280 Rem Handloads

thekyrifleman · January 2, 2008, 04:15 PM

Hello anybody...I know there have been some older posts re this issue, but I thought I'd bring it up again. I have had now for two years a Rem 700 in 280. Got it as a retirement gift and love it. I have quite a few other 7mm calibers and reload a lot ( more than 40 years) but here is the question....I happened to get an old copy of Outdoor Life, may 1989 and there is an article by Jim Carmichael re 270 vs 280 where he mentions a load....57gr of IMR 4350, 140 gr Nosler Partition, 3065fps out of a custom 280. He also says he could probably go another "2 grains with no pressure problems". That is at least 4-5 gr above what I can find in any of my manuals including the recent Nosler #6!! My current load is 57 gr of RL19...all looks well with it...threw it together for this past deer season in PA. Groups about an inch.

Comments anyone , please.

**Unclenick** · January 2, 2008, 05:31 PM

Pressure in a particular chamber depends on the volume the case expands into during firing, not the volume of the resized case. It therefore depends on your chamber's dimensions. It also depends on the dimensions of your bore, since the bullet is usually a couple of inches on its way down the tube when peak pressure is reached, and the volume of the bore behind its base is added to your expanded case volume to determine peak pressure confinement. So, the absollute maximum safe loads depend on the dimensions of your individual gun, and will vary from one to the next.

Additionally, SAMMI maximum pressures are usually set to be safe for older guns not kept in peak condition. Remember, the gun withstood a proof load that was over the SAMMI maximum for regular loaded ammunition in that chambering. It would ultimately stress and fatigue the gun to give it a steady diet of proof loads, but it did withstand one and would certainly survive a few more. It is not uncommon, for guns in good condition, to show no pressure signs at all until you are well over SAMMI maximums. In certain extreme instances of using old cartridge designs in modern guns, like using the .45-70 in a Ruger #1 rifle, the SAMMI maximum can often be doubled without the gun being unreasonably stressed.

CAUTION: That last statement is for illustrative purposes only, and cannot be counted on to apply to your particular Ruger #1 or other rifle.

So, what's a body to do? Benchrest shooters often find that the best accuracy loads occur just short of their gun's maximums. So, work up loads for accuracy rather than peak muzzle velocity, and you will save yourself grief and disappointment. For all the hoopla about getting that extra 100 fps out of a gun, the game animals seldom notice the difference. Neither will the added flatness of trajectory be big enough that you can hold well enough to see it from field positions. It certainly won't trump a loss of accuracy.

Learn the pressure signs and work up slowly toward an accuracy sweet spot. None of the pressure signs is reliable in and of itself, but combined they usually warn of impending disaster. If you find that scary, you can go so far as to acquire strain gauge pressure measuring gear, but that isn't generally necessary. The accuracy sweet spots usually show up before the loads get too adventurous. You might consider Dan Newberry's round robin method of finding such a load.

oldscot3 · January 2, 2008, 09:36 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when Remington introduced the 280 (7mm express?) it was chambered in their pump and autoloading rifles, not the bolt actions, and therefore pressure (in the factory ammo)was reduced somewhat. When chambered for a modern bolt action, the 280 can be loaded to equal a 270, no problemo.

thekyrifleman · January 3, 2008, 12:08 PM

hey Unclenick...Thanks for the great reply. I am aware and understand all the issues you brought up, as i said, I have been reloading for over 40 years, starting with a Lee Loader and a hammer!!

My goal is always, accuracy and precision first at the best velocity that is safe, and for sure you are right that it occurs somewhere just below maximum. I pay attention to pressure signs such as primer condition, case expansion, etc. short of gluing the strain guage on. I have just gotten a RCBS Precision Mike for this rifle and have yet to check the chamber, but my guess is it will be a min cut.
I experienced exactly what you mentioned when I got my 7mm STW, it was still a wildcat then and my load work up was based on the extensive article by Layne Siimpson in Shooting Times. Found his recommendations to be very good and it appears that I have according to his description, a "fast barrel". Once it was commercialized though, the loading manuals really tamed it down. I guess what I ws looking for on my first post here was some general coments as to what loads people have found to work well.

Thanks again.

**Mike Irwin** · January 3, 2008, 12:28 PM

Note also that Carmichael said CUSTOM gun.

Does he ever really state what custom means?

It could mean that the barrel has a more open leade and throat, which would work to keep pressures lower.

That said, EVERY firearm is an individual. What is perfectly safe in one might well be dangerous in another from the same (or different) manufacturer.

