1911 Trigger problems?

Catchabullet · November 30, 2015, 04:55 AM

Hi,

I have recently detailed cleaned my series 80 Colt Commander (with Ed Brown parts, so... not stock, I feel that is important information) and if the trigger is depressed all the way down (to feel reset upon letting off), it will not allow me to pull the slide back with it depressed all the way. I have to let off a tiny bit for it to allow me to pull the slide rearward.

I figured, "Hey, maybe i assembly it incorrectly." so took it apart and found everything in the right place (series 80 parts were a concern.). Would the overtravel screw need adjustment to fix this problem? Someone please explain....
Thanks in advance for your help.

DAVID NANCARROW · November 30, 2015, 05:56 AM

It really depends on what exactly is catching which causes the slide to lock. I'm just guessing here, but i suppose its possible for the series 80 linkage to push the lever into the firing pin plunger far enough to catch there. Only way to tell is to mark it up with a sharpie and test.

If that is the case, you could adjust the trigger stop in order to prevent this from happening.

Everyone has their way about adjusting the trigger stop. I turn it in until it won't release a cocked hammer on an EMPTY chamber, then turn it 1/4 turn at a time until it releases, then a quarter turn more so the sear has some clearance. Blue loctite the screw or fingernail polish so the screw stays put.

RickB · November 30, 2015, 06:54 AM

Usually, the concern with Series 80 and trigger overtravel is insufficient travel, rather than excessive travel.
Is the Series 80 plunger in the slide in good condition? I'd think the length of the plunger would be chosen to prevent it being over-compressed and allowing the upper lever to catch on the plunger hole.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 30, 2015, 11:44 AM

With the trigger fully to the rear (which I would not refer to as "down," so I'm not sure we're on the same page), the rear of the trigger stirrup/bow and the disconnector are all the way to the back. This increases the amount of force applied to the disconnector by the middle leg of the sear spring. That may be enough to prevent the disconnector to drop as you try to rack the slide. It would certainly make it more difficult.

The real question is, why would you intentionally rack the slide with your finger anywhere near the trigger? Remember the rule: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to fire). IMHO we should NEVER practice something that's a direct violation of the basic rules of firearms safety. NEVER.

Don P · November 30, 2015, 11:58 AM

By depressing an holding the trigger when racking the slide. Doing this prevents the hammer and sear from rubbing and hitting each other, Hopefully racking of the slide and depressing the trigger is being done with a unloaded gun. To answer the OP's question all my 1911's can be racked while the trigger is held back in the fire position

RickB · November 30, 2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

The real question is, why would you intentionally rack the slide with your finger anywhere near the trigger?

I'll admit to doing this more than infrequently, as a test of proper function. If there's a problem with the disconnector or sear spring, the hammer might follow the slide rather than properly resetting.

RKG · November 30, 2015, 03:27 PM

As a quick guess, verify that the "sear spring" (and all of its leaves) are seated properly.

Mike_Fontenot · November 30, 2015, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila_Blanca

The real question is, why would you intentionally rack the slide with your finger anywhere near the trigger?

It's called a "bulls-eye reload". If your 1911's trigger is set very light, the trigger can get "inertially pulled" when the slide slams home via slingshotting or a slidelock release, if the trigger has reset. To prevent this, you can either (1) be certain to keep the grip lever completely uncompressed (which means that you grip the gun well below the grip-lever during the entire slingshotting operation, or (2) before releasing the slide (with it locked back), you pull the trigger full aft and be certain to keep it there until after the slide has slammed home ... that prevents the trigger from reseting. The hammer can't be released if the trigger hasn't reset.

Sharkbite · November 30, 2015, 09:50 PM

Thats also the best way to test trigger reset after re-assembly

Catchabullet · December 2, 2015, 12:47 AM

I assure you that it being done on an unloaded firearm as I check before doing so as well as do not point the firearm at something you're not willing to destroy. It is done to feel the point at which the trigger "resets". That being said, I ordered the series 80 plunger spring to install... it should be here tomorrow, I will keep you all posted.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 2, 2015, 02:13 AM

I'm not sure replacing the plunger spring (you're referring to the firing pin safety spring, not the plunger spring on the left side of the frame, right?) would have any effect. It's not a strong spring even when new.

If you suspect that the firing pin safety lever may be blocking the slide, for testing you could get a shim from Brownells to replace those two levers in the frame and then test for slide retraction. The firing pin safety won't work with the spacer in place, of course, so you'll want to lower the hammer manually rather than pound the firing pin against the stop plunger, but you can do that and still hold the trigger back for testing.

