Why get a 20 gauge?

[Dave McC]

Shooting any gauge is fun, Solitar. And BTW, good to see you here again.

My little experience with either a 10 or a 28 has been a classic hoot.

One acquaitance has a 10 Gauge Fox. He shoots an occasional round of trap with it and some light handloads. It works for him.

In days of yore, many dedicated wingshooters never owned a 12 gauge. They'd have a 10 or 8 gauge for waterfowl and a 16 or 20 for the uplands.

[Solitar]

Thanks Dave.

Methinks people are trying to stretch the 12 gauge to do everything that used to be covered by the 28 gauge to 10 or 8 gauge spread. Thus we have short shells from Aguila, "tactical" low-recoil loads and then on the top end the heaviest 3 1/2" 12 gauge which tries to do the job of a 10 gauge.

This is like trying to use the .223 for shooting rabbits or squirrels AND using it to shoot northern whitetails or elk. It may be just too much of a spread.

Nevertheless, it has become a lot easier to cover a wide range with a 12 gauge than with a centerfire rifle. But folks who are proficient on either end of the scale do have an advantage because their shotgun is matched better to the game.

[Dave McC]

You're very welcome, Solitar. The All Purpose 12 Gauge Myth doth pervade all Shotgunnia. The fact that a proper waterfowler will run 8 lbs plus whereas most upland hunters go for shotguns weighing less than 7 does stand in the way of a beautiful theory, but that's life...

And, like most myths, a kernel of truth is in it.

A decent shot with a heavy 12 will not be far behind a decent shot with a 10 in a goose blind, and a nice little upland 12 with an oz of shot is way better for most folks than a strained oz from the smaller 20.

I use Frankenstein for both, but freely admit a heavy and longer version would be better for waterfowl, and a few oz lighter in the uplands, but we're talking compromise here. Frank thumps heavy with goose loads and carries heavy in quail and woodcock habitat.So be it, I still like it.

I'd love a 6 1/2 lb,12 gauge 870 for the uplands. Second choice, an Ithaca 37.

As for the NEED for a 3 1/2" 12, I'm still skeptical....

[Solitar]

But since some of us may more rationalization for "why" a 20 gauge.
1) Cause we already have a 12 and the 20 is the next most popular.
2) Cause a 20 is just part of a complete set (410, 28, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8)
3) Cause we have some 20 gauge shells and need a gun to use 'em in.
4) Cause we just might want to teach some smaller person shotgunning.

[wingnutx]

I bought a 20 gauge for home defense, so my 5', 100-lb girlfriend can learn to shoot it.

It's a Winchester 1300 with a youth stock added, and i still have to cut the stock down some to allow her to reach the foregrip when she has it shouldered.

[labgrade]

I love a 20 for most all my shotguning "needs" - kinda got trapped back into 'em when starting off a son & The Wife (both about 5' & 100lbs at the time).

BTW, dfaugh, my Dad too in the tail-end of 17s although he was winning $$s before with his 870 before he "graduated" to 50s.

Can't argue with any of the thoughts on 20s. I prefer to carry 'em in-field for 90% of the bird hunting I do, but did have to mod the stock on one of our 870 Youths due to my 6'5" frame - a tad short on the LOP & had to shim the stock downward for a proper sight picture. Surely wasn't a "fault" of a 20, more the Youth model.

Nice l'il handy package those 20s. Now to find a local source for some 20 Brennekes to round out that package .... that IS a hint.

Onliest thing I could bitch about 20s (if that) is the scarcity of offerings relative to that of the 12s. I did pick up several boxes of 1-1/4oz #2s & 4s (turkey loads which pattern quite nicely when you pick your choke - nice duck load, BTW - if only ... ) & most everything else is covered for woodland game, but I've found locally, not much in the way of buck or slugs.

[Dave McC]

Labgrade, you fingered one drawback to the 20, a minor one.

With all the research into producing 12 gauge target loads and the zillions of same sold every year, the 20 has no common equivalent of the AA Heavy Trap load, one outstanding performer in the uplands.

There's plenty of field loads, but these do not have shot as hard nor round as the premium stuff.

There's definitely less variety in buck and slugs. I've not seen 20 gauge buck other than #3, and the selection of slgus is less than half the 12 gauge choices.

OTOH,the Rottweil Brennekes (marked Dynamit Nobel) are great deer loads, and among the most accurate in the few 20s I've tested them in. They're found in most gun shops and chain stores here.

HTH....

[Dagny]

Why a 20?
Because it doesn't hammer a shoulder as hard as a 12.
Because the gun itself is lighter.
Okay, a 3" magnum in a light 20 will recoil like a 12 but, then you can use even lighter 20 gauge loads.

[Dave McC]

Dagny, yes but...

