Does exercise mean better shooting?

waynedm · February 21, 2007, 06:39 PM

We all talk about things we can do to our triggers ect to make our shooting better. We talk about dry firing, grib technique, trigger control and stance and wearing lucky hats while shooting all to get better groups in less time.

Something that's never been mentioned is exercise. How many of you do certain exercises to try and better your control of the gun or yourself in whatever type of shooting you do and what exactly do you do?

Carlo · February 21, 2007, 07:02 PM

One thing that is important, in the kind of shooting I do (traditional one hand bullseye), is feeling the stance. Too much attention is devoted to what happens from the chest to the head, but feet, legs and torso are very important as well. You can spoil a shot by tensing toes or legs muscles, or by turning your hips. The moment the shot is released, all the body relaxes, in the sense that muscular tension meant to correct body alignment falls apart, so the shot goes were your body is really pointing. Breathing control has its importance too, learning to lift the gun and go down of the target the right way means also being able to retain a constant quantity of air, enough to take the shot with fresh eyes, but not enough to tense.
Feeling the stance and breathing control can be practiced without the gun in hand, by just doing lifts to the target. The former is also achieved by lifting up and closing the eyes for some time.
Another important element is follow through, not lowering the gun as the shot goes off, pretending to have a second shot to take helps not to lower the weapon too soon in slow fire.
For rapid fire, I like to mentally count the shots, so that I acquire a sort of time control rhythm, that is: now(1)--now(2)--now(3)--etc...

Carlo

dairycreek · February 21, 2007, 07:03 PM

Exercise certainly helps me to be a better shooter. First, I am 70 years old and, of course, exercise helps me do just about everything I can do better. But, when it comes to shooting, I concentrate on a weight lifting program to increase my upper and lower body strength. I stand more firmly and my grip and presentation are also a lot steadier. Exercise sure helps for me.

BreacherUp! · February 21, 2007, 09:04 PM

the benefits of exercise certainly help. lower heart rate as a result of cardio conditioning, thus decreasing wobble area of the sight picture, especially during stress; hand and forearm strength contribute to a steadier grip with less fatigue.
This, obvioulsy, doesn't apply to everyone. I know some great runners whose wobble area is huge.

P-990 · February 21, 2007, 09:13 PM

Carlo,

I said basically the same thing about stance on another thread and got told I was wrong because I said "Sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow through" are the most important things to remember. That and I used the reference to rifle shooting. Completely forgot that having a good stance is necessary for good, accurate "Bullseye" shooting, because I do so much of it (with a rifle) I take it for granted!

Anyway, I can't see how exercise can hurt, especially in developing stamina for shooting long strings. Physical strength in and of itself isn't really a #1 requirement for good shooting. Proper form is more important, IMO. At .44 Magnum and below, there isn't a pistol around that is going to generate so much recoil as to be a strength issue, again IMO.

I think flexibility is a good thing too, as it should reduce stress on joints all around and make recovery quicker and easier. Not only that, but it should aid in long strings as well.

Baphomet · February 21, 2007, 09:16 PM

Hold a 5 pound dumbbell in your fist and fully extend your arm straight out in front of you, just like you would if firing a pistol ... and hold it there.

A one-gallon milk jug, filled with ten measuring cups of water, will put you at five pounds as well.

I swear by this exercise personally, but of course, ymmv.

AK103K · February 21, 2007, 09:26 PM

Exercise and being fit in general benefits you in every way. Your shooting also benefits from it. If you are in shape, you have less stress, are more relaxed, have better overall muscle tone, and are generally more easily able to move and get into realistic positions that static bench shooting doesnt require. It isnt just your body that benefits from it, your whole mental outlook is generally much better when you exercise and stay in shape. It also keeps you younger and more able to actually do things the things you like longer.

I find for shooting, the best exercise involves the weapons themselves.

PzGren · February 22, 2007, 05:31 AM

I firmly believe that excercise improves the performance at the firing line ( no, not the forum!). I got some Captain of Crush grippers and they increased my hand strength, it seems to help with very quick follow up shots.

When I was still into traditional bullseye, we were advised that excercise, weights and cardiovascular, are very helpful.

Unfortunately we were told to cut coffee out, too.

waynedm · February 22, 2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Hold a 5 pound dumbbell in your fist and fully extend your arm straight out in front of you, just like you would if firing a pistol ... and hold it there.

