Implications of carrying concealed and having a medical emergency

Rich Miranda · September 30, 2009, 01:52 AM

About a week ago I took my daughter to the dentist. I have my CHL and, as usual, I carried my SP101 with me. While we waited for her to be seen, I felt a twinge of pain in my back, which quickly progressed. I've been through it twice before, so it only took a few seconds to realize what it was: a kidney stone.

Since I knew the pain and immobility that what was to come, I quickly and quietly warned my daughter (she's nine) so that she wouldn't be scared when I doubled over, turned beet red, and writhed in agony.

My next thought was my gun. If the dentist ended up calling 911 (a logical act), I would rather not have to explain it, or expose the EMTs to it. The only place I could put it, of course, was back in the car. My fear was that I might not make it there in time since I felt the intense pain was impending. But I had no choice. So, I rushed out and, as inconspicuously as possible, stored the SP101 under the seat.

I never made it back. I sat there in my car and 'birthed' my stone. Actually, it wasn't quite as bad as before, but still very painful. It only lasted about three minutes (I'm guessing here, since it felt like 20). When it passed I felt an odd sensation of pleasure in my back, which I think was my body's way of saying, "Glad that's over!". I didn't put my gun back on that day. It just didn't feel right.

Anyway, this situation brings up the implications of carrying concealed and having some type of medical emergency. Do you have a plan for this? Have you even thought about it? (Honestly, I had not.) What are some of the implications? If you do have some type of plan, please share.

Thanks for reading.

- Rich

Jim March · September 30, 2009, 02:24 AM

It's really no different from telling a cop who pulled you over that you're strapped. "I have a legally concealed weapon, I'm a permitholder, I don't mean you any threat, if I'm going to be put in an ambulance or put under heavy pain medication it might be best if we have a cop hold it, or you might have a secure storage place in your ambulance."

Basically, don't let THEM find it, be cool, let 'em know you're not hostile, it's all good. You WILL get it back unless you really screwed up (like, say, this is a DUI scene post-crash or something).

The REAL tricky aspect of this is if you're either prone to diabetic crashes that make you look drunk, or an epileptic. THAT, you have to really be careful with. But if you've basically got your wits about you, shouldn't be an issue.

Hmmm.

One more case where it can get tricky is concussions. We have recent video of somebody who was concussed but despite that, managed to handle himself fairly well, including continue with his job: Conan O'Brien. Check this out as it's actually on-topic to the discussion:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/0...injured-video/

Look at what he was able to do despite taking a serious conking and not even remembering most of it afterwards...yes, the whole thing is worth watching. If you KNOW for a fact that you need to tell medics politely that you're legally strapped and will let a cop or medic disarm you, you should be able to pull that off despite at least a moderate concussion. At some point of course even that much will go out the window, but at the same time I know of no concussion victim who has ever gotten deliberately violent with weapons due to a conking.

Random flailing of arms, well yeah...that can happen...

troy_mclure · September 30, 2009, 02:50 AM

my buddy was in a car wreck in Seattle, he was unconscious when the paramedics took him to the hospital. when the er docs found the gun they called the police.

the police checked his wallet and found his cpl. they took the gun, and left a note with the docs that he could pick up his gun from the local pd when he was discharged.

he got out 2 weeks later and called the pd, they said come on and pick it up.

the gun and mag/ammo was in an evidence bag when they gave it to him, still had a bit of blood on it.

took all of an hour to get it.

Jim March · September 30, 2009, 03:50 AM

Cool. And remember, flat-out unconscious is an uncommon situation...

kraigwy · September 30, 2009, 09:41 AM

A few year ago, I was having heart pains. We went to the heart doctors and after an exam (MRI or what ever) he said he needed to put stints in RIGHT NOW.

No problem, they took my pants, saw there was a gun in my pocket, gave the pants to my wife, she put my revolver in her purse handed the pants back to the nurse who bag them with the rest of my cloths so they could be in my room after the procedure.

No body paniced. Wife gave me my revoler back after I able to put my britches back on.

There was no problems, .....................not until I got caught smoking in the john in the room but thats another story.

