Does the no safety thing put anyone else off buying a glock ?

Buzzkill · November 18, 2006, 02:43 PM

Hi guys

Ive recently got a chance to fire both a glock 19 and a glock 34 .Well i have to say im a now a glock fan

Im interested in getting a glock 17 or 22 but the no external saftey thing is bugging me a bit .I just wanted to know is there many reported cases of negligent discharges with glocks and is there any way to avoid them .

thanks guys
Bob

steveno · November 18, 2006, 03:00 PM

the only real safety is the one between the ears. the rest are just wannabes

kc-griz · November 18, 2006, 03:02 PM

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch and it won't go bang.

marlboroman84 · November 18, 2006, 03:07 PM

In the words of my firearms instructor "A safety will get you killed."

I mildly agree with that statement. Several people carry 1911 style firearms,Sigs,Berettas,etc and they all have external safeties. I think a safety is fine, but you have to really,REALLY,REALLY train with drawing it and flipping the safety off in one motion. I carry a Springfield XD and a Taurus .38 snubnose and neither one has a safety.

Like the above poster said, keep your booger hook off the bang switch and you'll be fine.

All that being said though, if you prefer a gun with a safety, carry what you're comfortable with, but I wouldn't discount the Glock just because it doesn't have a safety. On a Glock the safety is you, plain and simple.

Regards, Chuck

7th Fleet · November 18, 2006, 04:26 PM

The Glock pistol has everything that a good combat pistol requires (reliability, durability, accuracy, good ergonomics) along with a rust proof finish. What more could you ask in a life preserver.

7th

shaggycat · November 18, 2006, 04:34 PM

The best safety is your trigger finger. Anything else is superfluous.

rich52us · November 18, 2006, 04:34 PM

Glock HAS a manual safety. It's a "passive" safety mounted on the trigger and is deactivated only when you put your finger on the trigger. And when is the only time we put our finger on the trigger, class? Right! when we want to discharge the weapon.

On a 1911 style weapon, the safety is deactivated by the thumb, instead of the trigger finger. It should only be done when you have decided to discharge the weapon. It is something else that you have to think about because it is not "passive."

Glocks are safe even without a grip or thumb safety if the shooter does his part and handles the weapon with good judgement, just like all firearms.

There is the potential for negligent discharges with any style of weapon. It's all up to the operator. Remember, "negligent" means that someone did something wrong.

ralphb72 · November 18, 2006, 05:31 PM

Buzz, what noone has said is that there is an after-market safety you can buy or have installed on a Glock, I dont have any personal experience with this, just read about it yesterday, perhaps it is a piece of junk but read it on a glocktalk forum thing. I don't have a glock myself though so can't really recommend it. I do like the burger hook comment though and also read somewhere the other day (maybe on here) that all guns are loaded, always, if we say treat them as if they were loaded, then we really are diluting the rule that all guns are loaded, always.

Jamie Young · November 18, 2006, 05:44 PM

Don't carry a Glock if you don't think you have the proper mindset to carry one.

I've heard of more NDs with Glocks than any other pistol.

KurtC · November 18, 2006, 05:45 PM

There are plenty of reasons to not own a glock, but the lack of a manual safety is not one of them.

There are numerous high quality DAO and striker fired pistols by S&W, Beretta, Sig and HK that also do not have manual safeties.

RevolverLover · November 18, 2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

I just wanted to know is there many reported cases of negligent discharges with glocks and is there any way to avoid them .

Yeah, there are a few reported cases of ND's with glocks and the only way to avoid them is to keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to fire.

wayneinFL · November 18, 2006, 06:08 PM

If you're still worried about it put in a NY trigger. Makes it as safe as a double action revolver. You still can't do anything careless, like holstering your gun with your finger in the trigger guard. But you shouldn't be doing anything like that anyway.

denfoote · November 18, 2006, 06:09 PM

Not in the least!!!
I happen to have three of them. My wife has one!!
She won't own another gun!! In her words, she's a Glock girl!!

Kermit · November 18, 2006, 07:46 PM

No external safety? Then not only would you not like Glock, but you can add SIG's P-series, HK USPs & P2000's w/ LEM, Beretta DAO pistols, all wheelguns, Walther P99s, S&W's SW99 and all the other DAO or striker fired guns

The best safety is the one between your ears

kc-griz · November 18, 2006, 08:59 PM

Having the only safety built into the trigger is realistically NOT a safety at all. What I mean is, if that is Glock's idea of a safety, then I'll argue that a trigger by itself is the ultimate safety and every gun has one! The point is, don't pull the trigger and it won't go bang! Well, DUH!