That sounds like a good idea.

I used to use gripper deals for working out but I broke mine and haven't replaced them, I know that they helped my grip a decent amount though.

John28226 · February 22, 2007, 08:16 AM

Most of us spend a fair amount of time either stuck in traffic or commuting to work and back. A spring "grip exerciser" (they usually come in pairs) left in the car will allow you to strengthen your grip. If you don't feel too self conscious about it, holding your arm straight out will also aid with shoulder muscle development.

Those exercisers are under $10 and will do a lot for your trigger control. Try it for a month and see what happens.

John
Charlotte, NC

shaggycat · February 22, 2007, 09:54 AM

I run cross country/track at a DI college. My resting heart rate is in the low 40s. Most Americans are in the 70s. That makes it easier for me especially for rifle shooting, but also when shooting handguns.

GJJ · February 22, 2007, 09:55 AM

Actually, you can double your hand strength with a gripper in about a week. These muscles respond fast. It will make you a much better shot.

**Bud Helms** · February 22, 2007, 02:49 PM

'Sound like training ... here we go.

Doug.38PR · February 22, 2007, 02:50 PM

"I've got the eye of the tiger da da da da da"

Seriously, I either dryfire or snap cap my gun using the ball of my index finger balancing gun with my thumb stick forward. (DA revolvers). First time I got my revolver, that seemed unthinkable. The tip of my finger can't handle that. So I put my finger in the guard all the way to my second joint. And that works okay, but as I the muscles in my index finger have gotten stronger and more accustomed to pulling DA with the tip of my finger, accuracy and control has gotten A LOT better....even better than using the second joint.

AK103K · February 22, 2007, 02:51 PM

but do you have the foot work to go with it?

Lurper · February 22, 2007, 03:18 PM

Exercising improves your life across the board. Will it make you a better shooter? Not in and of itself. It's not like you can start an excersize regimen for 30 days, not change anything else, and become a better shooter. Grip strength is immaterial (as is the strength of your trigger finger). All of the best shooters who I know (that includes several World Champions), whether bullseye or practical will tell you that relaxation is the key. What grip strengtheners do is build the stamina in your forearms. That helps hold the pistol steadier for longer periods of time which can be a factor in bullseye. However I have seen many bullseye shooters lower the pistol after each shot.
As far as practical or speed shooting goes, staying in shape will make you feel better when you do, but exercising your mind will make you a better shooter to a far greater extent than exersizing your body.

Odd Job · February 22, 2007, 04:01 PM

This thread got me back on my squeeze grips again. I am embarrassed to say that after having squeeze grips for more than 15 years, the thought only occurred to me now, that I might be able to stop the spring squeaking by spraying it with silicon spray

Nice and quiet now.
I would like to get stronger ones. I have owned many, but they are all too easy to squeeze. Any tough grips out there?

SIGSHR · February 22, 2007, 06:09 PM

IIRC the late great Charlie Askins was a firm believer in exercise as an aid to
shooting, in one of his books he mentions working out with dumbbells, also recall him mentioning going for a brisk walk every morning. Also recall him saying the pistol champion Joe Benner owed much of his success to a stocky
build. Read an article by Bill Jordan years ago in which he mentioned that one
year he took up bicycling to help recuperate from knee surgery, said he felt the added fitness on his next huntn and I remember an article by a Border Patrolman who was also a pistol champion in which he recommended a fitness
routine in which you built up upper body strength to the point where you could do 25 pushups "ON YOUR FINGERTIPS". Improving your cardio-vascular fitness and aerobic capacity makes it a lot easier to hold your breath at the
moment of trigger release and to recover between shot.

**JohnKSa** · February 22, 2007, 10:18 PM

Seems to me the less effort that is required to hold the gun up or press the trigger, the better you're going to shoot. Strength training seems to help with that sort of thing.

Blackwater OPS · February 23, 2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Does exercise mean better shooting?

Yes. I heard a motto once, sweat more in peace, bleed less in war. Very true.

pax · February 23, 2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Grip strength is immaterial (as is the strength of your trigger finger).

Beg to differ. I know several people whose trigger finger weakness means they can't run a DA revolver through a 500-round class without extreme difficulty. Trigger finger gets worn out 100 rounds in, and literally freezes up making it impossible to pull the trigger. A few minutes' rest, and they can fire another two or three or ten shots before it freezes again.

