Pistol Grip = Permit Required?

Tatsumi67 · December 27, 2008, 03:49 PM

Minnesota has a weird law regaurding "military style rifles".

If I put a stock set with a pistol grip onto a rifle which before did not have a pistol grip does that mean I have to get a permit to actually use it?

JohnRaven · December 27, 2008, 05:49 PM

Ehhh, I seriously doubt it... Minnesota is pretty libby, but they aren't that bad...

I use to have a pistol grip on my shotgun... Can't aim with it, and it hurts to shoot, but other than that, it was B.A.

I think as long as the barrel is 18 1/2 inches and the overall length is at least 26 1/2 inches, your legal! (overall length = barrel, receiver & stock)

rkba_net · December 27, 2008, 09:41 PM

As a rule pistol-grip only shotguns are treated as handguns under the law... since part of the definition of a shotgun is that it fires from the shoulder...

armsmaster270 · December 27, 2008, 09:55 PM

In CA if your rifle/shotgun has a M-16 type pistol grip as opposed to the standard 870 shotgun pistol grip on the stock it is an assault weapon and banned. Unless you registersd it before a certain date as an assault weapon.

JohnRaven · December 27, 2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

As a rule pistol-grip only shotguns are treated as handguns under the law... since part of the definition of a shotgun is that it fires from the shoulder...

According to what state and where in what law does it say that?

Superhouse 15 · December 28, 2008, 09:22 PM

If a shotgun has a pistol grip installed on it, the ATF considers it a handgun and a dealer may only sell it to someone over 21. If it has a full stock, it may be sold to those 18 and up. RKBA is right, they consider it a handgun since the definition is indeed that it be fired from the shoulder. Now, I can sell the shotgun with stock to an 18 year old, sell him a pistol grip, and lend him the wrench to change it and that is legal. Dumb, but legal. I have a copy of the letter from the Man, but I don't think it's on this computer. Look in 18 USC 921 (a)(5) for the definition. As for your state law, I honestly can't say.

Found it:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

straightshoooter · January 8, 2009, 01:44 AM

armsmaster270
Senior Member

Join Date: 2008-11-25
Location: California
Posts: 276 In CA if your rifle/shotgun has a M-16 type pistol grip as opposed to the standard 870 shotgun pistol grip on the stock it is an assault weapon and banned. Unless you registersd it before a certain date as an assault weapon.
__________________
i'm not sure how to "quote" so i'll do it this way above

i know shotguns can legally have pistol grips in ca., but didn't realize it was because of design. how is M-16 grip different than 870 shot gun pistol grip and if the "870" was moded to fit other stocks would it be legal in ca.?

i understand rimfire rifles are exempt... or not included... in the assult classification?

ROFOCALE · January 8, 2009, 08:16 AM

If a shotgun has a pistol grip installed on it, the ATF considers it a handgun and a dealer may only sell it to someone over 21.

now if the ATF consider a pistol gripped shotgun a handgun. can a shotgun with a pistol grip technically be short barrelled with out it being a NFA weapon. like a rifle with just a pistol grip and not a buttstock?

Superhouse 15 · January 12, 2009, 10:26 AM

If I understand it right, if you take a shotgun that was manufactured PG only and has never had a stock on it and shorten it, it is an AOW. Still $200 on a form 1 to do it, or $5 to transfer it. If you do the exact same modification to a shotgun with a stock, it is an SBS and subject to $200 tax stamp either way.

Dumb.

armsmaster270 · January 25, 2009, 03:24 PM

STRAIGHTSHOOTER

The M-16 pistol grip basicaly sticks straight down from the stock as opposed to the standard 870 pistol grip which is gently curved and an intigral part of the stock and does not stick down. It's stupid but its the law.

Hkmp5sd · January 25, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

now if the ATF consider a pistol gripped shotgun a handgun. can a shotgun with a pistol grip technically be short barrelled with out it being a NFA weapon. like a rifle with just a pistol grip and not a buttstock?

To avoid confusion, ATF does NOT consider a PG only shotgun to be a handgun. ATF considers it to be a "Title I firearm." This is the same category as handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc. What ATF does is NOT consider a PG only shotgun to be is a "shotgun".