#18indycolts · September 30, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

And remember, flat-out unconscious is an uncommon situation...

actually I see it often. As a medic/firefighter I go on numerous unconscious person calls.

fisherman66 · September 30, 2009, 11:40 AM

A 3 minute kidney stone? Wow, mine go fer hour and hours. I alternate tall glasses of water and beers until the bastid is gone. Oh how I hate kidney stones.

Brian Pfleuger · September 30, 2009, 11:43 AM

I can't say that the issue particularly concerns me. If I'm conscious then I'll alert whoever needs alerting. It's not like they're not going to treat you if they find out you've got a gun. Most people aren't going to panic if the guy laying on the floor writhing in pain or unconscious appears to have a gun under his shirt. If I'm unconscious then I'm pretty sure that I don't really care how it gets handled. It's a legal gun, under legal circumstances... I'll get it back if they take it.

TEDDY · September 30, 2009, 12:56 PM

I know a person who had it happen twice.he was on a motercycle and some one came up behind and clipped him on purpose.he scided in and was out.the police arrived first and took his gun.gave it back when he asked for it. happened again the same way.and thats in Mass.

Don H · September 30, 2009, 06:39 PM

Lots of folks carry guns around here, both open and concealed; medical responders are pretty used to such things. If I have a medical emergency, my handgun is going to be pretty low on my list of things to be concerned about.

rantingredneck · September 30, 2009, 07:14 PM

Closest I've come is when I had my treestand fall a couple years ago. I wasn't carrying a gun as I was bowhunting and that's a no-no here per the game regulations. What I did have though was my hunting knife. One of the first things the EMT's did was take it and give it to my wife. I expect the same would have happened with a gun. If no one else had been there I expect they'd have stored it somewhere or handed it off to LE.

Yankee Traveler · September 30, 2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

A 3 minute kidney stone? Wow, mine go fer hour and hours. I alternate tall glasses of water and beers until the bastid is gone. Oh how I hate kidney stones.

My first took three days...seriously ill by the time it passed.

Superhouse 15 · September 30, 2009, 10:01 PM

My last stone I was able to stagger to the car to put my gun away. Then there was a haze of narcotics and I got better.

We run on people armed all the time. Hardly ever an issue, mostly we leave them with family or LEO. My agency, the other big fire rescue agencies, and the transport ambulance company in the area have no official policies on the subject.

And FYI, when you pick up the lady for the nursing home transfer and she has that big bag of meds and belongings, you might want to check it before you get to the ED in case there's a Taurus .38 snub in the bottom.

That charge nurse still looks at me sideways after that one.

Kyo · September 30, 2009, 10:09 PM

unless they roll me over they won't find it regardless. 4-5 oclock pretty much hides it from the front view.

armoredman · September 30, 2009, 10:15 PM

No issues out here, but after reading these posts - I hope I never have a kidney stone!

DT Guy · October 2, 2009, 01:22 AM

I've had two stones in my life-the last took SIX DAYS to pass. Two trips to the ER, and two separate overnights in the hospital. Immobile for the entire time, and in agony, with nothing anyone could do-hell, I passed out and tipped over in the admitting room!

If you get one, pray it's not up high-apparently that's the worst spot?

I've told my wife that if I get a third I'm going to end it all.

Larry

brickeyee · October 2, 2009, 02:48 PM

Every ER knows to call the police and let them deal with any firearm.

It is SOP to get it out of the ER and under lock and key.
Many ERs maintain lockers for securing even police firearms if needed.

Russ5924 · October 2, 2009, 05:01 PM

Have always wondered about this subject and what would happen

Win73 · October 2, 2009, 10:52 PM

I was in a car wreck in 03. I was taken to the emergency room in an ambulance. I had my Beretta .32 Tomcat in my pants pocket. I really wasn't concerned as much about it as I was of the pain I was in. Anyway no one knew it was there. When my family got there and there was no one else in the examining room, I gave it to my son who carryed it out of the hospital with him. (He has a permit also.) No one in the hospital ever knew I had it.

armsmaster270 · October 2, 2009, 11:06 PM

No biggie injured cops are taken to the hospital all the time. EMT's have seen them before and if its illegal to take a weapon into a hospital I'm sure there are proceedures for an emergency where you are taken into the hospital as opposed to walking in on your own.

teeroux · October 3, 2009, 02:24 AM

Just tell the EMT no ma'am thats my gun I am not happy to seel you.