The design flaw of the Glock is that if anything enters the trigger housing, a stick, an untucked shirt, a holster edge, whatever, it can easily depress the integral trigger safety thus unintentionally making the weapon ready to fire. Futher unintentional movement then discharges the weapon and the shooter may not be aware of the condition existed and in some cases may not even be holding the pistol!

Having an active grip safety and/or manual slide safety (when used) eliminates ANY and ALL chances of foreign objects or a misplaced finger from discharging the firearm. The gun simply will not discharge even if you yank on the trigger alone. So, while Glock claims to have a safety, it is practically and effectively USELESS as a safety device regardless of the claims of the manufacturer or user.

It's like having one of those golf carts that start the engine up when you press on the gas. If you keep your foot off the gas, it won't start thus theoretically, won't go anywhere unless you are in control of it and intentionally press the gas pedal. But it's possible that a golf bag or other weight may fall on the pedal when nobody is on the cart and it goes on a drive by itself. The pedal is has a built in safety, don't push it and the cart won't start and go. Poor ideology in safety design. Turn an ignition switch to off when not riding the cart and now it's truly safe even if the gas pedal is accidently depressed.

That said, fuctionality wise, I will concede and admit the Glock is a superb piece of machinery. It's butt ugly IMHO, but it's reliable, it's accurate, it's simple and it goes bang everytime the trigger is pulled which by the way is also it's biggest most glaring problem.

Glockamolie · November 18, 2006, 09:08 PM

If you're not safe with a G, you're not safe with any other firearm, either.

kc-griz · November 18, 2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

If you're not safe with a G, you're not safe with any other firearm, either.

Nice to say, but no meat to the statement. Akin to saying if you're not safe driving an F1 MacLaren, you're not safe driving a Volvo. Both of these are untrue statements.

Case and point; put two pistols in a ransom rest.

Pistol 1: Generic (your choice) model 1911 action pistol. Full mag, 1 in chamber. Condition 1, hammer cocked. All safeties engaged.

Pistol 2: Glock ##. Full mag, 1 in chamber. All safeties engaged.

Insert a stick into the trigger housing both pistols simulating a foreign object, NOT your finger. Rattle it around. Push, pull, twist and get rough with it.

Result:
1911: no change, full mag, one in chamber.
Glock.... BANG, BANG.. BANG.... etc. Empty mag, slide back.

Why did the Glock's safety fail resulting in a discharge? Answer: It didn't. It performed exactly as designed.

Rangefinder · November 18, 2006, 11:28 PM

Nope. A manual safety on a weapon is a false sense of security for someone who is A) irresponsible in their handling whether by lack of respect, lack of training, or both. --or-- B) Someone who is not confident/comfortable/mindful in their own abilities to discharge the weapon only when they fully intend to. In the case of any weapon, your finger should not be on the trigger at all until you are ready and prepared to fire that weapon. So as stated above, the only real safety to any weapon is the one between your ears. Everything else is irrelivant if that one isn't functioning.

jlh26oo · November 18, 2006, 11:41 PM

Nope.

ExtremeDooty · November 19, 2006, 12:42 AM

The passive safety on the XD was the deciding factor when I bought it for CCW. If I need it in a hurry, all I have to do is get it out of it's holster and it's ready to go. Any other time, I just keep my finger off the trigger until I want to shoot it.

OTOH, you should buy what you're comfortable with.

Axion · November 19, 2006, 04:33 AM

Yes and here's an example why: http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/ad.html

In this case the operator was not, IMO, being overly careless and this is the kind of thing that could easily happen if one's attention slips just for a bit. I also feel that either having a safety or a heavier first pull would make this kind of thing less likely to happen.

DeathRodent · November 19, 2006, 05:02 AM

I wish the glock did offer a manual safety and here's why

http://www.clipdraw.com/

Would you feel safe sticking a glock in your waistband using the clipdraw?

I wouldn't.

That plus the previous post about a foreign object getting into the trigger gaurd of a Glock vs. a 1911 makes me like a saftey - different strokes for different folks - you can always leave it off if you have it but you can't put in on if you don't.

Playboypenguin · November 19, 2006, 05:15 AM

It is not the lack of safety that prevents me from buying one. it is the fact that i find them horribly ugly.

paramedic70002 · November 19, 2006, 08:28 AM

One situation that a manual safety is great at, a successful gun grab. Gives you a few seconds while the BG tries to figure out why your gun isn't going BANG. Manual safeties aren't for everyone, but there's no reason to insult people on this forum just because they prefer them.

