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Old May 20, 2004, 09:14 PM   #1
kobun
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Join Date: February 17, 2002
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Baton, a good AF alternative

My (thankfully) only time I have used a expandable baton was on my last trip to South Africa.
Me and a good friend traveled around SA to go shooting IPSC matches and to explore the country for over three weeks, covering over 3800 miles.
We were both vigilant and were both armed at all times. He with a Glock 26, and me with a G34.
One evening while we were in Cape Town, we walked from our hotel to a bar and nightclub district to get a taste of the night life in Cape Town.
As we were walking, we always stayed split up.
He was a couple of steps ahead and to the side with me following behind.
This way we would be harder to surround, and the chance of one of us being able to cover the other greater.
We came to a intersection with traffic lights (For some odd reason they call them robots in SA).
Across the street diagonally we spotted a group of young men/boys, aged 12-18.
At this time we were alone on the street, and we noticed them looking at us.
There was 8 or 10 in the group.
As we crossed the street straight ahead, two of the younger boys came running up to us.
We imidiatly split up a little more.
The boys started hassling me for money.
My only reply was: "NO! GO AWAY!" While keeping my arms ready to repell any attack.
We kept walking for a few yards while I repeated the same sentence three or four times, all the while watching the two boys and the group that were keeping a keen eye on us.
This was a very stressfull situation, as I had been told of this kind of situation before, and that many times the beggin turns into a stabbing and a robbery.
When I saw that the boys did not respond very well to verbal comands, I still felt that the situation did not yet warrant pulling out a firearm in a public (although deserted) street.
What I did was pull up my sweater (it was about 60-65F) that covered my G34, two 20rnd mags, Surefire, knife and 16" baton.
I snapped the baton open while shouting "NO!".
They got the message...
The only way I can explain their reaction is by thinking about a cartoon caracter that when suprised, the eyes grow to dinner plate size.
That and one of them saying: "OH! What the F!" as they turned around and ran.
Me and my friend hurried up the street while watching for possible retaliation from the rest of the group.

Could we have done things differently?
In my oppinion, no.
If you spend your whole life trying to avoid problems, you will spend your life sitting at home.
In a culture as different as the one in S.Africa is, you never know when or where trouble will find you.
It can be at the airport, or it can be waiting for you in your hotel room.
I believe in staying vigilant and not paranoid.
See situations before they unfold, and train and equip yourselves accordingly.
K.
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Old May 21, 2004, 02:10 AM   #2
Spectre
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If I were forced into a defensive situation and could not employ a firearm, a 21" ASP would be one of my first choices.

John
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Old May 21, 2004, 07:21 AM   #3
mk86fcc
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...carry my 16" ASP every night on my evening walk. It gives me a certain sense of comfort...
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Old May 21, 2004, 07:28 AM   #4
C_Yeager
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ASPs can be fantastic weapons IF used right. Their proper use isnt necessarily intuitive. I wold highly recomend getting some training simply so that you can use it to its maximum potential.

There are two possible problems that the uninitiated run into with batons. Either using one innefectively (hitting too SOFTLY or in the wrong areas). And unintentianaly using it as a LETHAL weapon rather than the "less than lethal" force option it is intended to be.
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Old May 21, 2004, 08:07 AM   #5
Erich
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Join Date: January 8, 1999
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
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I want to like my baton more . . .

I bought a Monadnock autolock baton a few years back. It's a lovely tool, but I find myself carrying my Canemaster's Gent's cane instead of the collapsing baton. I find the baton a little unwieldy to carry (which is ironic, since the cane is bigger and heavier), and it's difficult for me to conceal it (I suppose I could put it in my SmartCarry . . . but then why not take a gun?) - and it freaks out people who see it (although the one time I snapped it out to confront a dog that was being aggressive toward my wife, the owner sure came to life to reel in the dog). The cane offers a more staid social profile and better reach, plus I can take it in the airport or into the prison when visiting clients (and in other places where a baton would not be welcome), and I have a letter from my orthopedic doc discussing how I need it for my arthritis.

So . . . I keep thinking of selling my Monadnock. It really is a lovely tool, though.
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Old May 21, 2004, 10:10 AM   #6
mk86fcc
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Quote:
Their proper use isnt necessarily intuitive. I wold highly recomend getting some training simply so that you can use it to its maximum potential.
You're absolutely right. I have. Anyone that hasn't should seriously consider other alternatives...
Quote:
I find the baton a little unwieldy to carry...
I have no problem slipping it in my right hip pocket - yes, it sticks out a bit, but it can easily be mistaken for a flashlight except by those that would already be familiar with it.
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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"People sleep peacably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Old May 23, 2004, 07:39 PM   #7
seeker_two
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Join Date: August 31, 2002
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I'd love to carry one here, but TX law forbids carrying ANY type of club, baton, or bat for SD...

I've known more than a few truckers who've been hassled by TX LEO's for even having a "tire thumper" in their truck cab...
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