So IMO, trigger finger strength is definitely a factor.

As for the overall premise, I once heard Lisa Munsen explain that she never started winning national IPSC titles until she started a regular and very aggressive exercise regimen. Sure, that's "just IPSC," but I would think it would have applicability to most defensive shooting as well, if only because people in better shape have lower heart rates under stress, which in turn might translate to one less factor disrupting your ability to control the firearm under stress.

pax

Lurper · February 23, 2007, 12:22 PM

Pax,
You are correct, I should have said after a certain point it doesn't matter, also I always think in terms of autos. My intent was to point out that the ability to crush stone in your hands is not necessary and in fact is counter productive.

As far as IPSC goes, as a professional shooter (Team Springfield, Safariland, Dillon) for several years, having shot thousands of IPSC/USPSA matches (winning many), I can't see where exercise in and of itself will make you a better shooter. In the early days, I was amazed that some of the fastest runs where turned in by some of the "fat" guys. Perhaps I am just showing my own bias. I also believe that IPSC is very applicable to defensive shooting. But, you don't hold your breath when you break the shot, nor do you point the gun at the target for long stretches of time. I for one have never found my heartbeat or breathing to effect my shots even during 50 yard standards.

STLRN · February 23, 2007, 12:27 PM

Holding your arm out for extended period and the process of following through on shooting is exerciser. It may be have the same cardiovascular as running, but it does exerciser a certain muscular group.

SundownRider · February 23, 2007, 01:21 PM

As an avid shooter and weight lifter, I have found various exercises are useful in helping with the development of muscles used in shooting. The best overall exercise is to take a straight bar with enough weight on it to cause resistance, stand with your feet shoulders width apart, and holding the bar down in front of you. Lift the bar straight out and up, ending the motion over your head. Bring down slowly and repeat. This will give a great base for maintaining a solid stance and hold, as well as strengthening your grip.

106RR · March 3, 2007, 03:23 AM

I went to a demonstration by Jerry Miculek and he is amazing. He said that the ideal exercise was to tie a weight to a broomstick and roll the cord up and then slowly back down. The cord should be as long as the distance from your shooting stance to the floor. You can increase the weight as you gain strength. Start slow and light, this is harder than it sounds. He told the group that this was necessary to build up your forearms thus controlling the recoil.
He is ,by the way a true gentleman, as well as a great shot.
My opinion is that Chi Gong or Tai Chi would be very helpful in addition to the Miculek regimen.

February 21, 2007, 07:03 PM	#3
dairycreek Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: North Plains, Oregon, USA Posts: 1,867	Exercise certainly helps me to be a better shooter. First, I am 70 years old and, of course, exercise helps me do just about everything I can do better. But, when it comes to shooting, I concentrate on a weight lifting program to increase my upper and lower body strength. I stand more firmly and my grip and presentation are also a lot steadier. Exercise sure helps for me. __________________ ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR HEARING AND VISION GOOD SHOOTING

February 21, 2007, 09:04 PM	#4
BreacherUp! Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 566	the benefits of exercise certainly help. lower heart rate as a result of cardio conditioning, thus decreasing wobble area of the sight picture, especially during stress; hand and forearm strength contribute to a steadier grip with less fatigue. This, obvioulsy, doesn't apply to everyone. I know some great runners whose wobble area is huge. __________________ Life's tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid.

February 21, 2007, 09:13 PM	#5
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Carlo, I said basically the same thing about stance on another thread and got told I was wrong because I said "Sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow through" are the most important things to remember. That and I used the reference to rifle shooting. Completely forgot that having a good stance is necessary for good, accurate "Bullseye" shooting, because I do so much of it (with a rifle) I take it for granted! Anyway, I can't see how exercise can hurt, especially in developing stamina for shooting long strings. Physical strength in and of itself isn't really a #1 requirement for good shooting. Proper form is more important, IMO. At .44 Magnum and below, there isn't a pistol around that is going to generate so much recoil as to be a strength issue, again IMO. I think flexibility is a good thing too, as it should reduce stress on joints all around and make recovery quicker and easier. Not only that, but it should aid in long strings as well. __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

