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November 20, 2012, 12:29 AM | #51 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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November 20, 2012, 12:51 AM | #52 | |||
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If the specs were published ahead of time, and I'm certain that they were, one reason Glock wouldn't have applied is because their pistols won't meet the firing pin energy spec.
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But the bottom line is that if they were going to base their selection primarily on price, they wouldn't have eliminated all but two of the contenders with the performance competition before even proceeding to the price competition. Quote:
Only two pistols completed the performance portion of the competition, and one of those (SIG) was actually allowed to pass although it failed one portion of the competition. It was allowed to pass because the U.S. wanted at least two bidders involved to keep the final price down via competition. http://archive.gao.gov/d4t4/130439.pdf
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November 20, 2012, 08:57 AM | #53 | |
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November 20, 2012, 11:18 AM | #54 |
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Glocks; US Armed Forces....
I did not read all the forum posts yet but to my limited knowledge, a few Glock models are issued or authorized by US military units.
In 01/2012, I saw a few uniformed(ACUs) New York National Guard MPs wearing Glock 17 9mmNATO sidearms in SAS or drop leg holsters. The MPs were by New York City's Grand Central Terminal. I also saw a TV program with a few LA National Guard MPs who used Glock pistols(17/19) while working the "road" in New Orleans. The elite ACE(also called SFOD-D or "Delta") allows troops to pack the Glock 21 .45acp or a 1911a1 pistol. Some web weenies say Delta/ACE now uses the Glock 22 .40 but I think they mean the larger Glock 21 .45acp. I'd read that a few USAF security forces(SF) carry the Glock 22/23 .40S&W on duty but that's unconfirmed by any USAF records or press releases. Glocks are robust & well made but the standard M9/M9a1 & SIG's top rated M11 compact 9mmNATO will fill military holsters for many years. CF |
November 20, 2012, 11:20 AM | #55 |
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Most of the "Operators" seem to be using the 229 which is always a good reason to ignore glock
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November 20, 2012, 11:27 AM | #56 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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November 20, 2012, 11:37 AM | #57 |
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trolley car operators?
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November 20, 2012, 11:45 AM | #58 |
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The tier one SF guys (Delta, SEALs, FORECON) get pretty much anything they ask for.
They have budgets that are the envy of all the other SF units... |
November 20, 2012, 11:51 AM | #59 |
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holy huge thread!
i have your answer - glocks suck!
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Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock." |
November 20, 2012, 12:00 PM | #60 | |
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SIG's make me drool. Which agency uses the P229 in .357SIG again? Secret service right? |
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November 20, 2012, 12:12 PM | #61 | |
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November 20, 2012, 12:21 PM | #62 |
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^ Yes Secret Service Uses Sig .357 - and by "Operator" I was referring to Seals but I suppose technically it would be Delta Force.
Country Organization Name Model Bangladesh Bangladesh Navy[18] P226, P228, P229 Special Security Force (SSF) of the Bangladesh Army[18] P226, P228, P229 Canada Canadian Special Forces[3] P226, P229 Royal Canadian Navy[citation needed] P225 Canadian Forces Military Police[19] P225 Ontario Provincial Police[20] P229 Royal Newfoundland Constabulary[21] P226 Vancouver Police Department[22] P226 Finland Finnish Army[3] P226 Georgia Used by police and special forces[citation needed] P226 Germany Spezialeinsatzkommandos (SEKs) of the police, and the Federal Criminal Police Office[23] P226, P229 Greece EKAM counter-terrorist unit of the Hellenic Police[24][25] P229 India Indian Army[3] P226 Indonesia Komando Pasukan Katak (Kopaska) tactical diver group of the Indonesian Navy[26] P226, P228 Komando Pasukan Khusus (Kopassus) special forces group of the Indonesian Army[26] P226, P228 Iran Manufactured unlicensed by Defense Industries Organization as the ZOAF[27] P226 Ireland Army Ranger Wing[28] P226 Detectives of An Garda Síochána and the Emergency Response Unit (Garda)[29] P226 Republic of Korea Republic of Korea Naval Special Warfare Flotilla[30] P226N Luxembourg Unité Spéciale de la Police of the Grand Ducal Police[31][32][33] P226, P228 Malaysia Malaysian Special Operations Force[34] P226, P228 Netherlands Unit Interventie Mariniers (UIM) of the Netherlands Marine Corps[35] P226 New Zealand New Zealand Defence Force[36] P226, P226R designated P226AL Pakistan Special Service Group of the Pakistan Army[citation needed] P226 Poland GROM special group[37] P228 Portugal Portuguese Armed Forces[38] P228 Singapore Singapore Armed Forces[39] P226 Spain Grupo Especial de Operaciones (GEO) of the Cuerpo Nacional de Policía[40] P226 Sweden Swedish Police Service[41] P226, P228, P229 Turkey[3] ___ P229 United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates Army[3] P228 Various special forces[3] P228 United Kingdom British Army (standard P226 designated L105A1[3] and improved version with corrosion resistant finish designated L106A1[citation needed], P229 designated L117A2[3]) P226, P229 Special Air Service[3] P226, P228 designated L117A1 Ministry of Defence Police[citation needed] P229 United States U.S. Army[42] P228 (as the M11) U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command[43] P229 U.S. Coast Guard[43] P229R DAK .40 S&W U.S. Department of Homeland Security[43] P229 DAK (.40 S&W) U.S. Diplomatic Security Service (U.S. Department of State)[44] P228, P229, P229R (9×19mm) U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration[42] P228 U.S. Federal Air Marshals[45] P229 (.357 SIG) U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation[42] P226 U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations[44] P228 (9×19mm) Naval Criminal Investigative Service[46] P229, P239 (.40 S&W) U.S. Navy SEALs[47] P226, P228 (9×19mm) U.S. Navy[48] P228(M11) (9×19mm) U.S. Secret Service[49] P229 (.357 SIG) U.S. Postal Inspection Service[50] P229 DAK (.40 S&W) Texas Ranger Division[51] P226 (.357 SIG) New York Police Department[52] P226 DAK (9×19mm) Orlando Police Department[53] P226R (9×19mm) Anne Arundel County Police Department[54] P229R DA/SA (.40 S&W) Memphis Police Department[55] P229 DAK Shelby County Sheriff's Office[56] P226, P229 DAK (.40 S&W) Connecticut State Police[57] P229 (.40 S&W) University of California Police Department (UCLA)[citation needed] P226R (.40 S&W) New Jersey State Police[58] P228 (9×19mm) Houston Police Department[59] P229, P226 .40 S&W Sacramento Police Department[60] P226R, P229, P239 [edit]See als Last edited by jmortimer; November 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM. |
November 20, 2012, 12:23 PM | #63 | |
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November 20, 2012, 12:28 PM | #64 |
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FAMs, USSS, OIG/SSA....
As AK posted; "tier-one" spec ops like ACE, DEVGRU, ISA, AWG(Asymetrical Warfare Group; don't even ask, ) etc have different budgets & procurement systems. There $ comes from a budget source different than the regular or conventional armed forces.
As for the SIG P229/P229R .357sig, it is now in use by a few large federal agencies; US Secret Service, FAMs/Federal Air Marshals Service, even the OIG(office of the Inspector General) for the SSA(Social Security Administration). The LE/military sales rep for SIG-Sauer could supply a full list of US federal agencies that use the P229 model in .357sig caliber. Clyde |
November 20, 2012, 12:49 PM | #65 | |
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One of the SWAT team managed to sling brass down the back of my wife pants. She sure did a dance. She stayed safe though, she kept her weapon pointed downrange the whole time. Burned both cheeks too. He aplogized after he saw me digging it out of the back of her drawers. My wife didn't think it was that funny but the SWAT team and I did.
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November 20, 2012, 02:22 PM | #66 |
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My cousin who is a county cop in South Bend IN is issued a 229 in 40 and another friend we have who is in a small precinct in NJ has the 228
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November 20, 2012, 10:48 PM | #67 | |
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Uhh.. nevermind, the visual of you digging for it is enough for today. |
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November 20, 2012, 11:25 PM | #68 |
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Because the US military does not like unsafe guns.
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November 20, 2012, 11:41 PM | #69 | |
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"Time you had that holster tightened up Dan."- Glock-aide man
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November 21, 2012, 04:59 AM | #70 |
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I think the 80's military mindset wasn't ready for a plastic gun even without the striker/external safety aspects.
Maybe if it had been a favorite son (Colt, S&W, Ruger) things could have turned out different. Has any handgun ever actually decided a war? I doubt it. Usually it gets decided by rifles, machine guns, artillery, logistics, air power, naval power, quality of generals, etc. |
November 21, 2012, 06:22 AM | #71 | |
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1st: the most "personal" kind of firearm a soldier may carry and 2nd: the one his live may depend on when things go wrong and 3rd: moreover, also the kind of weapon most interesting for most civilian shooters Thus, the "military handgun" issue will always weight in more than its actual value on a strategic level may imply. And its still interesting discussing it, btw.
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November 21, 2012, 08:27 AM | #72 | |
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This is her doing some one handed drills. It was at a training class. (Tactical Response Fighting Pistol) Paul (the huge bald dude you see on TV sometimes on Police Women of Memphis) was shooting on her left side. One of his casings hit her in the back and went down the back of her pants. I told her not to tuck in her shirt.
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November 21, 2012, 08:55 AM | #73 | |
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TunnelRat, Good post...and I'm no Beretta fan either. Rod
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Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. |
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November 21, 2012, 10:03 AM | #74 |
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Because after more than 100 years of the quality desgned by John Moses Browning, the US military decided to try and be a little more sporting by letting Beretta provide an acceptable but not supreme side-arm in the lesser caliber. But even good sportsmanship doesn't extend to paying government prices on a Glock.
Can you imagine how much your $400 glock would be? With $600 toilet seats, $400 hammers, $37 screws.... |
November 21, 2012, 10:04 AM | #75 | ||
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FWIW if you read Cold War-era gun press articles about the CZ, particularly those written before the pistol was first imported in the mid-80s, it can be difficult to separate fact from fiction. Some gun writers used spectacular hyperbole to describe this mysterious and forbidden Warsaw Pact wünderpistole, but when you read these articles closely, it's often apparent that the writer hadn't even handled the CZ, much less fired one; they were just parroting similar hyperbole from other writers. IMHO it's possible that the CZ's "participation" in the Army tests is a myth that originated in one of these articles.
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