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Old August 18, 2014, 04:28 AM   #26
1stmar
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MM I agree the 9e is a great choice. If you do decide to go the 1911 road, to stay authentic get the gi model but the sites are crude and the grip safety is lacking. I'd recommend the rock island tactical or equivalent. Personally like the sr9 models better then the xds.
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Old August 18, 2014, 07:56 AM   #27
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What is a Hi-Point?
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Old August 18, 2014, 09:37 AM   #28
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If you do decide to go the 1911 road, to stay authentic get the gi model but the sites are crude and the grip safety is lacking.
The original sights are not "crude" at all they are well designed for service and
young eyes should not have any trouble with them,one man's crude is another man's finesse.
And the grip safety is not lacking either,it is that that spring loaded part located under the hammer as you grip the pistol it releases the trigger and allows it to operate.
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:00 AM   #29
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There's a Rock Island 1911 at my LGS. They're pretty good? The store owner (or somebody) told me some bad things about them. They looked like very nice guns.
I'm very curious as to what your LGS owner told you about RIA's.
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:02 AM   #30
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I'm very curious as to what your LGS owner told you about RIA's.
They weren't very well built, they're pretty cheap. Just get a Glock. Etc. Im still wondering what this Hi-Point is.
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:08 AM   #31
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Hey poly take it easy. The sights are what they are and for any other purpose then battle conditions they are lacking. Use whatever term you want but let's face it, if your not looking for an authentic gi pistol what's the first thing people do? Change the sights and the grip safety.
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:17 AM   #32
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Mosin, don't let the naysayers dissuade you: If you wanted a 1911 in .45, get one.

That's the way I started into handguns. I found a Charles Daly (made in the Phillipines, probably on the same machinery that Armscor makes theirs today) 1911 for about $400 ..... they are not a lot more today..... I still have it, and while not a "fine hadgun" it works, and I shoot it better than almost any other handgun ..... that 1911 trigger: even a bad one is better than maost any other.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/185717...-daly-1911--45

The .45 ACP is a great cartridge to learn to handload on as well .....
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:30 AM   #33
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easy

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The sights are what they are and for any other purpose then battle conditions they are lacking.
It was my impression that the M1911 was a military firearm,having said that
I'm having some difficulty thinking of the other purposes that a weapon designed
for war use might conceivably have.Then again..
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:33 AM   #34
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I'm having some difficulty thinking of the other purposes that a weapon designed
for war use might conceivably have.Then again..
I used mine as a pin gun ..... worked pretty well, too.
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Old August 18, 2014, 10:38 AM   #35
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They weren't very well built, they're pretty cheap. Just get a Glock. Etc. Im still wondering what this Hi-Point is.
Inexpensive, yes. "Cheap," no. RIAs are made by Armscor in the Philippines and comes from a state of the art facility in Luzon, outside of Manila. They are basically the suppliers to the Philippine military. All legitimate businesses in the Philippines usually have armed guards at the doors, and 98% of them carry Armscor weapons.

Another Philippine made 1911 copy comes from Shooter's Arms Manufacturing (SAM) of Cebu City, Cebu, and are sold here under the ATI brand name among others. Having examined both the SAM and Armscor guns side by side, I think the SAM guns are a little more refined insofar as fit and finish are concerned

It sounds to me like your LGS owner just has some ethnic prejudice.

Also it sounds like he wants to sell you a more expensive handgun.

I have put together 16 "shooters" so far using RIA/Armscor frames that I got from Sarco for $119.00 and all of them have been virtual drop-ins as far as parts are concerned and all of them have performed admirably for the persons for whom I made them.

Getting a frame and "making" your own 1911 might be something for you to consider.

Hi-Point is a line of large, bulky, ungainly pistols made from Zamak (i.e. pot metal, the same thing your window cranks are made of), and may rightly be called cheap as opposed to inexpensive. You can read the pros and cons of the Hi-Point in other threads.

Having had really bad experiences with four Turkish guns, I cannot recommend them. Others like them; I don't. YMMV

As teenagers in the 60s, our first pistols were .22s, and one in particular (which I still have) is a Ruger Standard with countless thousands of rounds through it. It's still a good shooter, although not very pretty anymore, and is still a lot of fun to shoot. Centerfire ammo can get expensive and .22 is not (at least when it gets back on the shelves).

My best advice is to start out with a good quality .22 which will give you a lifetime of fun, then work your way up to a CF pistol.