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-par...prod13121.aspx

gyvel · December 2, 2015, 02:18 AM

Quote:

The real question is, why would you intentionally rack the slide with your finger anywhere near the trigger?

To me, it would be a function check of the disconnector.

BTW: It's easy enough to convert a Series 80 to a "Series 70" by simply removing the two plunger levers and replacing them with spacers (or small washers that fit correctly), removing the firing pin block plunger and installing a pre 80 hammer.

DAVID NANCARROW · December 2, 2015, 02:54 AM

Not certain that the plunger spring is going to solve the issue, but if it is the arm next to the hammer which actuates the firing pin plunger, they do come in various lengths so you can adjust the timing.

polyphemus · December 2, 2015, 08:42 AM

OP writes that the issue started after he "detailed cleaned" his pistol.
A good hint about what is causing it as he points out himself.But just because
when he went back he "found everything in the right place" that doesn't necessarily mean that it was.

gyvel · December 2, 2015, 01:49 PM

Yep. ^^^^^^^^^^^

RickB · December 2, 2015, 04:05 PM

Determining if everything is in the right place can be done with the gun assembled.
Field-strip the gun, and if the hammer stays back when cocked, if the hammer falls - restrained by the thumb - without hitting the sear, if the frame lever rises as the trigger is pulled, everything should be in the right place.

ms6852 · December 2, 2015, 04:42 PM

I believe you had the answer, adjust the over travel screw until you get the results you seek.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 2, 2015, 04:59 PM

[QUOTE-ms6852]I believe you had the answer, adjust the over travel screw until you get the results you seek. [/QUOTE]
A lot of 1911s have been damaged by people trying to adjust that screw when they didn't need to do so, and didn't understand what it is and how it works.

How could adjusting the trigger over-travel screw in any way affect being able to rack the slide with the trigger pulled?

Catchabullet · December 2, 2015, 05:12 PM

......I reassemble the firearm two more times to be OCD... still didn't work...
Firing pin safety spring came in... installed it... didn't work..... ....

Adjusted overtravel screw....one 1/4 turn, and it works like a dream again.

So much anger....but relief

RickB · December 2, 2015, 05:52 PM

Be sure to check that the firing pin is clear of the plunger when the hammer drops, and that the hammer is not hitting the sear (when your measure of success is being able to rack the slide).

Catchabullet · December 2, 2015, 06:07 PM

No hang ups on the hammer drop, and pen launch...check, did that when adjusting it.

ms6852 · December 3, 2015, 03:44 AM

In reply to aguila Blanca ,sometimes triggers with over travel screws if the screws are not staked or have loctite the screws will move out of adjustment from ordinary use. The bow in the trigger will sometimes lift the disconnector which in turn will lift the sear spring off the sear. This does not occur in all triggers with over travel screws, just some.

I hope this answers your question "Aguila". I'm sorry I do not know how to quote in this forum.

DAVID NANCARROW · December 3, 2015, 05:50 AM

Glad to know its working for you.

Happy shooting sir!

November 30, 2015, 04:55 AM	#1
Catchabullet Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 317	1911 Trigger problems? Hi, I have recently detailed cleaned my series 80 Colt Commander (with Ed Brown parts, so... not stock, I feel that is important information) and if the trigger is depressed all the way down (to feel reset upon letting off), it will not allow me to pull the slide back with it depressed all the way. I have to let off a tiny bit for it to allow me to pull the slide rearward. I figured, "Hey, maybe i assembly it incorrectly." so took it apart and found everything in the right place (series 80 parts were a concern.). Would the overtravel screw need adjustment to fix this problem? Someone please explain.... Thanks in advance for your help. __________________ I may be a Scientist but....I never said I was smart.

November 30, 2015, 06:54 AM	#3
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Usually, the concern with Series 80 and trigger overtravel is insufficient travel, rather than excessive travel. Is the Series 80 plunger in the slide in good condition? I'd think the length of the plunger would be chosen to prevent it being over-compressed and allowing the upper lever to catch on the plunger hole. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

November 30, 2015, 11:58 AM	#5
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	By depressing an holding the trigger when racking the slide. Doing this prevents the hammer and sear from rubbing and hitting each other, Hopefully racking of the slide and depressing the trigger is being done with a unloaded gun. To answer the OP's question all my 1911's can be racked while the trigger is held back in the fire position __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 2, 2015, 12:47 AM	#10
Catchabullet Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 317	"Safety" I assure you that it being done on an unloaded firearm as I check before doing so as well as do not point the firearm at something you're not willing to destroy. It is done to feel the point at which the trigger "resets". That being said, I ordered the series 80 plunger spring to install... it should be here tomorrow, I will keep you all posted. __________________ I may be a Scientist but....I never said I was smart.

