What type of ammo do you use for carry/home defense?

Marquezj16 · September 11, 2012, 11:29 AM

In another thread, someone mentioned having to explain to a juror the type of ammo used.

"I wouldn't wanna have to explain to a jury in a court of law why I used it."

My question is what do you use for SD/HD ammo? Does the thought of having to explain your ammo choice to a juror affect your decision?

allaroundhunter · September 11, 2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Does the thought of having to explain your ammo choice to a juror affect your decision?

No, it doesn't.

Currently I use Hornady Critical defense in my M&P9. I do not worry about having to explain why I chose 'X' JHP instead of 'Y' JHP just because it isn't what the local police carries. Is it good advice to use what your local police force uses? Sure, but carrying Remington Golden Saber instead of Speer Gold Dots does not make me a blood-thirsty killer.

Tactical Jackalope · September 11, 2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

My question is what do you use for SD/HD ammo?

Speer Gold Dot +p's in any caliber

Quote:

Does the thought of having to explain your ammo choice to a juror affect your decision?

No, no, no...Heck no..

Marquezj16 · September 11, 2012, 11:47 AM

I use Hornady CD, TAP, Fed HST or Win PDX. It all depends on what shoots best with the pistol used. I don't for a moment think I will get tried based on the ammo I use or do I let it stop me from choosing the type of ammo.

aarondhgraham · September 11, 2012, 11:48 AM

I use ball ammo,,,
But we won't go into why.

In one of the training sessions I have attended,,,
They brought this same subject up for a discussion topic.

One of the instructors (a lawyer) said this is a common tactic in a civil suit,,,
The plaintiff's attorney will often try to paint you as a villain,,,
Based solely on your choice of ammunition.

If you use hollow-point he paints you as a rabid killer,,,
If you use ball ammo he paints you as a para-military whack-job.

One man suggested we call our local police and ask what they use,,,
And if possible to use the same brand and design.

Personally I don't think you can prepare ahead against this strategy,,,
You will be damned whether you use HP or FMJ ammunition.

It's up to your attorney to defend against this tactic.

The best advice I can relate on this is what I received from the class,,,
Only use commercially available self-defense ammunition,,,
Don't use your own (or anyone else's) handloads.

Aarond

.

Stressfire · September 11, 2012, 11:48 AM

9mm HD/SD - Corbon DPX 115gr
.45 HD & Carry - Winchester PDX 230gr
.380 Carry - Hornady Critical Defense 90gr

All factory, all the time for any defensive purpose

Loronzo · September 11, 2012, 11:58 AM

I carry these in my .40 ( http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...d=3472900.7552) with 2 backup mags of Hornady "Zmax". My carry pistols are loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. Undoubtedly if in a SD situation I would be most concerned with removing the imediate threat. Also there is a concern of overpenetration that by using HP's or the like would be a better option than FMJ ball load.

As long as you aren't violating state or federal laws I would think you should carry what you are comfortable with/ shoot accurately. Confidence in your ammo could mean the difference in life or death in a shooting. Worrying about what would happen if in trial would (in most cases) mean that the shooting appeared unjustified from the get go. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the people on these forums carry for protection only. We train regularly, keep our firearms in good repair and try to avoid confrontation as much as possible on the premise that if we are faced with a life or death situation that we will live, even though we hope beyond hope we never have to draw and fire our weapons.

Now on the other hand you might have a hard time explaining to the responding officer why your AP. 223 round went through your house and the neighbor's and hit his dog in the back yard... then you may be explaining that one to a jury. I would recomend just carrying what you are comfortable/familiar with, take into account your surroundings and load accordingly, there is no "perfect cartridge" same as no "perfect gun" for every situation but some are better than others. (Again just make sure to follow all applicable state and federal laws regarding the procurement and usage of ammo).

**Spats McGee** · September 11, 2012, 12:02 PM

There are a variety of different bullet designs within what I think of as the "acceptable window of performance." Of those, I try to stick with those that perform best in my carry pistol.