As always: YMMV
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:11 AM   #36
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1911s and variants have been used in virtually every form of competition from bullseye to ipsc/uspsa, idpa etc. Probably the number 1 gun in all of them and little to none are using gi sights and the stock grip safety.
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:18 AM   #37
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Centerfire ammo can get expensive and .22 is not (at least when it gets back on the shelves).
At between 5 and 10 cents a round, ".22 is not (expensive)" is just not so ...... it's very expensive for what it is ......
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:21 AM   #38
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At between 5 and 10 cents a round, ".22 is not (expensive)" is just not so ...... it's very expensive for what it is ......
True for now, but mainly because of the "shortage."
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moisin-marauder
What is a Hi-Point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moisin-marauder
Im still wondering what this Hi-Point is.
Do you by chance have access to the internet and a search engine? Shouldn't be hard to find out. Link below:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hi+point
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:52 AM   #40
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I own a Colt M1911 manufactured and delivered to Uncle Sam in 1918. It is on display and not a shooter.

I have a recently produced Remington R-1 plain jane I paid $550.00 new from a local gun store. It was produced in the USA out of Ilion, NY.

My next 1911 will also be a Remington R-1 plain jane produced in the USA out of Huntsville, AL.

It will be neat to have one with the Ilion, NY, USA marking on the frame and one as a twin with a Huntsville, AL, USA marking on the frame.

If you disregard the lack of a lanyard loop and the large Remington roll mark it is hard to distinguish the old Colt from the R-1. They are close to identical in appearance. Many other modern 1911s look more akin to the old M1911A1s.

Do not buy an old military M1911 and/or M1911A1 as a shooter. Also do not make the mistake of buying one without doing hours and hours of research from books, the internet, and pictures as a collector item.

Original military M1911/M1911A1 are rare birds. There are plenty available in mix-matched part and refinishes. This has either happened to them while they were in Government service or afterwards. The only other desirable M1911's are the Arsenal rebuilds, but you even have to be carefully with them.

Originals will cost you many thousands and even Arsenal rebuilds as they left the Arsenal can be worth a couple of grand.

Someone mentioned Singer. If you can find one of these in original condition, then you are talking 15 to 20 grand.

You may want to even buy Mr. Clawson's book "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Pistols Models of the 1911 and 1911A1". It alone might cost you several hundred dollars.

A correct magazine for some of the old military 1911s can cost up to a couple of hundred dollars.

Be very careful with the old ones since you can end up with a pistol not safe for firing modern ammo and at the same time not having collector appeal since they are mix-matches of parts and/or refinished.
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:53 AM   #41
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Personally, I think that chasing a 1911 for your first ever handgun is not the best idea. I don't think it must end it tragedy or failure if you go that route anyway, but I think there's better ways to go. I'll make my case against the 1911, I'll make my case for others, and you can take whatever you wish from it and I hope it serves you well.

The 1911 is an old design that does not lend itself as well to current manufacturing methods. There are many fantastic 1911 style pistols being built RIGHT NOW, but my argument is that to get a really decent 1911 that will make you happy for a very long time, it's a far better expenditure to spend some decent money to get it. I have no evidence, but it's my belief that very few (or nobody) was building cheap 1911 pistols until recently because you couldn't make a very good pistol without the time and expense to do so and it wasn't until the demand for these guns REALLY shot through the roof that everyone and their brother decided it would be lucrative to make one.

And it didn't take long after so many different manufacturers started building them (around the price it TAKES to build a decent one) before some unknown (to U.S. market) companies decided they could undercut the high dollar 1911's and get anyone on any budget a 1911 pistol for low dollars. That's when the RIA's, Taurus, ATI, Cimmaron and _______'s 1911 pistol started flowing between $400 and $500 dollars.

Maybe I'm just trying to apply my own experiences to your situation, but I think your first handgun should be better than that. So if it's 1911 or nothing, I'd be setting my sights quite a bit higher than RIA.

I also don't think that .45 is the best choice simply because of the economics of it. In factory ammo, you're looking at a significant leap in price from 9mm. And while I hope & expect that you'll definitely handload for it, the same argument applies. Comparing 9mm to .45 with their "standard" known range load, you are sending TWICE the volume of lead with each shot in .45. And at the load bench, the bullet is (by far, not even close) the most expensive part of the reloaded round, not including the brass case which we re-use. And getting a hold of 1000pics of 9mm is going to be cheaper than the same amount of .45 brass also.

