I always size and trim new brass.

Yep - Me, too!

steve4102 · February 3, 2015, 08:00 AM

Why wouldn't you size and chamfer new brass? To save a few minutes?

By the time one posts the question on this forum, waits for the replies, responds to the replies, he/she could have all that new brass sized chamfered and ready to load.

hooligan1 · February 3, 2015, 09:45 AM

I got, as a gift from my sons, a bag of winchester 7mm rem mag brass. Upon opening bag and inspection off all pieces one at a time, I had three pieces I wouldn't use, one split caseneck, one with huge dent in shoulder, and one with a split shoulder..I sent those peices back explaining that they were of no use to me.
Three weeks later,(guestimate) I recieved a letter from winchester appologizing and a winchester buck for my troubles, the winchester buck was 20.00 for winchester products only, so I pitched in 8.00 more and got another bag of brass...

chiefr · February 3, 2015, 09:58 AM

A++++ for Frankenmausers post.

There are variations as much as .010 on new R-P and WW brass. The longer the case, the more variations. 300WM, 300RUM can vary as much as .011! The pic Frank posted showing deformed case mouths is common.

I for one would rather buy once fired R-P, WW than new R-P, WW brass, because any problems would have been noticed at initial firing.

I have spent many of the cold wet days prepping and trimming a thousands of cases in at least 20 calibers. I have distinctly noticed R-P needs far more trimming than all others with WW a close second.

Good Post Frank.

schmellba99 · February 3, 2015, 10:03 AM

I size and trim new brass - mostly because I then know it's done, and done the way I like it.

I have no clue that the factory sizes everything to spec, or that their QC is up to snuff, etc. with their bulk brass. I assume it's not.

It takes all of 10 or 15 minutes, and to me that is cheap insurance to know that the brass is prepared properly. Plus, it gives me an opportunity to inspect it. I've not had the bad luck with Winchester that other posters claim, but you will find the odd one in a bunch, even with good brass - it's the law of probability that you will.

I find it humorous that as anal as some posters are about their reloading process that they will take a bag of bulk factory brass and not prep it.

Longshot4 · February 3, 2015, 11:37 AM

Now that is a good post!

mikld · February 3, 2015, 11:42 AM

Cartridge cases are mass produce by the millions and not every one is gonna be perfect. Full length sizing insures the particular case in your hand is gonna be to specification...

condor bravo · February 3, 2015, 06:10 PM

Re: Explain uniforming the pockets

As indicated in some of the posts, uniforming the primer pockets primarily refers to a tool that is used to cut the pockets, if needed, to a specific depth (I think the depth usually mentioned is so the primer will seat .002" below case head). Uniforming as used in that manner is often heard in the same breath with the M-1 Garand to minimize, BUT NOT GUARANTEED TO PREVENT, the occurances of slam fires due to the Garand's free floating firing pin.

For that purpose I use and recommend the Redding uniformer tool that has the cutter set to the exact depth and cannot be moved. It can be used with the provided handle but much better yet chucked into an electric drill for much faster results. And of course it can also be used for just a primer pocket cleaner.

February 1, 2015, 09:40 PM	#1
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Remington and Winchester brass question On midway USA's Web site for both manufacturers it says to full length size the brass. Why when it has never been fired ? This is written in the notes section ? Thanks !

February 1, 2015, 09:51 PM	#2
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Case mouths can get dinged when in shipping. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 1, 2015, 10:10 PM	#3
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I never full length sized new cases, usually the expander will take care of the dings at the case mouth.. I have partial sized a few cases but these instances are rare.. William Last edited by William T. Watts; February 2, 2015 at 09:31 AM.

February 1, 2015, 11:01 PM	#6
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	No problems really but prefer Remington over Winchester since the Remingtons are usually heavier, but will take Federals over anything. Last edited by condor bravo; February 1, 2015 at 11:12 PM.

February 2, 2015, 01:49 AM	#8
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	I always size and trim new brass. I also ream and deburr the flash holes It may be a "waste of time" but I know when I start loading the cases are all identical __________________ One shot, one kill

February 1, 2015, 10:32 PM	#4
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	It's usually just sufficient to run new cases over the expander button to true-up the case mouths, but I have run across a few situations where sizing would result in a tighter and more desireable initial neck to bullet tension.

February 1, 2015, 10:42 PM	#5
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Thanks guys , I just wanted to make sure. I've read people have had problems with this brass. Have any of you had trouble ?