December 2, 2015, 01:49 PM	#15
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Yep. ^^^^^^^^^^^ __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

November 30, 2015, 05:56 AM	#2
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	It really depends on what exactly is catching which causes the slide to lock. I'm just guessing here, but i suppose its possible for the series 80 linkage to push the lever into the firing pin plunger far enough to catch there. Only way to tell is to mark it up with a sharpie and test. If that is the case, you could adjust the trigger stop in order to prevent this from happening. Everyone has their way about adjusting the trigger stop. I turn it in until it won't release a cocked hammer on an EMPTY chamber, then turn it 1/4 turn at a time until it releases, then a quarter turn more so the sear has some clearance. Blue loctite the screw or fingernail polish so the screw stays put.

November 30, 2015, 11:44 AM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	With the trigger fully to the rear (which I would not refer to as "down," so I'm not sure we're on the same page), the rear of the trigger stirrup/bow and the disconnector are all the way to the back. This increases the amount of force applied to the disconnector by the middle leg of the sear spring. That may be enough to prevent the disconnector to drop as you try to rack the slide. It would certainly make it more difficult. The real question is, why would you intentionally rack the slide with your finger anywhere near the trigger? Remember the rule: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to fire). IMHO we should NEVER practice something that's a direct violation of the basic rules of firearms safety. NEVER.

November 30, 2015, 03:27 PM	#7
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	As a quick guess, verify that the "sear spring" (and all of its leaves) are seated properly.

November 30, 2015, 09:50 PM	#9
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Thats also the best way to test trigger reset after re-assembly

December 2, 2015, 02:13 AM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	I'm not sure replacing the plunger spring (you're referring to the firing pin safety spring, not the plunger spring on the left side of the frame, right?) would have any effect. It's not a strong spring even when new. If you suspect that the firing pin safety lever may be blocking the slide, for testing you could get a shim from Brownells to replace those two levers in the frame and then test for slide retraction. The firing pin safety won't work with the spacer in place, of course, so you'll want to lower the hammer manually rather than pound the firing pin against the stop plunger, but you can do that and still hold the trigger back for testing. http://www.brownells.com/handgun-par...prod13121.aspx

December 2, 2015, 02:54 AM	#13
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Not certain that the plunger spring is going to solve the issue, but if it is the arm next to the hammer which actuates the firing pin plunger, they do come in various lengths so you can adjust the timing.

December 2, 2015, 08:42 AM	#14
polyphemus Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 1,055	OP writes that the issue started after he "detailed cleaned" his pistol. A good hint about what is causing it as he points out himself.But just because when he went back he "found everything in the right place" that doesn't necessarily mean that it was.

December 2, 2015, 04:05 PM	#16
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Determining if everything is in the right place can be done with the gun assembled. Field-strip the gun, and if the hammer stays back when cocked, if the hammer falls - restrained by the thumb - without hitting the sear, if the frame lever rises as the trigger is pulled, everything should be in the right place. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

December 2, 2015, 04:42 PM	#17
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	I believe you had the answer, adjust the over travel screw until you get the results you seek. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

December 2, 2015, 04:59 PM	#18
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	[QUOTE-ms6852]I believe you had the answer, adjust the over travel screw until you get the results you seek. [/QUOTE] A lot of 1911s have been damaged by people trying to adjust that screw when they didn't need to do so, and didn't understand what it is and how it works. How could adjusting the trigger over-travel screw in any way affect being able to rack the slide with the trigger pulled?

December 2, 2015, 05:52 PM	#20
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Be sure to check that the firing pin is clear of the plunger when the hammer drops, and that the hammer is not hitting the sear (when your measure of success is being able to rack the slide). __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

December 2, 2015, 06:07 PM	#21
Catchabullet Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 317	check... No hang ups on the hammer drop, and pen launch...check, did that when adjusting it. __________________ I may be a Scientist but....I never said I was smart.

December 3, 2015, 03:44 AM	#22
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	In reply to aguila Blanca ,sometimes triggers with over travel screws if the screws are not staked or have loctite the screws will move out of adjustment from ordinary use. The bow in the trigger will sometimes lift the disconnector which in turn will lift the sear spring off the sear. This does not occur in all triggers with over travel screws, just some. I hope this answers your question "Aguila". I'm sorry I do not know how to quote in this forum. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

December 3, 2015, 05:50 AM	#23
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Glad to know its working for you. Happy shooting sir!