As for juries . . Handloads are a huge no-no, but that's an evidentiary matter that's been hashed out elsewhere. There are cases in which the choice of bullet design has been something of an issue. Harold Fish was one such case, IIRC. Accordingly, I recognize that bullet choice can be an issue with jurors. So do I let the prospect of explaining my choice to a jury affect my decision? Not greatly, but it wouldn't be honest for me to claim that it "absolutely, in no way" colors my decision. If I can get the same performance out of a bullet called the "XDR-28" as I can another called the "MurderousManMauler 5000," guess which one I'm going with.

RedBowTies88 · September 11, 2012, 12:07 PM

M855 for home defense.

Buffalo Bore 115gr flat nose 9x18 for CCW

Marquezj16 · September 11, 2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Buffalo Bore 115gr flat nose 9x18 for CCW

Things that can get you in trouble in NJ

buckhorn_cortez · September 11, 2012, 12:15 PM

I use Winchest PDX1 - it's one of the rounds chosen by the FBI. If the government uses it to shoot...whomever....then I shouldn't be restricted in my choice to use it either since its "governement approved."

RedBowTies88 · September 11, 2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Things that can get you in trouble in NJ

More like things that will land you in jail for 10+ years..unless of course you come from a broken "ethnic" background... then you get a slap on the wrist.

Luckily for me, I have a Utah non-resident CHL that i can use when I travel to america.

Stressfire · September 11, 2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

I use Winchest PDX1 - it's one of the rounds chosen by the FBI. If the government uses it to shoot...whomever....then I shouldn't be restricted in my choice to use it either since its "governement approved."

There's that. I like it because my sub compact .45, doesn't really care for "traditional" HPs. The edge tends to stick on the ramp - not an issue with the PDX1s due to the rounded tip.

SRH78 · September 11, 2012, 12:45 PM

CCW- 357 Sig, 125 grain Winchester PDX1

nightstand gun - 357 Magnum, 125 grain Buffalo Bore

I also keep my Super Redhawk loaded with 45 Colt lead hollow points.

Quote:

Does the thought of having to explain your ammo choice to a juror affect your decision?

If it didn't, I would have some NASTY handloads in my Super Redhawk that do enough damage to make most rifle rounds jealous.

jmortimer · September 11, 2012, 12:57 PM

There only person on record for getting in "trouble" in a criminal prosecution for using a particular type of ammunition, was someone using a 10mm as it was more "powerful" than what the police used in Phoenix. So as of now, I would be concerned about using a 10mm if I cared about that issue. My attitude is make sure you are justified in using deadly force. Use a .500 S&W but make sure you are justified in using deadly force and don't sweat the ammunition as long as it will do the job.

Woody55 · September 11, 2012, 01:06 PM

I pretty much do what @aarondhgraham mentioned.

I don't use hand loads. I think that's the easiest way to be characterized as some sort of crazy gun freak who wants to kill someone. Besides, I hand load for target shooting.

I found out what the local police are authorized to use, and - at least as to type - if not the exact brand, that's what I use. I figure it isn't likely to antagonize the DA and would give my attorney (God forbid) the most ammunition (pun intended) to refute the opposition's arguments.

As far as effectiveness goes, well I don't want to kill anyone anyway. And I've always figured that as you threaten, shoot and hit someone you probably take care of 90% of your problems at each level.

RedBowTies88 · September 11, 2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

There only person on record for getting in "trouble" in a criminal prosecution for using a particular type of ammunition, was someone using a 10mm

That may be the only case where someone got jammed up becuase the cartridge he was using was too powerful..However as far as getting in trouble for a "type" of ammo several people in NJ have been arrested/charged/served time for being in posession of hollow point or expanding ammo.

buckhorn_cortez · September 11, 2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

There's that. I like it because my sub compact .45, doesn't really care for "traditional" HPs. The edge tends to stick on the ramp - not an issue with the PDX1s due to the rounded tip.

One of the reasons I've chosen the PDX1 - the bullet profile is rounded and the rounds feed in all of my semi-auto pistols.

I also like the fact that it is nickel plated as the smoother outer surface of the cartridge helps in feeding in the magazine.

Quote:

...several people in NJ have been arrested/charged/served time for being in posession of hollow point or expanding ammo.

Reason #4951 for not living in NJ...if the FBI can shoot citizens with their chosen ammunition - then I should be able to use exactly the same ammunition.