A "shotgun" by definition is designed to be fired from the shoulder. Obviously a PG only shotgun cannot be fired from the shoulder. According to the federal laws, a person under 21 may only buy a "rifle" or a "shotgun" from a federally licensed dealer. ATF decided that since a PG only shotgun isn't a "shotgun", one must be over 21 to purchase it from a FFL.

December 27, 2008, 03:49 PM	#1
Tatsumi67 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Posts: 575	Pistol Grip = Permit Required? Minnesota has a weird law regaurding "military style rifles". If I put a stock set with a pistol grip onto a rifle which before did not have a pistol grip does that mean I have to get a permit to actually use it? __________________ "Do what you can, what you want, what you must,feel the hunger inside, just don't lose your trust" - KMFDM, Trust. NRA Member,Minnesota State Safety Certified, Eagle Scout Currently schemeing on an AR-15 build.

December 27, 2008, 09:55 PM	#4
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	In CA if your rifle/shotgun has a M-16 type pistol grip as opposed to the standard 870 shotgun pistol grip on the stock it is an assault weapon and banned. Unless you registersd it before a certain date as an assault weapon. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

December 28, 2008, 09:22 PM	#6
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	P.G. Shotguns If a shotgun has a pistol grip installed on it, the ATF considers it a handgun and a dealer may only sell it to someone over 21. If it has a full stock, it may be sold to those 18 and up. RKBA is right, they consider it a handgun since the definition is indeed that it be fired from the shoulder. Now, I can sell the shotgun with stock to an 18 year old, sell him a pistol grip, and lend him the wrench to change it and that is legal. Dumb, but legal. I have a copy of the letter from the Man, but I don't think it's on this computer. Look in 18 USC 921 (a)(5) for the definition. As for your state law, I honestly can't say. Found it: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

January 8, 2009, 01:44 AM	#7
straightshoooter Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 15	armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: 2008-11-25 Location: California Posts: 276 In CA if your rifle/shotgun has a M-16 type pistol grip as opposed to the standard 870 shotgun pistol grip on the stock it is an assault weapon and banned. Unless you registersd it before a certain date as an assault weapon. __________________ i'm not sure how to "quote" so i'll do it this way above i know shotguns can legally have pistol grips in ca., but didn't realize it was because of design. how is M-16 grip different than 870 shot gun pistol grip and if the "870" was moded to fit other stocks would it be legal in ca.? i understand rimfire rifles are exempt... or not included... in the assult classification? __________________ know your constitution

January 8, 2009, 08:16 AM	#8
ROFOCALE Member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Posts: 21	pistol grip shotgun If a shotgun has a pistol grip installed on it, the ATF considers it a handgun and a dealer may only sell it to someone over 21. now if the ATF consider a pistol gripped shotgun a handgun. can a shotgun with a pistol grip technically be short barrelled with out it being a NFA weapon. like a rifle with just a pistol grip and not a buttstock?

December 27, 2008, 05:49 PM	#2
JohnRaven Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2008 Location: The Republic Posts: 131	Ehhh, I seriously doubt it... Minnesota is pretty libby, but they aren't that bad... I use to have a pistol grip on my shotgun... Can't aim with it, and it hurts to shoot, but other than that, it was B.A. I think as long as the barrel is 18 1/2 inches and the overall length is at least 26 1/2 inches, your legal! (overall length = barrel, receiver & stock)

December 27, 2008, 09:41 PM	#3
rkba_net Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2000 Posts: 153	As a rule pistol-grip only shotguns are treated as handguns under the law... since part of the definition of a shotgun is that it fires from the shoulder...

January 12, 2009, 10:26 AM	#9
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	Pistol Grip AOW If I understand it right, if you take a shotgun that was manufactured PG only and has never had a stock on it and shorten it, it is an AOW. Still $200 on a form 1 to do it, or $5 to transfer it. If you do the exact same modification to a shotgun with a stock, it is an SBS and subject to $200 tax stamp either way. Dumb.

January 25, 2009, 03:24 PM	#10
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	STRAIGHTSHOOTER The M-16 pistol grip basicaly sticks straight down from the stock as opposed to the standard 870 pistol grip which is gently curved and an intigral part of the stock and does not stick down. It's stupid but its the law. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.