February 22, 2007, 08:16 AM	#10
John28226 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 292	While driving Most of us spend a fair amount of time either stuck in traffic or commuting to work and back. A spring "grip exerciser" (they usually come in pairs) left in the car will allow you to strengthen your grip. If you don't feel too self conscious about it, holding your arm straight out will also aid with shoulder muscle development. Those exercisers are under $10 and will do a lot for your trigger control. Try it for a month and see what happens. John Charlotte, NC

February 22, 2007, 10:18 PM	#19
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,969	Seems to me the less effort that is required to hold the gun up or press the trigger, the better you're going to shoot. Strength training seems to help with that sort of thing. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 21, 2007, 06:39 PM	#1
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	Does exercise mean better shooting? We all talk about things we can do to our triggers ect to make our shooting better. We talk about dry firing, grib technique, trigger control and stance and wearing lucky hats while shooting all to get better groups in less time. Something that's never been mentioned is exercise. How many of you do certain exercises to try and better your control of the gun or yourself in whatever type of shooting you do and what exactly do you do?

February 21, 2007, 07:02 PM	#2
Carlo Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 505	One thing that is important, in the kind of shooting I do (traditional one hand bullseye), is feeling the stance. Too much attention is devoted to what happens from the chest to the head, but feet, legs and torso are very important as well. You can spoil a shot by tensing toes or legs muscles, or by turning your hips. The moment the shot is released, all the body relaxes, in the sense that muscular tension meant to correct body alignment falls apart, so the shot goes were your body is really pointing. Breathing control has its importance too, learning to lift the gun and go down of the target the right way means also being able to retain a constant quantity of air, enough to take the shot with fresh eyes, but not enough to tense. Feeling the stance and breathing control can be practiced without the gun in hand, by just doing lifts to the target. The former is also achieved by lifting up and closing the eyes for some time. Another important element is follow through, not lowering the gun as the shot goes off, pretending to have a second shot to take helps not to lower the weapon too soon in slow fire. For rapid fire, I like to mentally count the shots, so that I acquire a sort of time control rhythm, that is: now(1)--now(2)--now(3)--etc... Carlo

February 21, 2007, 09:16 PM	#6
Baphomet Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2006 Posts: 262	Hold a 5 pound dumbbell in your fist and fully extend your arm straight out in front of you, just like you would if firing a pistol ... and hold it there. A one-gallon milk jug, filled with ten measuring cups of water, will put you at five pounds as well. I swear by this exercise personally, but of course, ymmv.

February 21, 2007, 09:26 PM	#7
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Exercise and being fit in general benefits you in every way. Your shooting also benefits from it. If you are in shape, you have less stress, are more relaxed, have better overall muscle tone, and are generally more easily able to move and get into realistic positions that static bench shooting doesnt require. It isnt just your body that benefits from it, your whole mental outlook is generally much better when you exercise and stay in shape. It also keeps you younger and more able to actually do things the things you like longer. I find for shooting, the best exercise involves the weapons themselves.

February 22, 2007, 05:31 AM	#8
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,257	I firmly believe that excercise improves the performance at the firing line ( no, not the forum!). I got some Captain of Crush grippers and they increased my hand strength, it seems to help with very quick follow up shots. When I was still into traditional bullseye, we were advised that excercise, weights and cardiovascular, are very helpful. Unfortunately we were told to cut coffee out, too.

February 22, 2007, 09:54 AM	#11
shaggycat Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Posts: 20	I run cross country/track at a DI college. My resting heart rate is in the low 40s. Most Americans are in the 70s. That makes it easier for me especially for rifle shooting, but also when shooting handguns.

February 22, 2007, 09:55 AM	#12
GJJ Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2006 Posts: 164	Actually, you can double your hand strength with a gripper in about a week. These muscles respond fast. It will make you a much better shot.

February 22, 2007, 02:49 PM	#13
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	'Sound like training ... here we go.

February 22, 2007, 02:50 PM	#14
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	"I've got the eye of the tiger da da da da da" Seriously, I either dryfire or snap cap my gun using the ball of my index finger balancing gun with my thumb stick forward. (DA revolvers). First time I got my revolver, that seemed unthinkable. The tip of my finger can't handle that. So I put my finger in the guard all the way to my second joint. And that works okay, but as I the muscles in my index finger have gotten stronger and more accustomed to pulling DA with the tip of my finger, accuracy and control has gotten A LOT better....even better than using the second joint.