The 20 gauge YE here weighs a hair less than 7 lbs, and Frankenstein a hair more in its present incarnation. The 20 kicks harder with a 7/8 oz load(tho not painfully hard) than Frank with a 1 oz. This has more to do with stock dimensions than weight or load, IMO.

1 oz 20 gauge loads kick MUCH harder,more than 1 1/4 oz 12 gauge ringneck whackers do in Frank.

Of course, this is subjective, and is but one example.

And through reloading, I can tailor a 12 gauge load down to 28 gauge levels, like a 3/4 oz creampuff.

But if there's not that much logic in a 20, shotgunning is not all logical. Shoot what you want...

[labgrade]

I'd say, & hugely subjective (YE 870) kicks harder than any equivalent 12 loading, & would agree that it's probably fit more than anything else (& weight, if you throw in physics). I buy off-the-shelf & have only ever "fitted" one shotgun & that was the mentioned 20 youth stock shimming. Other than that, they fit "good enough."

A 20's great to carry 'round the field just because of the lighter weight & handier package + they'll do 90% of a 12, all told. Maybe more, as I wouldn't be totin' around my 20 for turkey or waterfowl anyway .... you pick the tool for the game.

Far as recoil, it seems to get lost somewhere in the "thrill" of the shot (to me anyways). I don't shoot competition, & actual live game is somewhat spotty - here 'n there = no biggie, so it really never comes into play regards the constant "pounding," if that. & really, what's the limit for the game afoot? 20 for doves? 3+ (or so, if you want to waterfowl), 1 turkey, those few rabbits, etc. It never mattered to me as anything pratical ....

The 20 serves plenty good enough for us "beater-types" when we don't feel like packin' the weight of as 12

Certaintly not to be anywise contradictory, but just to add a "why we go to the woods" thought. I carry a lightweight .308 "downloaded" relative to my .30-06 (for CO elk hunting) for the same reasons - it still does the job, recoil's a moot point when taking the shot - I've yet to see the lack for what I do. YMMV

[Dave McC]

Looks like I'm not the only one up early today, Lab.

Shooting at live game, I rarely, if ever feel the kick. Sometimes I don't hear the bang either, adrenalin focussing at its best. And except for doves in South America, or those upper class Brit pheasant drives, hardly any wingshooting burns up much ammo.

Again, the biggest drawback to the 20 is the lack of a common, reasonably priced equivalent to a trap load with its premium components and ultra hard shot. A good hand with a reloader negates that.

I shot at PGC yesterday with a shooter I know, mentioned in a recent thread. He doesn't reload and was out of 12 gauge ammo, so he shot some trap with his 11-87 20 gauge. 7/8 oz loads, full choke, and he smoked plenty.

[labgrade]

Finally get to disagree with you, Dave.

"Looks like I'm not the only one up early today, Lab."

I'm up late. 3:10AM in CO ...

All a matter of personal perspective in so many things, no?

All told, if you can't do it with a 20, you probably couldn't do it with a 12 ... (except for those very rare nit-pick things )

[CMichael]

One reason to buy a 20 gauge other than for HD is to sharpen your skills at trap or skeet. If you can hit the bird with a 20 gauge you have a much greater chance hitting it with a 12 gauge.

Michael

[Dave McC]

Good point, Michael. All else equal, the lighter payload requires a tighter choke to keep pattern density up, thus meaning a smaller pattern. This'll teach one to hold closer.

[Chipperman]

My first shotgun was a Mossy 500 20g. B'Day present from Pop when I was 12. Still have it.
One of those guns I would never sell, no matter what.

Anyway, I never thought of the kick from it as being harsh. I think a 20g vs 12g shotgun is analogous to a .40 vs .45 handgun.
The 20g and .40 recoils are short and snappy whereas the 12g and .45 are more of a strong push.

This comparison is assuming similar loads in similar models, of course.

[Dave McC]

Chip, it has to be apples to apples to be valid.

"Kick" is subjective. Recoil can be measured.

Cherish that 20 gauge...

[Beyond_Visual_Range]

Aren't 20GA quite abit cheaper to shoot than 12GA? Thanks for the post, I've been trying to pick a 12/20GA for my first shotgun. 20 might be easier to get me started.

[labgrade]

Just depends, locally, & for what flavors.

I've seen some same-same 20 gauge shells going for a bit more than 12 just because it's not as "common." Seems sometimes to be a "specialty ammo thing." Go figure.

You'd think that less stuff should equate to less $$ - not always. Price 28 gauge shells sometimes. Should be less than 20 - not so usually. & then there's that ".410 thing." They get way pricey sometimes .....

Supply & demand & what the buyer will pay - economics in action.

[Rail Gun]

[/quote]2) Cause a 20 is just part of a complete set (410, 28, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8) [/quote]
Where can you get a 8 guage shotgun? And where can you get modern ammo for it? I thought they were illegal except for industrial use.