Seriously though if I am ever in a situation involving myself being transported in an ambulance what they do with my gun will be the last thing on my mind.

wun_8_seven · October 3, 2009, 06:59 AM

when i had my heart attack in 2005 some kind soul stoled my wallet and my kahr mk40

Chipperman · October 3, 2009, 07:53 AM

Happened to me once, about 4 years ago.

Had a bad GI virus, severe vomiting. I was at work when it hit, and was carrying. Got so weak that I knew I needed IV fluids. A coworker drove me to the ER and dropped me off.

When they took me in the back the nurse told me to get undressed and into the hospital gown. At that point I was too weak to even stand up. I told her I had a license and was carrying. She called hospital security, and they took the gun, mag, knives, Leatherman and put it into a bag. Nobody freaked out , and they were very professional about it. The next day I checked out of the hospital and got my stuff from security. They had me sign it out and I was on my way. Took about 30 seconds. This was in MA, too.

Double Naught Spy · October 3, 2009, 08:19 AM

Yeah, I think that by now, most paramedics and hospitals have seen this sort of thing enough times for it to be a SOP issue. Most would probably be a lot more troubled and unequipped to deal with you if you came in with a helper animal (dog, monkey, pony) than with a firearm.

Keep in mind that medical establishments have been dealing with firearms pretty much since medical establishments were first started in the US and have continued to have to deal with them because of the number of police and security personnel they end up treating. Now with concealed carry, at least in larger metro areas, it is probably not only SOP, but a regular event.

tacticalmedic · October 3, 2009, 10:17 AM

If you are ever in an emergency, please tell EMS or FD that you have a weapon. We will not freak out. Our SOP for this is to secure the weapon in our Narc box, if there is no PD on scene. We give it to the PD once they arrive. If there is PD on scene then they take it. In 21 yrs of EMS I have found numerous weapons on people from all walks of life. I usually take a look at what they are carrying and see if we can work out a trade

!

September 30, 2009, 02:24 AM	#2
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	It's really no different from telling a cop who pulled you over that you're strapped. "I have a legally concealed weapon, I'm a permitholder, I don't mean you any threat, if I'm going to be put in an ambulance or put under heavy pain medication it might be best if we have a cop hold it, or you might have a secure storage place in your ambulance." Basically, don't let THEM find it, be cool, let 'em know you're not hostile, it's all good. You WILL get it back unless you really screwed up (like, say, this is a DUI scene post-crash or something). The REAL tricky aspect of this is if you're either prone to diabetic crashes that make you look drunk, or an epileptic. THAT, you have to really be careful with. But if you've basically got your wits about you, shouldn't be an issue. Hmmm. One more case where it can get tricky is concussions. We have recent video of somebody who was concussed but despite that, managed to handle himself fairly well, including continue with his job: Conan O'Brien. Check this out as it's actually on-topic to the discussion: http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/0...injured-video/ Look at what he was able to do despite taking a serious conking and not even remembering most of it afterwards...yes, the whole thing is worth watching. If you KNOW for a fact that you need to tell medics politely that you're legally strapped and will let a cop or medic disarm you, you should be able to pull that off despite at least a moderate concussion. At some point of course even that much will go out the window, but at the same time I know of no concussion victim who has ever gotten deliberately violent with weapons due to a conking. Random flailing of arms, well yeah...that can happen... __________________ Jim March

September 30, 2009, 02:50 AM	#3
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	my buddy was in a car wreck in Seattle, he was unconscious when the paramedics took him to the hospital. when the er docs found the gun they called the police. the police checked his wallet and found his cpl. they took the gun, and left a note with the docs that he could pick up his gun from the local pd when he was discharged. he got out 2 weeks later and called the pd, they said come on and pick it up. the gun and mag/ammo was in an evidence bag when they gave it to him, still had a bit of blood on it. took all of an hour to get it. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

September 30, 2009, 03:50 AM	#4
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Cool. And remember, flat-out unconscious is an uncommon situation... __________________ Jim March

