Berrreta 686 Onyx Pro - sticking shell (brass to the barrel)

Rick-Wy. · December 17, 2007, 05:55 PM

Question:

Only in cold conditions the top shell sticks sealed to the chamber. Then the 2nd barrell will not fire. Not all the time - there seems to be no pattern to the problem.

I took the ejectors apart and filed a couple of rough spots out. Plus I'm using a very limited amount of break free. They slide very freely.

I switched to from the top barrel first to the under barrel to see if that made a difference. Both barrels will now fire, but the top one still sticks - with the brassed sealed to the barrel. I have to take another shell casing to "pop" it out of there.

It never does it when it's warm. The ejectors glide smooth. This is not a lubrication/freezing problem with the ejectors itself. Plus it only happens to the top barrel.

It really seems that inside the chamber the shell brass is freezing to the chamber. Though I do not understand any connection to when shooting the top barrel first the 2nd will not fire.

There are a lot of variables and I've tried most and can't put my finger on anything - plus it does not do it all the time.

Any ideas?? The gun is only a couple of years old.
Does not seem to matter if 3" or 3.5" or for that matter which brand of sheel. (Kent and/or Federal)

A friend also has the same gun - he has problems with Kent 3.5" load regardless of the temperature - not wanting to eject.

Doyle · December 17, 2007, 09:26 PM

Sounds like your chamber is slightly undersized. When it is cold, it contracts making it tight enough to grab he shell. The solution is to hone it out. Any decent gunsmith can do it for you or you could do it yourself if you are careful.

Rick-Wy. · December 19, 2007, 09:52 AM

I did check the chamber(s) and they looked real smooth and clean. Assuming it is a little bit undersized what would be the approach to hone out myself?

Buy one of those honing tools from Brownells?

I read where steel wool wrapped with to bronze brush is an idea. Hard to believe that would do much.

I did mic the chamber and each was about the same for the first half inch that I could measure.

tks rj

Doyle · December 19, 2007, 12:20 PM

The fact that it mic'd out the same worries me a little. It could be that your "undersizing", if you have any, is further into the chamber. Are you using high brass or low brass shells? If you are using low brass shells, then any undersize further down the chamber shouldn't matter.

If you are game, try an experiment. Take your barrel off of the stock and stick it into the refrigerator for a few hours (do it while the wife is gone). Now, take a high brass shell (use several different brands too) and try to gently drop it into both chambers to see if it goes into one easier than the other. That should give you an indication if there is any constriction.

Rick-Wy. · December 19, 2007, 03:35 PM

A good idea, but unfired the extractor always pops the shell out away from the barrel when you break open the action to unload and/or change shells.

It's like the fired shell might be expanding at the brass and or some type of collection between the hull and the chamber. (firing debris next to plastic bonding/freezing to the chamber?)

When it "sticks" the brass the shell casing is SEATED tight to the barrel and released when I take another shell and pop the brass off the barrel.

I've shot some other shells (Federal Black Cloud) other than Kent with the same results - just not predicatable.

Cold with a little moisture just seems to be the common element.

Rick-Wy. · December 19, 2007, 04:05 PM

I spoke with Beretta customer service. Seems Kent shells has produced a number of similiar compliants with O/U's. (poor brass tolerances)

I'm going to switch brands and see.

rj

BigJimP · December 19, 2007, 04:40 PM

I'd be really shocked if it isn't an ammo related problem / expansion of the brass problem.

I'd try some name brand shells like Winchester or Remington and see how you do with those.

Lawyer Daggit · December 19, 2007, 05:37 PM

How old is the gun? I have found Beretta to be very good with warranty claims even when strictly not made in time.

Rick-Wy. · December 20, 2007, 11:25 AM

I'd send the gun if I thought that was a fix. I've also heard that their Customer Service is very good.

However, the ammo seems the most likely bet at this time.

perazzimx14 · December 22, 2007, 10:07 AM

Common misconception... When a shell sticks in the barrel is you need to hone or open up the chamber. In reality if this is a problem with all different ammo the chamber is to big and need to be sleeved to correct the problem.

What happens in the when the chamber is too big and the shell is fired the pressure allow the head of the shell to expand to the walls of the chamber. If the chamber is the correct size it will support the shell and not allow the rapid and excessive expansion.

Steel headed shells are a big problem in alot of O/U's. These are Rio's, Kemen, Kent, Federal Top Gun, Estates and so on. Even if the head of the shell is brass colored doesn't mean it made totally of brass. Check your shells with a magnet if you are not sure.

Premium shell like Winchester AA, Remington STS and Federal Paper usually do not create the sticking problems like their steel headed counterparts.

Rick-Wy. · December 27, 2007, 04:01 PM

Every steel load at home (at least 8 different brands/loads) all were steel.

Same thing goes for the lead shells, except one. Some Remington Trap loads.