February 22, 2007, 02:51 PM	#15
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	but do you have the foot work to go with it?

February 22, 2007, 03:18 PM	#16
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	Exercising improves your life across the board. Will it make you a better shooter? Not in and of itself. It's not like you can start an excersize regimen for 30 days, not change anything else, and become a better shooter. Grip strength is immaterial (as is the strength of your trigger finger). All of the best shooters who I know (that includes several World Champions), whether bullseye or practical will tell you that relaxation is the key. What grip strengtheners do is build the stamina in your forearms. That helps hold the pistol steadier for longer periods of time which can be a factor in bullseye. However I have seen many bullseye shooters lower the pistol after each shot. As far as practical or speed shooting goes, staying in shape will make you feel better when you do, but exercising your mind will make you a better shooter to a far greater extent than exersizing your body.

February 22, 2007, 04:01 PM	#17
Odd Job Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: London (ex SA) Posts: 476	This thread got me back on my squeeze grips again. I am embarrassed to say that after having squeeze grips for more than 15 years, the thought only occurred to me now, that I might be able to stop the spring squeaking by spraying it with silicon spray Nice and quiet now. I would like to get stronger ones. I have owned many, but they are all too easy to squeeze. Any tough grips out there?

February 22, 2007, 06:09 PM	#18
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	IIRC the late great Charlie Askins was a firm believer in exercise as an aid to shooting, in one of his books he mentions working out with dumbbells, also recall him mentioning going for a brisk walk every morning. Also recall him saying the pistol champion Joe Benner owed much of his success to a stocky build. Read an article by Bill Jordan years ago in which he mentioned that one year he took up bicycling to help recuperate from knee surgery, said he felt the added fitness on his next huntn and I remember an article by a Border Patrolman who was also a pistol champion in which he recommended a fitness routine in which you built up upper body strength to the point where you could do 25 pushups "ON YOUR FINGERTIPS". Improving your cardio-vascular fitness and aerobic capacity makes it a lot easier to hold your breath at the moment of trigger release and to recover between shot.

February 23, 2007, 12:22 PM	#22
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	Pax, You are correct, I should have said after a certain point it doesn't matter, also I always think in terms of autos. My intent was to point out that the ability to crush stone in your hands is not necessary and in fact is counter productive. As far as IPSC goes, as a professional shooter (Team Springfield, Safariland, Dillon) for several years, having shot thousands of IPSC/USPSA matches (winning many), I can't see where exercise in and of itself will make you a better shooter. In the early days, I was amazed that some of the fastest runs where turned in by some of the "fat" guys. Perhaps I am just showing my own bias. I also believe that IPSC is very applicable to defensive shooting. But, you don't hold your breath when you break the shot, nor do you point the gun at the target for long stretches of time. I for one have never found my heartbeat or breathing to effect my shots even during 50 yard standards.

February 23, 2007, 12:27 PM	#23
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	Holding your arm out for extended period and the process of following through on shooting is exerciser. It may be have the same cardiovascular as running, but it does exerciser a certain muscular group. __________________ God truly fights on the side with the best artillery

February 23, 2007, 01:21 PM	#24
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	As an avid shooter and weight lifter, I have found various exercises are useful in helping with the development of muscles used in shooting. The best overall exercise is to take a straight bar with enough weight on it to cause resistance, stand with your feet shoulders width apart, and holding the bar down in front of you. Lift the bar straight out and up, ending the motion over your head. Bring down slowly and repeat. This will give a great base for maintaining a solid stance and hold, as well as strengthening your grip. __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

March 3, 2007, 03:23 AM	#25
106RR Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2002 Posts: 234	I went to a demonstration by Jerry Miculek and he is amazing. He said that the ideal exercise was to tie a weight to a broomstick and roll the cord up and then slowly back down. The cord should be as long as the distance from your shooting stance to the floor. You can increase the weight as you gain strength. Start slow and light, this is harder than it sounds. He told the group that this was necessary to build up your forearms thus controlling the recoil. He is ,by the way a true gentleman, as well as a great shot. My opinion is that Chi Gong or Tai Chi would be very helpful in addition to the Miculek regimen. Last edited by 106RR; March 3, 2007 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Added note about Chi Gong

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