September 30, 2009, 09:41 AM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	A few year ago, I was having heart pains. We went to the heart doctors and after an exam (MRI or what ever) he said he needed to put stints in RIGHT NOW. No problem, they took my pants, saw there was a gun in my pocket, gave the pants to my wife, she put my revolver in her purse handed the pants back to the nurse who bag them with the rest of my cloths so they could be in my room after the procedure. No body paniced. Wife gave me my revoler back after I able to put my britches back on. There was no problems, .....................not until I got caught smoking in the john in the room but thats another story. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 30, 2009, 11:40 AM	#7
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,679	A 3 minute kidney stone? Wow, mine go fer hour and hours. I alternate tall glasses of water and beers until the bastid is gone. Oh how I hate kidney stones. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

September 30, 2009, 01:52 AM	#1
Rich Miranda Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2008 Location: San Antonio, not San Antone... Posts: 1,203	Implications of carrying concealed and having a medical emergency About a week ago I took my daughter to the dentist. I have my CHL and, as usual, I carried my SP101 with me. While we waited for her to be seen, I felt a twinge of pain in my back, which quickly progressed. I've been through it twice before, so it only took a few seconds to realize what it was: a kidney stone. Since I knew the pain and immobility that what was to come, I quickly and quietly warned my daughter (she's nine) so that she wouldn't be scared when I doubled over, turned beet red, and writhed in agony. My next thought was my gun. If the dentist ended up calling 911 (a logical act), I would rather not have to explain it, or expose the EMTs to it. The only place I could put it, of course, was back in the car. My fear was that I might not make it there in time since I felt the intense pain was impending. But I had no choice. So, I rushed out and, as inconspicuously as possible, stored the SP101 under the seat. I never made it back. I sat there in my car and 'birthed' my stone. Actually, it wasn't quite as bad as before, but still very painful. It only lasted about three minutes (I'm guessing here, since it felt like 20). When it passed I felt an odd sensation of pleasure in my back, which I think was my body's way of saying, "Glad that's over!". I didn't put my gun back on that day. It just didn't feel right. Anyway, this situation brings up the implications of carrying concealed and having some type of medical emergency. Do you have a plan for this? Have you even thought about it? (Honestly, I had not.) What are some of the implications? If you do have some type of plan, please share. Thanks for reading. - Rich __________________ Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it.

September 30, 2009, 11:43 AM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I can't say that the issue particularly concerns me. If I'm conscious then I'll alert whoever needs alerting. It's not like they're not going to treat you if they find out you've got a gun. Most people aren't going to panic if the guy laying on the floor writhing in pain or unconscious appears to have a gun under his shirt. If I'm unconscious then I'm pretty sure that I don't really care how it gets handled. It's a legal gun, under legal circumstances... I'll get it back if they take it. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

September 30, 2009, 12:56 PM	#9
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	gun carry I know a person who had it happen twice.he was on a motercycle and some one came up behind and clipped him on purpose.he scided in and was out.the police arrived first and took his gun.gave it back when he asked for it. happened again the same way.and thats in Mass.

September 30, 2009, 06:39 PM	#10
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	Lots of folks carry guns around here, both open and concealed; medical responders are pretty used to such things. If I have a medical emergency, my handgun is going to be pretty low on my list of things to be concerned about. __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

September 30, 2009, 07:14 PM	#11
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	Closest I've come is when I had my treestand fall a couple years ago. I wasn't carrying a gun as I was bowhunting and that's a no-no here per the game regulations. What I did have though was my hunting knife. One of the first things the EMT's did was take it and give it to my wife. I expect the same would have happened with a gun. If no one else had been there I expect they'd have stored it somewhere or handed it off to LE. __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

September 30, 2009, 10:01 PM	#13
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 844	My last stone I was able to stagger to the car to put my gun away. Then there was a haze of narcotics and I got better. We run on people armed all the time. Hardly ever an issue, mostly we leave them with family or LEO. My agency, the other big fire rescue agencies, and the transport ambulance company in the area have no official policies on the subject. And FYI, when you pick up the lady for the nursing home transfer and she has that big bag of meds and belongings, you might want to check it before you get to the ED in case there's a Taurus .38 snub in the bottom. That charge nurse still looks at me sideways after that one.

