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December 18, 2012, 11:02 AM | #1 |
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Should NICS be opened for everyone?
Should they change the rules so that anyone doing a private transfer would be able to access NICS? I've been thinking more and more about it. First, from the sellers perspective it takes a lot of heat off of you if something were to go wrong. Second, it shuts up whiny anti-guns talking about loopholes that don't exist.
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December 18, 2012, 11:32 AM | #2 |
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Subtle question - do you mean that NICS is mandated for a private sale or that it would be available, say at a gun show. You could ask the buyer to go to a NICS station for a check?
Or having it as a general data base? That would lead to data snooping by all kinds of folks. Do you want your boss to be able to do a NICS check? If at the confined instance of the a gun show, such privacy intrusions probably would be unlikely. Having a NICS stand at the shows for private sales if you want to make a purchaser have one is different.
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December 18, 2012, 12:15 PM | #3 |
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First, if I sell a piece of personal property, assuming the sale is legal, why should I be held responsible for the actions of the buyer?
Second, why spend time, energy and resources trying to fix non-existent problems?
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December 18, 2012, 12:23 PM | #4 |
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First off, I don't like the idea of the NICS system at all. For now, it's something licensed dealers have to use.
Expanding it so anyone could use it would lead to everyone using it to run superfluous background checks on themselves, and it would bog the system down for retailers. As it is, the system has been hopelessly overburdened the last week.
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December 18, 2012, 12:24 PM | #5 |
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Glenn, NICS as it sits no, no database just a call in and BG check.
Spats, it would be more as a counter to the stupidity of the elected officials and for sound peace of mind for those who sell if they wish. |
December 18, 2012, 12:26 PM | #6 |
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I could be wrong, but couldn't this already be done voluntarily? Take the firearm in question to an FFL pay them transfer/consignment fees and do the sale there?
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December 18, 2012, 12:34 PM | #7 |
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In the state of Washington that would never fly. FFL transfers in this state are subject to a use tax on the full value of the firearm + the FFL fee + shipping, if any.
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December 18, 2012, 12:42 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
No, thank you.
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December 18, 2012, 12:46 PM | #9 |
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There are a couple issues to deal with, but if those were solved, I can't say I'd object even if it was mandatory.
First, the openings for identity theft are astronomical. Second, the waiting period for a handgun in a private sale isn't acceptable. I'm not a private business with store hours, and a security system to prevent the guy from coming back and stealing it while "waiting for the approval" once he knows I have it. |
December 18, 2012, 12:53 PM | #10 | |
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NICS is unique because its purpose is specifically for a licensed firearms dealer to verify eligibility of a buyer. 99.9% it's shockingly efficient, but it is designed for that purpose only. The operators are trained to enter and process very specific information in a very specific sequence and nothing else.
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December 18, 2012, 12:58 PM | #11 |
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The real question is do you want some guy you met on Craiglist, Gunbroker, or the Swap Meet two counties over, selling you what may be a stolen gun, to have your address and social?
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December 18, 2012, 06:28 PM | #12 |
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With tweaks to prevent identity theft and privacy issues, I'd support it. Frankly, one reason I don't plan on selling any of my guns is due to the fact that I might be selling to a less than decent person (although many would obviously slip through any NICS-like system).
If the identity and privacy issues can be worked out, I could see an open "instant check" system preventing a small number of bad sales (certainly a good thing). |
December 18, 2012, 07:08 PM | #13 | |
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In California...
All transfers must go through an FFL. Problem solved.
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December 18, 2012, 08:24 PM | #14 |
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If it is just something to ease your own conscience, you could ask to see the buyers concealed carry license (if he has one), then your background check is already done.
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December 18, 2012, 08:41 PM | #15 |
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The federal government cannot regulate a transaction between two residents of a single state of the union.
This is discussed in the commerce clause of the Constitution. A federal requirement to have background checks for an intrastate transaction is NOT coming to your state. |
December 18, 2012, 08:44 PM | #16 | |
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December 18, 2012, 08:48 PM | #17 | |
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December 19, 2012, 12:20 AM | #18 | |
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...too bad the federal government doesn't much care about the limits of the commerce clause. |
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December 19, 2012, 11:37 AM | #19 | |
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December 19, 2012, 03:39 PM | #20 |
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In NY for a private sale of a couple pistols I had to go to the sheriff's dept. with the buyer and write down makes, models, and serial numbers of the weapons. They are then transferred from my permit to his. This is a pain, I know, but there will be no question of accountability on my end with whatever happens in the future with those guns. People will bring up the issue of why does responsibility fall on the seller? It would be illegal for the seller to knowingly sell a gun to felon, but what about all the times when a seller UNknowingly sells a gun to a felon? This happens, and it's an easy fix, but would lead to inconvenience on the part of the sellers. Just a thought, could a seller stop into a local Bass Pro Shop or wherever and have the clerk run a NICS check for you? Maybe pay a small service fee? It would be a pain for a sellers to do, but we as gun advocates need to start thinking of fair and reasonable compromises on this issue because something is coming. It can either be change we can live with or not. I'd prefer a change we could live with.
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December 19, 2012, 03:45 PM | #21 |
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That's the NICS check. And mostly I'm ok with it, except for the sales/use tax. Washington State has worked pretty hard to make sure they get a slice of the pie in any gun transaction they can. Out of state/internet site purchase? Use an FFL, and pay tax on EVERYTHING, gun, shipping, even the FFL fee. Now if you sell your deer rifle to your kid, or worse, "sell" your kid's deer rifle to your kid himself when he turns 18, or 21, or moves out on his own, or whatever rite of passage you choose...
In fact, gifting in this state using that system could be even more costly. Without a bill of sale reciept, you'd have to pay use tax on the FFL fee, shipping if applicable, and sales tax on the fair market value of hte firearm. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for SOMETHING, as long as it doesn't start giving the state another way to stick their hand in my wallet for a sale that either isn't sale, or they don't belong in as interstate commerce, etc. |
December 19, 2012, 04:10 PM | #22 | |
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December 19, 2012, 04:13 PM | #23 | ||
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Quote:
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Edit: Spats beat me to it! |
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December 19, 2012, 05:01 PM | #24 |
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I am fundamentally against requiring NICS checks for private transactions.
Giving people access to NICS poses serious problems, as previously discussed. The only way I can envision voluntary NICS checks for private transactions would be if buyers could go to an FFL and get a certificate showing that the buyer had passed a NICS check. |
December 19, 2012, 05:05 PM | #25 |
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I'd be ok with that in some form.. a number entered on BATFE website that shows a name and "Pre-approved" good for a week.. match name to photo-id.
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