CNN.com report; Iowa approves gun permits for blind residents....

ClydeFrog · September 9, 2013, 03:53 PM

The state officials in IA just approved new gun/carry permits for residents who are blind/vision impaired.

CNN, www.cnn.com ran the news item today. The state wanted to comply with the federal ADA(Americans With Disabilities Act) & avoid any discrimination complaints.
Im not quite sure how a blind person would carry a loaded handgun or use it in a lethal force event but it sounds like a sticky legal issue.

Clyde F

allaroundhunter · September 9, 2013, 03:59 PM

Well, at least they are complying with laws already on the books rather than making new ones. Isn't that what we want?

csmsss · September 9, 2013, 04:04 PM

Being legally blind does necessarily mean one has no vision at all - it just means that one's visual impairment is significant enough that it means significant changes in your behavior (ie you should not drive a car, operate machinery, etc.). Many folks who are legally blind can still see shapes, movement, etc.

zxcvbob · September 9, 2013, 04:06 PM

I don't see (no pun intended) a problem.

**Spats McGee** · September 9, 2013, 04:09 PM

Let's not confuse "blind" with "unable to see anything at all." I have a friend who is, legally, blind. He's also an architect, a profession in which vision would seem to be fairly important. I know that he drives a car regularly. As long as he wears his corrective lenses, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to go shoot with him, and likely have done so. (I've known him long enough that I really can't recall if we've ever shot together, but it would not surprise me if we had.)

ETA: I see that csmss beat me to it.

JimDandy · September 9, 2013, 04:13 PM

And additionally, in a Shall Issue state like Iowa, they didn't make it legal. They didn't make it ILLEGAL. Eyesight is not something that makes you a prohibited person. While we may not see the use of such a thing most of the time, there's no legal reason built in to deny it. If a completely sightless person wanted to do so, even without ever expecting to load a firearm, they can do so.

We should also remember, possession of the permit does not confer immunity for reckless use of the firearm. It's not like a sightless person could use a firearm negligently and get off the hook for a permit.

hogdogs · September 9, 2013, 04:25 PM

We had a member some years ago who was trying to get his CCW and he needed a spotter at the pistol range....

As he said it, he wants the same rights to self defense as anyone else even if his range is shorter....

I wonder what ever happened to him?

Brent

MLeake · September 9, 2013, 05:43 PM

Well, since for many carriers, the level of marksmanship is "stick it in his gut and shoot," this isn't earth-shaking even if the person is truly blind.

Considering how many people have learned to do the following, blindfolded:

Disassemble and reassemble an M16 or M4, M1911A1 or M9 (a lot of our vets can still do this);

Rig a basic underwater demolition device (neighbor when I was a kid had undergone some EOD training, and described this as part of their curriculum);

Egress from an underwater, inverted helicopter simulator (did that one a few times, myself, courtesy of Navy DWEST and recurrent aviation survival training);

Fight off multiple attackers (my old sensei used to love lights out or blindfolded randori, so I have done this one, too);

Given all that, I would think a blind person could be trained for basic firearms maintenance and safety.

So, what compelling reason should Iowa have for denial?

**Tom Servo** · September 9, 2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

We had a member some years ago who was trying to get his CCW and he needed a spotter at the pistol range.

I know a guy like that. His muscular memory is impeccable, and he puts some sighted shooters to shame.

Here's an interesting rebuttal from a sheriff who's teaching his visually-impaired daughter to shoot, and one from the point of view of a blind gun buyer.

I'd like to see the specific policies Polk county has regarding the matter. That said, this is more a general issue than one which should be confined to L&CR, so I'm moving it to GD.

hogdogs · September 9, 2013, 07:38 PM

Our member was Blind_Shooter...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/member.php?u=60231

He discussed his progress in some of his postings I think...
But he and I did alot of PM'ing and may have got some info there too...

Brent

TDL · September 10, 2013, 09:49 PM

In my former jurisdiction they attempted to deny a gun possession permit to anyone who could not be corrected to 20/40.

Not to mention the Vice President says to just shoot the shotgun in the air. People who are completely blind can sense up and down anyway

September 9, 2013, 03:53 PM	#1
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	CNN.com report; Iowa approves gun permits for blind residents.... The state officials in IA just approved new gun/carry permits for residents who are blind/vision impaired. CNN, www.cnn.com ran the news item today. The state wanted to comply with the federal ADA(Americans With Disabilities Act) & avoid any discrimination complaints. Im not quite sure how a blind person would carry a loaded handgun or use it in a lethal force event but it sounds like a sticky legal issue. Clyde F

September 9, 2013, 03:59 PM	#2
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	CNN.com report; Iowa approves gun permits for blind residents.... Well, at least they are complying with laws already on the books rather than making new ones. Isn't that what we want?

September 9, 2013, 04:06 PM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I don't see (no pun intended) a problem. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

September 9, 2013, 04:09 PM	#5
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Let's not confuse "blind" with "unable to see anything at all." I have a friend who is, legally, blind. He's also an architect, a profession in which vision would seem to be fairly important. I know that he drives a car regularly. As long as he wears his corrective lenses, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to go shoot with him, and likely have done so. (I've known him long enough that I really can't recall if we've ever shot together, but it would not surprise me if we had.) ETA: I see that csmss beat me to it. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

September 9, 2013, 04:04 PM	#3
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Being legally blind does necessarily mean one has no vision at all - it just means that one's visual impairment is significant enough that it means significant changes in your behavior (ie you should not drive a car, operate machinery, etc.). Many folks who are legally blind can still see shapes, movement, etc.

September 9, 2013, 04:13 PM	#6
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	And additionally, in a Shall Issue state like Iowa, they didn't make it legal. They didn't make it ILLEGAL. Eyesight is not something that makes you a prohibited person. While we may not see the use of such a thing most of the time, there's no legal reason built in to deny it. If a completely sightless person wanted to do so, even without ever expecting to load a firearm, they can do so. We should also remember, possession of the permit does not confer immunity for reckless use of the firearm. It's not like a sightless person could use a firearm negligently and get off the hook for a permit.

September 9, 2013, 04:25 PM	#7
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	We had a member some years ago who was trying to get his CCW and he needed a spotter at the pistol range.... As he said it, he wants the same rights to self defense as anyone else even if his range is shorter.... I wonder what ever happened to him? Brent

September 9, 2013, 05:43 PM	#8
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Well, since for many carriers, the level of marksmanship is "stick it in his gut and shoot," this isn't earth-shaking even if the person is truly blind. Considering how many people have learned to do the following, blindfolded: Disassemble and reassemble an M16 or M4, M1911A1 or M9 (a lot of our vets can still do this); Rig a basic underwater demolition device (neighbor when I was a kid had undergone some EOD training, and described this as part of their curriculum); Egress from an underwater, inverted helicopter simulator (did that one a few times, myself, courtesy of Navy DWEST and recurrent aviation survival training); Fight off multiple attackers (my old sensei used to love lights out or blindfolded randori, so I have done this one, too); Given all that, I would think a blind person could be trained for basic firearms maintenance and safety. So, what compelling reason should Iowa have for denial?

September 9, 2013, 07:38 PM	#10
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Our member was Blind_Shooter... http://thefiringline.com/forums/member.php?u=60231 He discussed his progress in some of his postings I think... But he and I did alot of PM'ing and may have got some info there too... Brent

September 10, 2013, 09:49 PM	#11
TDL Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2013 Posts: 317	In my former jurisdiction they attempted to deny a gun possession permit to anyone who could not be corrected to 20/40. Not to mention the Vice President says to just shoot the shotgun in the air. People who are completely blind can sense up and down anyway