GeauxTide · September 11, 2012, 01:09 PM

We've had a few home invasions recently in our area, so I talked with our local officials. Their sidearms are Glock 40s with JHP, so they were not concerned with my selection of .357, 41Mag, 45ACP, and 12ga.

Steviewonder1 · September 11, 2012, 02:15 PM

When I get thru shooting all of my Cor-Bon DPX in 9MM and 45ACP, I will be moving into my supply of Winchester Ranger T for 9MM +P+, 40S&W and 45ACP+P. Both brands are street proven, but the Winchester costs 1/3 of what the Cor-Bon does.

Kreyzhorse · September 11, 2012, 02:20 PM

I use either Speer Gold Dots or Federal Hydroshock HP ammo depending on what gun I'm using.

I have zero concerns about explaining my ammo choice to a jury. If I shoot someone it will be because my life was in danger and I needed to stop the threat. The ammo I used simply helped me to do that.

sigcurious · September 11, 2012, 02:32 PM

I use Federal HST, never was concerned with what a jury might think. I chose it because it works in my pistols and it can be had at reasonable prices compared to the other SD ammo choices at my LGS.

beex215 · September 11, 2012, 02:35 PM

i use rusty titanium poison tips. i dont care about the jury as long as im alive.

Stressfire · September 11, 2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

i use rusty titanium poison tips

Nice! I didn't know they still made those. Isn't that what Roy Scheider was cooking up in Jaws?

Drudge · September 11, 2012, 04:50 PM

I'd rather save my life with hollow points and face the jury then face my maker.

September 11, 2012, 11:29 AM	#1
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	What type of ammo do you use for carry/home defense? In another thread, someone mentioned having to explain to a juror the type of ammo used. "I wouldn't wanna have to explain to a jury in a court of law why I used it." My question is what do you use for SD/HD ammo? Does the thought of having to explain your ammo choice to a juror affect your decision?

September 11, 2012, 11:48 AM	#5
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Its your attorney's job to defend you,,, I use ball ammo,,, But we won't go into why. In one of the training sessions I have attended,,, They brought this same subject up for a discussion topic. One of the instructors (a lawyer) said this is a common tactic in a civil suit,,, The plaintiff's attorney will often try to paint you as a villain,,, Based solely on your choice of ammunition. If you use hollow-point he paints you as a rabid killer,,, If you use ball ammo he paints you as a para-military whack-job. One man suggested we call our local police and ask what they use,,, And if possible to use the same brand and design. Personally I don't think you can prepare ahead against this strategy,,, You will be damned whether you use HP or FMJ ammunition. It's up to your attorney to defend against this tactic. The best advice I can relate on this is what I received from the class,,, Only use commercially available self-defense ammunition,,, Don't use your own (or anyone else's) handloads. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

September 11, 2012, 11:48 AM	#6
Stressfire Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,497	9mm HD/SD - Corbon DPX 115gr .45 HD & Carry - Winchester PDX 230gr .380 Carry - Hornady Critical Defense 90gr All factory, all the time for any defensive purpose __________________ "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott

September 11, 2012, 12:02 PM	#8
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	There are a variety of different bullet designs within what I think of as the "acceptable window of performance." Of those, I try to stick with those that perform best in my carry pistol. As for juries . . Handloads are a huge no-no, but that's an evidentiary matter that's been hashed out elsewhere. There are cases in which the choice of bullet design has been something of an issue. Harold Fish was one such case, IIRC. Accordingly, I recognize that bullet choice can be an issue with jurors. So do I let the prospect of explaining my choice to a jury affect my decision? Not greatly, but it wouldn't be honest for me to claim that it "absolutely, in no way" colors my decision. If I can get the same performance out of a bullet called the "XDR-28" as I can another called the "MurderousManMauler 5000," guess which one I'm going with. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

September 11, 2012, 12:07 PM	#9
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	M855 for home defense. Buffalo Bore 115gr flat nose 9x18 for CCW __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

September 11, 2012, 11:47 AM	#4
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	I use Hornady CD, TAP, Fed HST or Win PDX. It all depends on what shoots best with the pistol used. I don't for a moment think I will get tried based on the ammo I use or do I let it stop me from choosing the type of ammo.

