Just had a knife pulled on me.

[VeT|Us]

Sorry for a long post, but it helps to vent.

So as I'm writing this it's 2 hours since a punkass kid decided it was better to pull a knife on me and my boss rather than come with us and face charges for theft. Too bad for him, as it's now not only theft, but theft, threats to kill, and some other stuff.

From the beginning:
I work in a "everything"-store, as you might call it, akin to a Wal-Mart or K-mart, whatever. We experience alot of shoplifting and theft, and some times, the perp gets angry and violent when we confront them when they try to leave. I've thought about the fact that one day, some punk was gonna steal a knife, get mad when we catch him, and use it against us.

Thats pretty much exactly what happened today. Boss comes over and says "look at those guys" and we see some teenagers kneeling next to the knife-isle. Then they took some mp3-players, watches, headsets etc.
Boss and I went to intercept them, catching them as they left, but they chose another exit (split up), and we had to follow the main perp up an escalator.

We cought up with him at the top, and told him we knew that he had stolen, and that we were filing charges and calling the cops. He claimed the stuff was given to him by a friend. We told him he was going to have to say that to the police. At which point he said "the police hates me, I ain't talking to no police!", turned and left, in a hurried pace. We cought up with him after 10 feet, and told him to come with us. Then he pulled out the knife, and screamed "GET AWAY FROM ME! IM GONNA %#&%ing kill you!!" and advanced on us. My boss and I both told him to calm down and stepped back about 2-3 feet, at which point the punk saw his chanse to run of. Boss, crazy as he is, runs after him, while throwing me the keys to the shop and telling me to call the cops.

I'm still pretty shook up about it. Didn't like one bit staring at some guy with a knife coming towards me. I've trained Karate and Kali Eskrima for years, and I'm pretty strong, but I still didn't like it one bit.
Cops arrived after 15-20 (long) minutes and caught him. Turns out the idiot didn't even think of running -away-, he stayed at the mall, and was caught.

The police told me to come down to the station since I was a witness. Me and my boss came down, waited for 15 minutes, and then I was told that they were so understaffed that they couldn't take my statement other than what I had said at the scene. They'll call later when someone comes to work. Yeah, really.

Btw, I do not reside in the US, so no criticism towards your LEO's.


From now on I'll carry mace. Cant carry a gun. But when I had that punk advance on me with a knife, saying he was gonna kill me, I sure wished I had one.

[Samurai]

You'd have just killed the stupid kid, and then felt like crap about it.

You did fine. You handled the situation, you remained clam, and noone got hurt. Calm down, take a few deep breaths, and when you regain your thoughts, give yourself a pat on the back. You did fine.

[Ronny]

+1 on mace. Even if you do carry a gun, mace is still very useful as a non-lethal way to stop an attack. The one I have is big enough to be used as an impact weapon, but small enough to carry in a pocket.

Martial arts isn't as good in real life as it is in the movies. It's good to know and healthy to practice, but don't rely on it unless it's all you've got.

[VeT|Us]

thanks Samurai. I'll feel alot better when the mace arrives in the mail.

[spacemanspiff]

Can you carry an ASP? would make a good counterpart to the spray.

BTW, the spray that comes out as a fog is better than the stream, covers a wider area. Expect to get some of the spray in your face as well.

[VeT|Us]

nope, no ASP. Pretty much no nothin', except for the spray.

[stephen426]

First of all, I'm glad that you were not injured and that the punk kid was arrested.

Are you employed as a security guard? Most stores out source security duties to limit their liability, both from employees and customers. If you had gotten hurt or killed, you or your family could have gotten a huge settlement. If you had beat the crap out of the kid (who proably badly needed it), his parents could sue you and cost you lots of money in legal fees, even though you might eventaully win. This is how the U.S. court systems work. I don't know where you live, but do be careful.

[jhenry]

Even if you didn't live in a country that dosen't trust it's own citizens (or subjects) with approprite means to defend their persons and family the likelyhood of being permitted to be armed at work is low. Aside from the LEO response the outcome would have been the same here. You did just fine. That being said, I do think your idea of mace is a good one. Make sure you get OC Pepper spray if you can and not the older mace product. I prefer the stream not the fog. You have better reach and less collateral contamination. Also a good idea to get one with dye in it, it marks the perp.