Daves-got-guns · November 19, 2006, 08:36 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY do u think this guy mite want to consider a safety

, or not pickin up little bang bangs. Allegedly a dea agent and obviously somebody made the mistake of putting him in the same room with a gun and live ammo but i would bet that doesnt happen again for alittle while

November 18, 2006, 02:43 PM	#1
Buzzkill Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2005 Posts: 138	Does the no safety thing put anyone else off buying a glock ? Hi guys Ive recently got a chance to fire both a glock 19 and a glock 34 .Well i have to say im a now a glock fan Im interested in getting a glock 17 or 22 but the no external saftey thing is bugging me a bit .I just wanted to know is there many reported cases of negligent discharges with glocks and is there any way to avoid them . thanks guys Bob

November 18, 2006, 03:07 PM	#4
marlboroman84 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: Memphis,TN Posts: 541	In the words of my firearms instructor "A safety will get you killed." I mildly agree with that statement. Several people carry 1911 style firearms,Sigs,Berettas,etc and they all have external safeties. I think a safety is fine, but you have to really,REALLY,REALLY train with drawing it and flipping the safety off in one motion. I carry a Springfield XD and a Taurus .38 snubnose and neither one has a safety. Like the above poster said, keep your booger hook off the bang switch and you'll be fine. All that being said though, if you prefer a gun with a safety, carry what you're comfortable with, but I wouldn't discount the Glock just because it doesn't have a safety. On a Glock the safety is you, plain and simple. Regards, Chuck __________________ Ban Liberals, not guns! ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE (mo-lone lah-veh)

November 18, 2006, 04:26 PM	#5
7th Fleet Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,469	The Glock pistol has everything that a good combat pistol requires (reliability, durability, accuracy, good ergonomics) along with a rust proof finish. What more could you ask in a life preserver. 7th __________________ SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

November 18, 2006, 05:44 PM	#9
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	Don't carry a Glock if you don't think you have the proper mindset to carry one. I've heard of more NDs with Glocks than any other pistol. __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!!

November 18, 2006, 06:08 PM	#12
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	If you're still worried about it put in a NY trigger. Makes it as safe as a double action revolver. You still can't do anything careless, like holstering your gun with your finger in the trigger guard. But you shouldn't be doing anything like that anyway. Last edited by wayneinFL; November 18, 2006 at 06:09 PM. Reason: oops

November 18, 2006, 03:00 PM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	the only real safety is the one between the ears. the rest are just wannabes

November 18, 2006, 03:02 PM	#3
kc-griz Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2006 Location: NW MO Posts: 145	Keep your booger hook off the bang switch and it won't go bang.

November 18, 2006, 04:34 PM	#6
shaggycat Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Posts: 20	The best safety is your trigger finger. Anything else is superfluous.

November 18, 2006, 04:34 PM	#7
rich52us Member Join Date: May 9, 2006 Posts: 79	Glock HAS a manual safety. It's a "passive" safety mounted on the trigger and is deactivated only when you put your finger on the trigger. And when is the only time we put our finger on the trigger, class? Right! when we want to discharge the weapon. On a 1911 style weapon, the safety is deactivated by the thumb, instead of the trigger finger. It should only be done when you have decided to discharge the weapon. It is something else that you have to think about because it is not "passive." Glocks are safe even without a grip or thumb safety if the shooter does his part and handles the weapon with good judgement, just like all firearms. There is the potential for negligent discharges with any style of weapon. It's all up to the operator. Remember, "negligent" means that someone did something wrong.

November 18, 2006, 05:31 PM	#8
ralphb72 Member Join Date: October 24, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 22	Buzz, what noone has said is that there is an after-market safety you can buy or have installed on a Glock, I dont have any personal experience with this, just read about it yesterday, perhaps it is a piece of junk but read it on a glocktalk forum thing. I don't have a glock myself though so can't really recommend it. I do like the burger hook comment though and also read somewhere the other day (maybe on here) that all guns are loaded, always, if we say treat them as if they were loaded, then we really are diluting the rule that all guns are loaded, always.

November 18, 2006, 05:45 PM	#10
KurtC Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Posts: 476	There are plenty of reasons to not own a glock, but the lack of a manual safety is not one of them. There are numerous high quality DAO and striker fired pistols by S&W, Beretta, Sig and HK that also do not have manual safeties.

November 18, 2006, 06:09 PM	#13
denfoote Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Location: Buckeye Arizona Posts: 5,526	Does the no safety thing put anyone else off buying a glock ? Not in the least!!! I happen to have three of them. My wife has one!! She won't own another gun!! In her words, she's a Glock girl!! __________________ Ich bin kein Nationalsozialist!!!!!! Ich bin Republikaner!!!!!!!! Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset. Arizona: Flush the Johns!!!