February 2, 2015, 09:21 AM	#10
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	Mike and Sniper, all of the above, and from now on I will also anneal new brass if Im resizing to a different caliber.....ditto what you fellas do. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

February 2, 2015, 10:01 AM	#11
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	It has been a few years since I've had any new Remington or Winchester brass but when I did what I noted was that the Winchester's were pretty horrible. Out of 4 bags of 50 I was finding at least 1 and sometimes 3 throw aways as their necks were split. My last couple of bags of Remington's were much better and if memory serves I only found 1 bad piece total. All new brass I get I neck size and chamfer both inside and outside. Remington and Winchester's all get flash hole deburred, primer pockets uniformed, and I turn the outside of the necks just enough to ensure they are all the same.

February 2, 2015, 10:19 AM	#12
06shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2015 Posts: 165	Explain uniforming the pockets .

February 2, 2015, 01:39 PM	#14
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	I like Rem. and Win. brass and I am a guy that likes small groups. I usually can process the brass will enough to get 5 shot groups to 3/4-3/8". With my factory rifles that makes me happy. It is the smaller groups that get tough. I have been experimenting the bump FL sizing brass, debur primer holes inside, now Uniform pockets for consistent seating. Trim and some times when I can get larger batches of 100 or more I will weigh. My biggest problem is with the collet trimmer from RCBS that is obsolete. Can't get consistency in case length. I like the Sinclair Wilson trimmer but can't find case holder for K Hornet. The for more than 35 years I have been Full Sizing new brass and don't have a problem tossing out a occasional case. In fact I insist on looking for defects carefully when ever I load any cases of any kind.

February 2, 2015, 09:38 PM	#16
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I used to do all this stuff to new brass. I now buy Norma brass and it is already done.

February 3, 2015, 08:00 AM	#18
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Why wouldn't you size and chamfer new brass? To save a few minutes? By the time one posts the question on this forum, waits for the replies, responds to the replies, he/she could have all that new brass sized chamfered and ready to load.

February 3, 2015, 09:45 AM	#19
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	I got, as a gift from my sons, a bag of winchester 7mm rem mag brass. Upon opening bag and inspection off all pieces one at a time, I had three pieces I wouldn't use, one split caseneck, one with huge dent in shoulder, and one with a split shoulder..I sent those peices back explaining that they were of no use to me. Three weeks later,(guestimate) I recieved a letter from winchester appologizing and a winchester buck for my troubles, the winchester buck was 20.00 for winchester products only, so I pitched in 8.00 more and got another bag of brass... __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

February 3, 2015, 09:58 AM	#20
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	A++++ for Frankenmausers post. There are variations as much as .010 on new R-P and WW brass. The longer the case, the more variations. 300WM, 300RUM can vary as much as .011! The pic Frank posted showing deformed case mouths is common. I for one would rather buy once fired R-P, WW than new R-P, WW brass, because any problems would have been noticed at initial firing. I have spent many of the cold wet days prepping and trimming a thousands of cases in at least 20 calibers. I have distinctly noticed R-P needs far more trimming than all others with WW a close second. Good Post Frank.

February 3, 2015, 10:03 AM	#21
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	I size and trim new brass - mostly because I then know it's done, and done the way I like it. I have no clue that the factory sizes everything to spec, or that their QC is up to snuff, etc. with their bulk brass. I assume it's not. It takes all of 10 or 15 minutes, and to me that is cheap insurance to know that the brass is prepared properly. Plus, it gives me an opportunity to inspect it. I've not had the bad luck with Winchester that other posters claim, but you will find the odd one in a bunch, even with good brass - it's the law of probability that you will. I find it humorous that as anal as some posters are about their reloading process that they will take a bag of bulk factory brass and not prep it.

February 3, 2015, 11:37 AM	#22
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	Now that is a good post!

February 3, 2015, 11:42 AM	#23
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Cartridge cases are mass produce by the millions and not every one is gonna be perfect. Full length sizing insures the particular case in your hand is gonna be to specification... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 3, 2015, 06:10 PM	#24
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Re: Explain uniforming the pockets As indicated in some of the posts, uniforming the primer pockets primarily refers to a tool that is used to cut the pockets, if needed, to a specific depth (I think the depth usually mentioned is so the primer will seat .002" below case head). Uniforming as used in that manner is often heard in the same breath with the M-1 Garand to minimize, BUT NOT GUARANTEED TO PREVENT, the occurances of slam fires due to the Garand's free floating firing pin. For that purpose I use and recommend the Redding uniformer tool that has the cutter set to the exact depth and cannot be moved. It can be used with the provided handle but much better yet chucked into an electric drill for much faster results. And of course it can also be used for just a primer pocket cleaner. Last edited by condor bravo; February 3, 2015 at 06:18 PM.