January 2, 2008, 05:31 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Pressure in a particular chamber depends on the volume the case expands into during firing, not the volume of the resized case. It therefore depends on your chamber's dimensions. It also depends on the dimensions of your bore, since the bullet is usually a couple of inches on its way down the tube when peak pressure is reached, and the volume of the bore behind its base is added to your expanded case volume to determine peak pressure confinement. So, the absollute maximum safe loads depend on the dimensions of your individual gun, and will vary from one to the next. Additionally, SAMMI maximum pressures are usually set to be safe for older guns not kept in peak condition. Remember, the gun withstood a proof load that was over the SAMMI maximum for regular loaded ammunition in that chambering. It would ultimately stress and fatigue the gun to give it a steady diet of proof loads, but it did withstand one and would certainly survive a few more. It is not uncommon, for guns in good condition, to show no pressure signs at all until you are well over SAMMI maximums. In certain extreme instances of using old cartridge designs in modern guns, like using the .45-70 in a Ruger #1 rifle, the SAMMI maximum can often be doubled without the gun being unreasonably stressed. CAUTION: That last statement is for illustrative purposes only, and cannot be counted on to apply to your particular Ruger #1 or other rifle. So, what's a body to do? Benchrest shooters often find that the best accuracy loads occur just short of their gun's maximums. So, work up loads for accuracy rather than peak muzzle velocity, and you will save yourself grief and disappointment. For all the hoopla about getting that extra 100 fps out of a gun, the game animals seldom notice the difference. Neither will the added flatness of trajectory be big enough that you can hold well enough to see it from field positions. It certainly won't trump a loss of accuracy. Learn the pressure signs and work up slowly toward an accuracy sweet spot. None of the pressure signs is reliable in and of itself, but combined they usually warn of impending disaster. If you find that scary, you can go so far as to acquire strain gauge pressure measuring gear, but that isn't generally necessary. The accuracy sweet spots usually show up before the loads get too adventurous. You might consider Dan Newberry's round robin method of finding such a load. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 3, 2008, 12:08 PM	#4
thekyrifleman Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Northern Ky Posts: 254	280 Loads hey Unclenick...Thanks for the great reply. I am aware and understand all the issues you brought up, as i said, I have been reloading for over 40 years, starting with a Lee Loader and a hammer!! My goal is always, accuracy and precision first at the best velocity that is safe, and for sure you are right that it occurs somewhere just below maximum. I pay attention to pressure signs such as primer condition, case expansion, etc. short of gluing the strain guage on. I have just gotten a RCBS Precision Mike for this rifle and have yet to check the chamber, but my guess is it will be a min cut. I experienced exactly what you mentioned when I got my 7mm STW, it was still a wildcat then and my load work up was based on the extensive article by Layne Siimpson in Shooting Times. Found his recommendations to be very good and it appears that I have according to his description, a "fast barrel". Once it was commercialized though, the loading manuals really tamed it down. I guess what I ws looking for on my first post here was some general coments as to what loads people have found to work well. Thanks again.

January 3, 2008, 12:28 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	Note also that Carmichael said CUSTOM gun. Does he ever really state what custom means? It could mean that the barrel has a more open leade and throat, which would work to keep pressures lower. That said, EVERY firearm is an individual. What is perfectly safe in one might well be dangerous in another from the same (or different) manufacturer. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 2, 2008, 04:15 PM	#1
thekyrifleman Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Northern Ky Posts: 254	280 Rem Handloads Hello anybody...I know there have been some older posts re this issue, but I thought I'd bring it up again. I have had now for two years a Rem 700 in 280. Got it as a retirement gift and love it. I have quite a few other 7mm calibers and reload a lot ( more than 40 years) but here is the question....I happened to get an old copy of Outdoor Life, may 1989 and there is an article by Jim Carmichael re 270 vs 280 where he mentions a load....57gr of IMR 4350, 140 gr Nosler Partition, 3065fps out of a custom 280. He also says he could probably go another "2 grains with no pressure problems". That is at least 4-5 gr above what I can find in any of my manuals including the recent Nosler #6!! My current load is 57 gr of RL19...all looks well with it...threw it together for this past deer season in PA. Groups about an inch. Comments anyone , please.

January 2, 2008, 09:36 PM	#3
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when Remington introduced the 280 (7mm express?) it was chambered in their pump and autoloading rifles, not the bolt actions, and therefore pressure (in the factory ammo)was reduced somewhat. When chambered for a modern bolt action, the 280 can be loaded to equal a 270, no problemo.