September 11, 2012, 11:58 AM	#7
Loronzo Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2012 Posts: 121	I carry these in my .40 ( http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...d=3472900.7552) with 2 backup mags of Hornady "Zmax". My carry pistols are loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. Undoubtedly if in a SD situation I would be most concerned with removing the imediate threat. Also there is a concern of overpenetration that by using HP's or the like would be a better option than FMJ ball load. As long as you aren't violating state or federal laws I would think you should carry what you are comfortable with/ shoot accurately. Confidence in your ammo could mean the difference in life or death in a shooting. Worrying about what would happen if in trial would (in most cases) mean that the shooting appeared unjustified from the get go. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the people on these forums carry for protection only. We train regularly, keep our firearms in good repair and try to avoid confrontation as much as possible on the premise that if we are faced with a life or death situation that we will live, even though we hope beyond hope we never have to draw and fire our weapons. Now on the other hand you might have a hard time explaining to the responding officer why your AP. 223 round went through your house and the neighbor's and hit his dog in the back yard... then you may be explaining that one to a jury. I would recomend just carrying what you are comfortable/familiar with, take into account your surroundings and load accordingly, there is no "perfect cartridge" same as no "perfect gun" for every situation but some are better than others. (Again just make sure to follow all applicable state and federal laws regarding the procurement and usage of ammo).

September 11, 2012, 12:15 PM	#11
buckhorn_cortez Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Posts: 857	I use Winchest PDX1 - it's one of the rounds chosen by the FBI. If the government uses it to shoot...whomever....then I shouldn't be restricted in my choice to use it either since its "governement approved."

September 11, 2012, 12:57 PM	#15
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	There only person on record for getting in "trouble" in a criminal prosecution for using a particular type of ammunition, was someone using a 10mm as it was more "powerful" than what the police used in Phoenix. So as of now, I would be concerned about using a 10mm if I cared about that issue. My attitude is make sure you are justified in using deadly force. Use a .500 S&W but make sure you are justified in using deadly force and don't sweat the ammunition as long as it will do the job.

September 11, 2012, 01:06 PM	#16
Woody55 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: East Texas Posts: 407	I pretty much do what @aarondhgraham mentioned. I don't use hand loads. I think that's the easiest way to be characterized as some sort of crazy gun freak who wants to kill someone. Besides, I hand load for target shooting. I found out what the local police are authorized to use, and - at least as to type - if not the exact brand, that's what I use. I figure it isn't likely to antagonize the DA and would give my attorney (God forbid) the most ammunition (pun intended) to refute the opposition's arguments. As far as effectiveness goes, well I don't want to kill anyone anyway. And I've always figured that as you threaten, shoot and hit someone you probably take care of 90% of your problems at each level.

September 11, 2012, 01:09 PM	#19
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	We've had a few home invasions recently in our area, so I talked with our local officials. Their sidearms are Glock 40s with JHP, so they were not concerned with my selection of .357, 41Mag, 45ACP, and 12ga.

September 11, 2012, 02:15 PM	#20
Steviewonder1 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: John's Creek, Georgia Posts: 328	When I get thru shooting all of my Cor-Bon DPX in 9MM and 45ACP, I will be moving into my supply of Winchester Ranger T for 9MM +P+, 40S&W and 45ACP+P. Both brands are street proven, but the Winchester costs 1/3 of what the Cor-Bon does.

September 11, 2012, 02:20 PM	#21
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	I use either Speer Gold Dots or Federal Hydroshock HP ammo depending on what gun I'm using. I have zero concerns about explaining my ammo choice to a jury. If I shoot someone it will be because my life was in danger and I needed to stop the threat. The ammo I used simply helped me to do that. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

September 11, 2012, 02:32 PM	#22
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	I use Federal HST, never was concerned with what a jury might think. I chose it because it works in my pistols and it can be had at reasonable prices compared to the other SD ammo choices at my LGS.

September 11, 2012, 02:35 PM	#23
beex215 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Posts: 317	i use rusty titanium poison tips. i dont care about the jury as long as im alive. __________________ my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/beehasagun1?feature=mhee

September 11, 2012, 04:50 PM	#25
Drudge Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 37	I'd rather save my life with hollow points and face the jury then face my maker.