Can folks own Tasers where you live?

[VeT|Us]

Nope, no tasers.

Criminals can and does carry:
Handguns, sawn-off shotguns, knives, automatic weapons, bats, axes, swords, machetes...

Law-abiding citizens may carry:
Mace.

[jhenry]

Nothing personal at all and please don't take it that way. I would emigrate. Come on over legally and let's go to the range and burn some powder

[ddskehan]

you did fine. let your dumb a** boss chase the kid. I'm sure looking back that you wouldn't want to die or kill someone over a MP player. you did right by letting the local bobbies take care of it. I'm assuming you live in england. you should save your money and move here.

[chrisandclauida2]

my career was law enforcement but i always had a second catching shoplifters. i have been sprayed with mace shot at, threatened with a gun more than once, had people try to run me over and had many fighters.

i gotta say you use the wrong tactics. you have to be aggressive when apprehending people. you get up on them get control and take them down if they look funny or dont respond to commands instantly.

if your going to walk with them and beg them to stop you might as well let them go. its all or nothing. you need to be willing and able to restrain people. you need hand cuffs at the very least.

when i stop someone i get close. i do this for two reasons. one is of course being able to take them down if they get brave and second is they cant really swing and hit you. the way they idiot kids now days think its cool to raise their arms and start talking crap when you try to stop them are just playing into the take down. one they take their hands away from concealment areas and two they are almost always moving thus being off balance.

when you take someone down it isn't like fighting. sure you may take a hit or two but they wont be ably to get full power behind them and they are really trying to get away. this again puts them off balance and allows you to quickly gain control .dont be afraid to scream threaten the rip their arms off kick the what ever 4 letter word you want out of them. be aggressive and get it done.

if your not willing to do this dont even try to stop them. your store should provide training in the legalities of doing this. you just cant stop them if you see stuff in their pockets unless you saw them take it from the shelf. you also cant loose sight of them or you take the chance of them dumping the stuff. if you miss any step of observing them take leave not pay and dont lose sight the case can be won by any lawyer.

you also need to know who to stop. if i was by my self i would never stop large groups. my life or getting my ass whipped by five guys isn't worth any amount of merchandise. i would make sure they know i am watching so they dump it. if they know your watching them and dont dump then they want to fight and you better think about letting go. never chase any one too far from the exit. they can have friends waiting for you or worse you chase them in front of a car and they get hit your screwed.

this all goes back to being aggressive when stopping and pick and choose who you stop. if someone got a step or two on me and if i didn't catch them within a couple steps i let them go. again if they are out of arms length they can get a weapon out. i have kicked many sets of testicles of guys who threatened or acted like they were getting a weapon. it is a fight end-er in the first magnitude.

if someone did get a weapon out you just tell them to have a nice day and immediately create space. space is life time is life and nothing in that store is worth your life.

bottom line is get trained. do it right or dont do it at all. and remember you take on personal liability and responsibility for those who you stop and apprehend. if they get hurt after they are restrained your responsible for them.

your alive so you did well.

[Glenn Bartley]

If it is available legally for use where you work and reside, I strongly suggest a very strong pepper spray over any form of mace.

[CobrayCommando]

Same thing in Los Angeles, nothing but the spray and concealed folders. Otherwise I would carry a sap.

[revjen45]

Some time back a store owner in Everett WA pulled a gun on a punk who stole an armful of CDs from his store. To compound the stupidity he capped off a few rounds outside at the fleeing thief, then couldn't understand why he was arrested and treated like a moron by the cops. It was lucky that no innocent parties, or the thief (who didn't pull a weapon and took off) were hit. I thought he should have been caned in public for risking the lives of everybody on the street over $50-60 worth of CDs.

Pepper spray is the way to go when your life isn't threatened. I'm afraid that if someone pulls a knife on me, it's no longer about the goods, but my life. I'm old and fat and I shoot a lot better than I run. The stolen goods of a shoplifting aren't worth shooting over but somebody crazy enough to pull a knife is crazy enough to attack you with it.