September 30, 2009, 10:09 PM	#14
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	unless they roll me over they won't find it regardless. 4-5 oclock pretty much hides it from the front view. __________________ 1. The gun is *always* loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. 4. Be be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

September 30, 2009, 10:15 PM	#15
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	No issues out here, but after reading these posts - I hope I never have a kidney stone!

October 2, 2009, 01:22 AM	#16
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	I've had two stones in my life-the last took SIX DAYS to pass. Two trips to the ER, and two separate overnights in the hospital. Immobile for the entire time, and in agony, with nothing anyone could do-hell, I passed out and tipped over in the admitting room! If you get one, pray it's not up high-apparently that's the worst spot? I've told my wife that if I get a third I'm going to end it all. Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

October 2, 2009, 02:48 PM	#17
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	Every ER knows to call the police and let them deal with any firearm. It is SOP to get it out of the ER and under lock and key. Many ERs maintain lockers for securing even police firearms if needed.

October 2, 2009, 05:01 PM	#18
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	Have always wondered about this subject and what would happen __________________ Russ5924

October 2, 2009, 10:52 PM	#19
Win73 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 401	I was in a car wreck in 03. I was taken to the emergency room in an ambulance. I had my Beretta .32 Tomcat in my pants pocket. I really wasn't concerned as much about it as I was of the pain I was in. Anyway no one knew it was there. When my family got there and there was no one else in the examining room, I gave it to my son who carryed it out of the hospital with him. (He has a permit also.) No one in the hospital ever knew I had it. __________________ (Luke 11:21 KJV) When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: (Luke 22:36 KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

October 2, 2009, 11:06 PM	#20
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	No biggie injured cops are taken to the hospital all the time. EMT's have seen them before and if its illegal to take a weapon into a hospital I'm sure there are proceedures for an emergency where you are taken into the hospital as opposed to walking in on your own. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 3, 2009, 02:24 AM	#21
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	Just tell the EMT no ma'am thats my gun I am not happy to seel you. Seriously though if I am ever in a situation involving myself being transported in an ambulance what they do with my gun will be the last thing on my mind.

October 3, 2009, 06:59 AM	#22
wun_8_seven Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 195	when i had my heart attack in 2005 some kind soul stoled my wallet and my kahr mk40 Last edited by wun_8_seven; October 3, 2009 at 09:02 PM.

October 3, 2009, 07:53 AM	#23
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	Happened to me once, about 4 years ago. Had a bad GI virus, severe vomiting. I was at work when it hit, and was carrying. Got so weak that I knew I needed IV fluids. A coworker drove me to the ER and dropped me off. When they took me in the back the nurse told me to get undressed and into the hospital gown. At that point I was too weak to even stand up. I told her I had a license and was carrying. She called hospital security, and they took the gun, mag, knives, Leatherman and put it into a bag. Nobody freaked out , and they were very professional about it. The next day I checked out of the hospital and got my stuff from security. They had me sign it out and I was on my way. Took about 30 seconds. This was in MA, too.

October 3, 2009, 08:19 AM	#24
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Yeah, I think that by now, most paramedics and hospitals have seen this sort of thing enough times for it to be a SOP issue. Most would probably be a lot more troubled and unequipped to deal with you if you came in with a helper animal (dog, monkey, pony) than with a firearm. Keep in mind that medical establishments have been dealing with firearms pretty much since medical establishments were first started in the US and have continued to have to deal with them because of the number of police and security personnel they end up treating. Now with concealed carry, at least in larger metro areas, it is probably not only SOP, but a regular event. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

October 3, 2009, 10:17 AM	#25
tacticalmedic Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 193	If you are ever in an emergency, please tell EMS or FD that you have a weapon. We will not freak out. Our SOP for this is to secure the weapon in our Narc box, if there is no PD on scene. We give it to the PD once they arrive. If there is PD on scene then they take it. In 21 yrs of EMS I have found numerous weapons on people from all walks of life. I usually take a look at what they are carrying and see if we can work out a trade!