Personally, I also believe that a very nice .22cal semi-auto would make a fantastic first handgun and you'd be doing more shooting for less money, and that would result in you becoming a better handgun shooter more quickly. But for sure, the experience of shooting a center fire is definitely different than a rimfire. I love my rimfire handguns and I've done a LOT of shooting with them, but it isn't the same as centerfire. I love it and would never give it up, but it's not the same experience.
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:55 AM   #42
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.22 is fairly common place around here. I have at least half a thousand on hand. I just don't like shooting .22's. Never have really. It's fun occasionally, as for me, I just like to know I'm shooting something. If you guys recommend it though, I could see about getting some sort of .22 Pistol.
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:55 AM   #43
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True for now, but mainly because of the "shortage."
I doubt we will see a return to inexpensive bulk .22lr ..... with the EPA regulating industry in general, and the lead smelting industry in particular, bulk .22lr will go the way of toilets that actually work*: regulated out of existence.


*you remember those- the 3 1/2 gallon per flush models of our youth, that did not require 3 flushes to empty the bowl? Hardware that lasted ...... well forever?
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Old August 18, 2014, 11:58 AM   #44
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I'll be interested to see what develops here and what you end up with. You must imagine that it's at least a little fun for many of us to see a young guy just getting rolling.

Unlike many who started shooting when they were 5, 6, 12 or whatever, I didn't take my first shots until I was 15 years old and I was 16 years and 3 months when I got my first ever handgun, a Smith & Wesson Model 17-6, six-inch barrel K-frame revolver, .22cal. To this day, it is one of my most prized possessions.

That was a gift. The first one I bought came six months later, and that was a six-inch Smith & Wesson Model 686, .357 Magnum, in stainless.

Both of these revolvers will outlast me and it won't be a close race. These will be just as good when someone inherits them as the day that I got them.
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Old August 18, 2014, 12:03 PM   #45
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Contacted the LGS today and asked if they have any of the 9E's in stock and how much they are. Haven't got an answer let, will yet you guys know. Thanks.
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Old August 18, 2014, 01:10 PM   #46
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I'd be setting my sights quite a bit higher than RIA.
What, in your opinion, is wrong with an RIA? Is it the materials? Construction? Inquiring minds want to know.

I've not heard a lot of people complain about them.
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Old August 18, 2014, 01:24 PM   #47
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I haven't gone through the thread with a fine-toothed comb, but if you're still looking for a 1911, I'd suggest taking the time to read bac1023's 1911 Buyer's Guide.
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Old August 18, 2014, 01:43 PM   #48
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What, in your opinion, is wrong with an RIA? Is it the materials? Construction? Inquiring minds want to know.

I've not heard a lot of people complain about them.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's "wrong", I just don't believe the 1911 is a platform best done on a shoestring budget, which a Rock Island pistol at $400-$500 is. You've obviously had fine experiences with them and I think that's terrific. And it sounds like you've used parts of them to build fine running pistols, perhaps you should get in touch with the OP's Dad and do a budget build for him.

I like a 1911 and I have a couple of them, but they aren't what I specifically chase. When my opinion is asked on a 1911, I start higher than a $500 budget. That's my comfort zone. YMMV.
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Old August 18, 2014, 01:44 PM   #49
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I think I might just get the Hungarian .32 ACP. I could start casting bullets for it and it'd be pretty economical. As far as I know, they're pretty good. Reliable and they go bang every time. Accurate too. I think it might just be a good beginner gun in place of a .22, since I can't reload .22.
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Old August 18, 2014, 02:02 PM   #50
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I just don't like shooting .22's. Never have really. It's fun occasionally, as for me, I just like to know I'm shooting something.
I'm with you. A few guys always come on these type threads singing the praises of .22... Not for me. And you mentioned .32 earlier... a wimpy round you won't be happy with either.

There are so many great and economical 9mm's to choose from in this era... Big choice is between polymer and metal (weight). I have a Ruger SRc (mine's in .40) and like it a lot. If you can swing the $ for an SR9c I think you'll be happy. Owning one is almost like having two guns because of the magazine/grip choice... One for carry, one for range. But if you won't be carrying, the 9E should be fine too if you can find one.

You might want to look here at some interesting inexpensive guns too:

http://www.classicfirearms.com/hand-guns?p=1

http://www.cdnnsports.com/media/wysi...log/index.html
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