Conclusion: If O/U's have a problems with steel, there is NOT much choice!

December 17, 2007, 05:55 PM	#1
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	Berrreta 686 Onyx Pro - sticking shell (brass to the barrel) Question: Only in cold conditions the top shell sticks sealed to the chamber. Then the 2nd barrell will not fire. Not all the time - there seems to be no pattern to the problem. I took the ejectors apart and filed a couple of rough spots out. Plus I'm using a very limited amount of break free. They slide very freely. I switched to from the top barrel first to the under barrel to see if that made a difference. Both barrels will now fire, but the top one still sticks - with the brassed sealed to the barrel. I have to take another shell casing to "pop" it out of there. It never does it when it's warm. The ejectors glide smooth. This is not a lubrication/freezing problem with the ejectors itself. Plus it only happens to the top barrel. It really seems that inside the chamber the shell brass is freezing to the chamber. Though I do not understand any connection to when shooting the top barrel first the 2nd will not fire. There are a lot of variables and I've tried most and can't put my finger on anything - plus it does not do it all the time. Any ideas?? The gun is only a couple of years old. Does not seem to matter if 3" or 3.5" or for that matter which brand of sheel. (Kent and/or Federal) A friend also has the same gun - he has problems with Kent 3.5" load regardless of the temperature - not wanting to eject.

December 17, 2007, 09:26 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Sounds like your chamber is slightly undersized. When it is cold, it contracts making it tight enough to grab he shell. The solution is to hone it out. Any decent gunsmith can do it for you or you could do it yourself if you are careful.

December 19, 2007, 09:52 AM	#3
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	I did check the chamber(s) and they looked real smooth and clean. Assuming it is a little bit undersized what would be the approach to hone out myself? Buy one of those honing tools from Brownells? I read where steel wool wrapped with to bronze brush is an idea. Hard to believe that would do much. I did mic the chamber and each was about the same for the first half inch that I could measure. tks rj

December 19, 2007, 12:20 PM	#4
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	The fact that it mic'd out the same worries me a little. It could be that your "undersizing", if you have any, is further into the chamber. Are you using high brass or low brass shells? If you are using low brass shells, then any undersize further down the chamber shouldn't matter. If you are game, try an experiment. Take your barrel off of the stock and stick it into the refrigerator for a few hours (do it while the wife is gone). Now, take a high brass shell (use several different brands too) and try to gently drop it into both chambers to see if it goes into one easier than the other. That should give you an indication if there is any constriction.

December 19, 2007, 03:35 PM	#5
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	A good idea, but unfired the extractor always pops the shell out away from the barrel when you break open the action to unload and/or change shells. It's like the fired shell might be expanding at the brass and or some type of collection between the hull and the chamber. (firing debris next to plastic bonding/freezing to the chamber?) When it "sticks" the brass the shell casing is SEATED tight to the barrel and released when I take another shell and pop the brass off the barrel. I've shot some other shells (Federal Black Cloud) other than Kent with the same results - just not predicatable. Cold with a little moisture just seems to be the common element.

December 19, 2007, 04:05 PM	#6
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	I spoke with Beretta customer service. Seems Kent shells has produced a number of similiar compliants with O/U's. (poor brass tolerances) I'm going to switch brands and see. rj

December 19, 2007, 04:40 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I'd be really shocked if it isn't an ammo related problem / expansion of the brass problem. I'd try some name brand shells like Winchester or Remington and see how you do with those.

December 19, 2007, 05:37 PM	#8
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	How old is the gun? I have found Beretta to be very good with warranty claims even when strictly not made in time.

December 20, 2007, 11:25 AM	#9
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	I'd send the gun if I thought that was a fix. I've also heard that their Customer Service is very good. However, the ammo seems the most likely bet at this time.

December 22, 2007, 10:07 AM	#10
perazzimx14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2007 Posts: 130	Common misconception... When a shell sticks in the barrel is you need to hone or open up the chamber. In reality if this is a problem with all different ammo the chamber is to big and need to be sleeved to correct the problem. What happens in the when the chamber is too big and the shell is fired the pressure allow the head of the shell to expand to the walls of the chamber. If the chamber is the correct size it will support the shell and not allow the rapid and excessive expansion. Steel headed shells are a big problem in alot of O/U's. These are Rio's, Kemen, Kent, Federal Top Gun, Estates and so on. Even if the head of the shell is brass colored doesn't mean it made totally of brass. Check your shells with a magnet if you are not sure. Premium shell like Winchester AA, Remington STS and Federal Paper usually do not create the sticking problems like their steel headed counterparts.

December 27, 2007, 04:01 PM	#11
Rick-Wy. Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 6	Every steel load at home (at least 8 different brands/loads) all were steel. Same thing goes for the lead shells, except one. Some Remington Trap loads. Conclusion: If O/U's have a problems with steel, there is NOT much choice!