November 18, 2006, 07:46 PM	#14
Kermit Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,020	No external safety? Then not only would you not like Glock, but you can add SIG's P-series, HK USPs & P2000's w/ LEM, Beretta DAO pistols, all wheelguns, Walther P99s, S&W's SW99 and all the other DAO or striker fired guns The best safety is the one between your ears

November 18, 2006, 08:59 PM	#15
kc-griz Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2006 Location: NW MO Posts: 145	Having the only safety built into the trigger is realistically NOT a safety at all. What I mean is, if that is Glock's idea of a safety, then I'll argue that a trigger by itself is the ultimate safety and every gun has one! The point is, don't pull the trigger and it won't go bang! Well, DUH! The design flaw of the Glock is that if anything enters the trigger housing, a stick, an untucked shirt, a holster edge, whatever, it can easily depress the integral trigger safety thus unintentionally making the weapon ready to fire. Futher unintentional movement then discharges the weapon and the shooter may not be aware of the condition existed and in some cases may not even be holding the pistol! Having an active grip safety and/or manual slide safety (when used) eliminates ANY and ALL chances of foreign objects or a misplaced finger from discharging the firearm. The gun simply will not discharge even if you yank on the trigger alone. So, while Glock claims to have a safety, it is practically and effectively USELESS as a safety device regardless of the claims of the manufacturer or user. It's like having one of those golf carts that start the engine up when you press on the gas. If you keep your foot off the gas, it won't start thus theoretically, won't go anywhere unless you are in control of it and intentionally press the gas pedal. But it's possible that a golf bag or other weight may fall on the pedal when nobody is on the cart and it goes on a drive by itself. The pedal is has a built in safety, don't push it and the cart won't start and go. Poor ideology in safety design. Turn an ignition switch to off when not riding the cart and now it's truly safe even if the gas pedal is accidently depressed. That said, fuctionality wise, I will concede and admit the Glock is a superb piece of machinery. It's butt ugly IMHO, but it's reliable, it's accurate, it's simple and it goes bang everytime the trigger is pulled which by the way is also it's biggest most glaring problem.

November 18, 2006, 09:08 PM	#16
Glockamolie Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 359	If you're not safe with a G, you're not safe with any other firearm, either. __________________ Brandon

November 18, 2006, 11:28 PM	#18
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	Nope. A manual safety on a weapon is a false sense of security for someone who is A) irresponsible in their handling whether by lack of respect, lack of training, or both. --or-- B) Someone who is not confident/comfortable/mindful in their own abilities to discharge the weapon only when they fully intend to. In the case of any weapon, your finger should not be on the trigger at all until you are ready and prepared to fire that weapon. So as stated above, the only real safety to any weapon is the one between your ears. Everything else is irrelivant if that one isn't functioning. __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

November 18, 2006, 11:41 PM	#19
jlh26oo Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 504	In a word... Nope.

November 19, 2006, 12:42 AM	#20
ExtremeDooty Member Join Date: November 26, 2002 Location: Beautiful Colorado Posts: 92	The passive safety on the XD was the deciding factor when I bought it for CCW. If I need it in a hurry, all I have to do is get it out of it's holster and it's ready to go. Any other time, I just keep my finger off the trigger until I want to shoot it. OTOH, you should buy what you're comfortable with. __________________ Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. Isaac Asimov

November 19, 2006, 04:33 AM	#21
Axion Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 619	Yes and here's an example why: http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/ad.html In this case the operator was not, IMO, being overly careless and this is the kind of thing that could easily happen if one's attention slips just for a bit. I also feel that either having a safety or a heavier first pull would make this kind of thing less likely to happen.

November 19, 2006, 05:02 AM	#22
DeathRodent Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2006 Posts: 209	I wish the glock did offer a manual safety and here's why http://www.clipdraw.com/ Would you feel safe sticking a glock in your waistband using the clipdraw? I wouldn't. That plus the previous post about a foreign object getting into the trigger gaurd of a Glock vs. a 1911 makes me like a saftey - different strokes for different folks - you can always leave it off if you have it but you can't put in on if you don't.

November 19, 2006, 05:15 AM	#23
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	It is not the lack of safety that prevents me from buying one. it is the fact that i find them horribly ugly.

November 19, 2006, 08:28 AM	#24
paramedic70002 Member Join Date: July 11, 2006 Location: Franklin, VA Posts: 93	One situation that a manual safety is great at, a successful gun grab. Gives you a few seconds while the BG tries to figure out why your gun isn't going BANG. Manual safeties aren't for everyone, but there's no reason to insult people on this forum just because they prefer them.

November 19, 2006, 08:36 AM	#25
Daves-got-guns Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2006 Location: Marysville Washington Posts: 291	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY do u think this guy mite want to consider a safety , or not pickin up little bang bangs. Allegedly a dea agent and obviously somebody made the mistake of putting him in the same room with a gun and live ammo but i would bet that doesnt happen again for alittle while